.224 Valkyrie? Anyone
- Thread starter TheDomFather
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Supposed to stay supersonic out to 1,300 yards, which is quite an improvement over the .223/5.56mm.
farmerboy78
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I feel it is
Skylerbone
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Varminterror
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Remember, a long seated 90grn .223rem is supersonic to about 1150. We’re talking low to mid .5 BC’s at ~2650 instead of 2500-2550 (wanna say Sierra data claims 2600).
To me, the bigger differentiation for the Valk is much like the difference in .243win and 6 creed. Speed be damned, you can buy a 6 creed with an appropriate throat and twist to shoot 105-110’s off of the shelf, maybe even the 115’s, whereas the .243’s on the market can’t all say the same. Similarly, While a 223rem CAN BE MADE to keep a 90 VLD or SMK supersonic to 1100+, you’re not going to find many of the 1:6 or 1:6.5 barrels with appropriately throated chambers to do so. The Valk’s on the market are all set to do so out of the box.
So it’s the marketing advantage of “ready off of the shelf” instead of “yeah, you could if you order a custom barrel and wait 6mos...”
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
The Faxons are shipping. Hornady as well.
Now, let's talk about Glass...
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Here are the first twenty shots from my new Valkyrie. Well the most recent seventeen, some of the first group didn't quite make it on the paper. Eight inches of correction, then left to right top then bottom. One hundred yards. I only made up twenty, in pretty large steps, to see if I even made a functioning firearm and to use my chronograph.
I was not expecting any great groups from the plastic cleaning rest and squashed nosed bullets. Evidently the seating stem is not of an optimum profile for the eighty eight grain Hornadys. And as can be seen, I was not disappointed.
It seemed to get tighter at twenty five grains of CFE Two Twenty Three. That is as high as I went. No swipe, primers pretty. Though an incomplete work up I am very happy that she fired every time and cycled with every load. (I can not say the same thing for a Radical built Four Fifty Bushmaster upper that I have since fixed.)
The empties fly forward at about two o'clock, but I have yet to adjust the Superlative Piston Gas block.
The Elftmann trigger is nice, but twice I was able to stage the trigger at a bit of creep. I will clean and inspect this. Perhaps I have to adjust it.
Twenty three and one half grains of CFE Two Twenty Three yielded an average of twenty four hundred eighty three feet per second, with a spread of ten and deviation of four.
Twenty four grains yielded an average of twenty five hundred thirty seven feet per second, with a spread of thirty six and deviation of thirteen.
Twenty four and one half grains yielded an average of twenty six hundred three feet per second, with a spread of thirteen and a deviation of seven.
And twenty five grains saw an average of twenty six hundred and fifty nine feet per second, with a spread of fourty two and a deviation of nineteen.
(Sorry for all the numbers.)
I will investigate the seating die and see if I can polish it to the bullet profile more. The Expander button was rough and I polished that. I measured a reduction of its diameter of one half thousandth, I hope that the neck tension is not now too great. I don't think the charges could be compressed, though I will look into that too.
I love the Golden Eagle! I now know what is meant by "Timing to the Heartbeat". It was strange that I require no windage adjustment after installation.
I am overall very pleased with this rifle. I was great fun getting all the parts around and putting it together. Now I'll try my best to wear it out!
I was not expecting any great groups from the plastic cleaning rest and squashed nosed bullets. Evidently the seating stem is not of an optimum profile for the eighty eight grain Hornadys. And as can be seen, I was not disappointed.
It seemed to get tighter at twenty five grains of CFE Two Twenty Three. That is as high as I went. No swipe, primers pretty. Though an incomplete work up I am very happy that she fired every time and cycled with every load. (I can not say the same thing for a Radical built Four Fifty Bushmaster upper that I have since fixed.)
The empties fly forward at about two o'clock, but I have yet to adjust the Superlative Piston Gas block.
The Elftmann trigger is nice, but twice I was able to stage the trigger at a bit of creep. I will clean and inspect this. Perhaps I have to adjust it.
Twenty three and one half grains of CFE Two Twenty Three yielded an average of twenty four hundred eighty three feet per second, with a spread of ten and deviation of four.
Twenty four grains yielded an average of twenty five hundred thirty seven feet per second, with a spread of thirty six and deviation of thirteen.
Twenty four and one half grains yielded an average of twenty six hundred three feet per second, with a spread of thirteen and a deviation of seven.
