.224 Valkyrie? Anyone

[CoalTrain49]

how popular would you consider the 17 Remington, 22 Hornet, 7 Dakota, 30-378 Weatherby, 257 Roberts, 7-30 waters, 7 Mauser, 221 Fireball, 17 Mach IV, 30-40 Krag, 32 Special, or any of a thousand other cartridges which can be found in production for ammo or brass, but which don’t draw much market popularity or gun magazine/online forum fanfare?

To answer your question, popular enough that an ammo manufacturer can still produce it in small quantities and sell it, but I doubt it's much of a money maker for them. I can still buy a tail light assembly for a 57 Chevy also but what does that prove. All that tells me is there's a company out there that makes parts for antique cars and prices the parts high enough to make it profitable.

We aren't talking about the past anyway. The subject is a new LRP cartridge and where it fits into the market, or if there is a market. The OP stated that he was looking for a bolt rifle and what he gets is a bunch of AR guys talking about their AR's. That doesn't surprise me though because the .224V was designed to be used in an AR with COL restrictions.

Searching for a good LRP cartridge and limiting yourself to an AR cartridge doesn't make a lot of sense to me. My guess is the LRP market will always be dominated by those last century boring bolt rifles. Most people who know anything about LRP shooting understand why.

 

[CoalTrain49]

No one who buys the Valkyrie is probably all that concerned with bargain basement bulk ammo. That is what 5.56mm uppers are for. Comparing the two based on plinking ammo costs is stupid. No one is buying a .224 Valkyrie because it can shoot cheap bulk ammo.

You're probably right. They probably aren't that concerned with ammo costs. They probably aren't that concerned with LRP either. If they were they would move on up to 6 or 6.5 mm. If a .224 were all that great for LRP everyone would be using it regardless of the rifle type.

Look at the production rifle class and what they shoot if you don't believe me. I'm not seeing any .22's in there.

$0.25/round difference in price for much longer legs, and ability to cheat the wind if you step up to the .224 Valkyrie.

That's a bunch of marketing hype. But if you feel you're "cheating the wind" with a .22 anything, go for it.

 

[Laphroaig]

I think that a lot of trepidation that some posters are experiencing is due to the exponential increase in new cartridges hitting the market. In days of yore, when Winchester and Remington ruled the roost, maybe two or 3 offerings a decade was the norm. I find it interesting that they avoided stepping on each others toes in regard to their highly successful 7mm and 300 Magnums for many decades. Nowadays its quite different with many more, often similar, cartridges being introduced every year. It does make the head spin.

Ammunition manufacturers are going to produce what sells the most. Niche cartridges with limited numbers are naturally going to take a back seat. If you handload, it might not be that big of a deal assuming you can still buy or make brass. Kind of like owning a wildcat.

 

[Varminterror]

My guess is the LRP market will always be dominated by those last century boring bolt rifles.

Show up to a PRS Gas Gun Match with your bolt gun...

Your world view is amazingly narrow. “LRP” games have existed utilizing the 223/5.56 since the 223/5.56 was created. Guys have been using low powder consumption, light recoil training rifles for as long as Long range games have existed as well. I benefit by loading something with a more similar trajectory to my main match rifle, so I can reach out with 25-30 grains of powder and get bullets into the wind rather than using 40-45, let alone 60-90grns for ELR. Guys have been poking prairie dogs out past 800yrds for generations with cartridges like 22-250 and 220swift, which have been relegated to the realm of bolt rifles. Having access to a cartridge with