And twenty five grains saw an average of twenty six hundred and fifty nine feet per second, with a spread of fourty two and a deviation of nineteen.
(Sorry for all the numbers.)
I will investigate the seating die and see if I can polish it to the bullet profile more. The Expander button was rough and I polished that. I measured a reduction of its diameter of one half thousandth, I hope that the neck tension is not now too great. I don't think the charges could be compressed, though I will look into that too.
I love the Golden Eagle! I now know what is meant by "Timing to the Heartbeat". It was strange that I require no windage adjustment after installation.
I am overall very pleased with this rifle. I was great fun getting all the parts around and putting it together. Now I'll try my best to wear it out!
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Gtscotty
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2,659 or 2,759?
Neat rifle I'm interested to see how it groups once you get the seating die worked out.
CLP
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No, the whole point is you can load/shoot heavier/longer .224 bullets with low BC's to hit targets up 1000+ yards (90 grain load data shows they're still supersonic at 1000 yds).
The 90 grainers the service rifle folks shoot have to be fed by hand, one at a time.
I'm not going to transcribe the data, but if you're interested you can read some comparisons between 223/5.56 velocities of varying bullet weights to the 224 Valkyrie. Keep in mind they're rough comparisons because there not head-to-head.
It's really a round for long range competition folks. Some more info on windage and drop. I think there are some competition classes that are specific to the 224 caliber, so maybe those are the folks that would benefit the most from this round.
Re: mags, you get the best reliability with 6.8 SPC mags. Technically you can use STANANG mags, but you'll start to bulge them after 6-8 rounds.
Mags yes. But bolts ought not be interchanged and should be dedicated to one barrel.
I'd build or buy one if it offered me anything different or I didn't already have an SPC. I have a hard time seeing targets more than a few hundred yards away and keeping sights or crosshairs steady at long distances, so it'd be wasted on me.
I haven't compared the SAAMI specs, but the first question that pops into my mind is the SPC capable of being fed into a 224 Valkyrie chamber and being fired, resulting in similar kabooms that have occurred with 300 BLK being fed into 5.56's?
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Varminterror
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As long as the lug contact is good (which can be corrected easily at home) and the headspace is good, there’s nothing magical about matched bolts and barrels. Same applies to bolt guns. Concentric, true, and head spaced with proper lug contact isn’t magic. It’s machining.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Oops. Twenty six hundred and fifty nine.
I don't yet have a runout indicator, while they didn't look crooked, they refused to seat well and gave me a general dissatisfaction while loading. Surprisingly, the extruded tips did not affect magazine function even when as long as two and three hundred ten thousandths. I should have measured the base to ogive dimension to see if the seating depth was varying, but was confounded at the time.
I don't yet have a runout indicator, while they didn't look crooked, they refused to seat well and gave me a general dissatisfaction while loading. Surprisingly, the extruded tips did not affect magazine function even when as long as two and three hundred ten thousandths. I should have measured the base to ogive dimension to see if the seating depth was varying, but was confounded at the time.
I wonder what the barrel life will be.
It used to be that rounds were sold based on their velocity. The current wave of mass marketing is emphasizing ballistic coefficient and shots past 1000 yards. You know, 1000 yards is a long way with a rifle. Where I have shot 1000 yards, with a service rifle, we used a frame hold, because of the impossibility of seeing the bull on top of the post. Mirage effects are incredibly soupy the further you go out. So, what can you see at 1000 plus yards, and what makes you think you can hit it, and then, what makes you think you will find it?
If you want to shoot long range, you ought to get one of these:
It used to be that rounds were sold based on their velocity. The current wave of mass marketing is emphasizing ballistic coefficient and shots past 1000 yards. You know, 1000 yards is a long way with a rifle. Where I have shot 1000 yards, with a service rifle, we used a frame hold, because of the impossibility of seeing the bull on top of the post. Mirage effects are incredibly soupy the further you go out. So, what can you see at 1000 plus yards, and what makes you think you can hit it, and then, what makes you think you will find it?
If you want to shoot long range, you ought to get one of these:
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I hope it's right around the same as a Two Twenty Three. Of the very limited published data available I find it very close in charge weight, for similar bullets. Would running heavy bullets compromise barrel life?
A long ranger I am not. I got into the Valkyrie for something new. My nearest thousand yard range is over an hour away and I will need to make dope sheets to be able to use it.
I will probably never use my Four Fifty Bushmaster for its intended purpose either.
I would love to have one of those! Dang Zoning Ordinances... They are always picking on me for fireworks, too. How many windows have to be blown out before one is labeled a public nuisance?
A long ranger I am not. I got into the Valkyrie for something new. My nearest thousand yard range is over an hour away and I will need to make dope sheets to be able to use it.
I will probably never use my Four Fifty Bushmaster for its intended purpose either.
I would love to have one of those! Dang Zoning Ordinances...
They are always picking on me for fireworks, too. How many windows have to be blown out before one is labeled a public nuisance?
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Practice? No. Want of self actualization? Not right either. Adventure? Um... Should I not be trying or not thinking I can? This question is harder than I thought.
How many windows have to be blown out before one is labeled a public nuisance?
I am not an expert in this, but just one broken window will put you on the radar, so to speak.
I built a 22 x 6.8 AR-15 a couple/three years ago and am currently working on a 22 BenchRest bolt rifle. I'm kind of questioning myself if I really will have anything substantially better for prairie dogs at less than 500-600 yards than my 204 Ruger AR-15 or Savage bolt rifles.
My prairie dog shooting buddy shoots a 22-250 and we go toe-to-toe with our hits.
224 Valkyrie and 22 Nosler offer some interesting options and capabilities in AR-15s but I feel the difference is not significant to what I already have. While I would be interested in experimenting with either of them, I have too many "irons" in the fire at the present time.
For someone getting started in this class of cartridges, the 224 Valkyrie is a definite option.
(FYI, I like the AR-15 platform.)
For longer ranges, I feel other cartridges, larger caliber than .224, and rifles would be better choices.
My prairie dog shooting buddy shoots a 22-250 and we go toe-to-toe with our hits.
224 Valkyrie and 22 Nosler offer some interesting options and capabilities in AR-15s but I feel the difference is not significant to what I already have. While I would be interested in experimenting with either of them, I have too many "irons" in the fire at the present time.
For someone getting started in this class of cartridges, the 224 Valkyrie is a definite option.
(FYI, I like the AR-15 platform.)
For longer ranges, I feel other cartridges, larger caliber than .224, and rifles would be better choices.
OP
OP
TheDomFather
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.22 Nosler has had major brass issues, most of the .22 Nosler I have seen is destroying the rim of the case after 1 firing.
O/P "Mags yes. But bolts ought not be interchanged and should be dedicated to one barrel."
I am one of those strange critters that uses go-no go headspace gages on AR builds because I always did so with rebarreling old military surplus bolt action rifles. Also use Hornady's headspace comparator on brass when initially firing a rifle to get a decent idea about the chamber. I also dislike for functional reasons very tight chambers in general whether in a bolt action or a semi-auto and am willing to make a tradeoff if any exists between a looser chamber and less accuracy.
While ideally, one buys a matched barrel/bolt combo on a build with the seller checking the headspace, if one has a spare 6.8 bolt which was headspaced to a current 6.8 build, then a .224 Valkyrie build with a barrel in that caliber is a possibility. I would however use the proper headspace gages on the build which at the present are 89.00 at PTG for the entire set or 29.00 each--on a new build--only need the go and no-go (I prefer not to use cartridges (dummy) as a no-go gages because of brass compression).
Someone like Varminterror or MachIVshooter who deal with high end super accuracy builds can more specifically comment perhaps on the effects of AR bolt lug engagement etc. in response to moving a bolt from rifle barrel extension to that of another barrel. It is easy to measure engagement in traditional bolt actions but not really sure about doing it in the new variety of AR type bolts or how much good it would do you. I am sure that it could affect accuracy, especially at long range, but so can a host of other factors that could affect this in a competition or at long distance.
If I build a Valkyrie upper in a year or so, it will simply be a range toy as I have other firearms for specific purposes. I usually wait about that long on anything new as the rough edges and high prices tend to be sanded off by the market by then. After building computers for years, I learned pretty quickly that the bleeding edge represents sky high prices and perhaps too much hype when compared to actual performance. I like to think about and marinate for awhile and never jump in the pool just because of the latest, bestest, thing. Starting small and cheap has saved me a lot of money over the years. Thus, using a spare older Daniel Defense 6.8 bolt that I already have on hand makes sense. I would probably buy the headspace gages anyway for a new build.
I am one of those strange critters that uses go-no go headspace gages on AR builds because I always did so with rebarreling old military surplus bolt action rifles. Also use Hornady's headspace comparator on brass when initially firing a rifle to get a decent idea about the chamber. I also dislike for functional reasons very tight chambers in general whether in a bolt action or a semi-auto and am willing to make a tradeoff if any exists between a looser chamber and less accuracy.
While ideally, one buys a matched barrel/bolt combo on a build with the seller checking the headspace, if one has a spare 6.8 bolt which was headspaced to a current 6.8 build, then a .224 Valkyrie build with a barrel in that caliber is a possibility. I would however use the proper headspace gages on the build which at the present are 89.00 at PTG for the entire set or 29.00 each--on a new build--only need the go and no-go (I prefer not to use cartridges (dummy) as a no-go gages because of brass compression).
Someone like Varminterror or MachIVshooter who deal with high end super accuracy builds can more specifically comment perhaps on the effects of AR bolt lug engagement etc. in response to moving a bolt from rifle barrel extension to that of another barrel. It is easy to measure engagement in traditional bolt actions but not really sure about doing it in the new variety of AR type bolts or how much good it would do you. I am sure that it could affect accuracy, especially at long range, but so can a host of other factors that could affect this in a competition or at long distance.
If I build a Valkyrie upper in a year or so, it will simply be a range toy as I have other firearms for specific purposes. I usually wait about that long on anything new as the rough edges and high prices tend to be sanded off by the market by then. After building computers for years, I learned pretty quickly that the bleeding edge represents sky high prices and perhaps too much hype when compared to actual performance. I like to think about and marinate for awhile and never jump in the pool just because of the latest, bestest, thing. Starting small and cheap has saved me a lot of money over the years. Thus, using a spare older Daniel Defense 6.8 bolt that I already have on hand makes sense. I would probably buy the headspace gages anyway for a new build.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
These are still preliminary loads. Indeed, the very first fifty shots. I spent quite some time at the drill press, honing down the seating stem with a bullet and emery cloth, then cutting paste, then polish on a bullet, then polish on a Q-tip.
I then thought that the brand new brass was too rough for just OneShot sprayed on the bullets. I ran some graphite in the necks with a brush. And after an hour of cleaning up the mess
, I was rewarded with bullets that seated with normal force and no nose deformation. This was my first time doing it, but there must be another way to lube the necks.I have included a picture of the Chrono-stats, to save "Brain-ache", from my inability to elucidate numerically via keyboard.
I have no Idea what happened to the Twenty Five Grain group. There is incredible mirage at the Ha-Ha wall amid field. The bullets pass within three inches of the newly planted, and now scorched to death, field. But I am reluctant to blame it.
Twenty Five and Thirty hundredths was getting better, Stats, too. Primers look great and an adjustable Gas Block keeps the brass dribbling out on the table. No chasing necessary.
Over-all, I am pleased so far. I didn't expect to have the first load shoot like a laser. But these first groups reminded me of American Eagle fodder in my first AR, before handloading. I really hope it gets better.
Since the rifle is finished I shall continue my escapades in the Handloading section.
Varminterror
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Nosler has renovated their rim design. The only remaining “problem” is in barrels ported by folks who port them like a 223rem, instead of a 22 Nosler.
Skylerbone
Member
I ran some graphite in the necks with a brush. And after an hour of cleaning up the mess
And this is it:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012714134/frankford-arsenal-case-neck-lubricator
Order some mica to go with it:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2124290522/frankford-arsenal-fine-powdered-mica
I’ve been using my Midway branded lubricator since the ‘90s. Super simple with no real mess.
Gtscotty
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I then thought that the brand new brass was too rough for just OneShot sprayed on the bullets. I ran some graphite in the necks with a brush. And after an hour of cleaning up the mess
So you're lubing the necks prior to bullet seating, not as part of resizing?
What is the benefit of lubing the inside of case necks as part of bullet seating? I don't think I know anyone that does that.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I usually spray a bag of bullets with OneShot to avoid the deformation. They seat more easily. In my Two Twenty Three rifle I am able to hold Cartridge Base To Ogive measurements to two thousandths. This did not work with the Valkyrie. The graphite seemed to. Perhaps a VLD Chamfer tool is in the future.
I'm not a professional or anything. Just working with what I have.
If I can remember to get a shell holder next time I order dies, I may even remember to get a bushing die set too.
I'm not a professional or anything. Just working with what I have.
If I can remember to get a shell holder next time I order dies, I may even remember to get a bushing die set too.
I use the same caseneck lubricator as well,
I also prefer mica as graphite is very messy to clean up and I am a klutz sometimes.
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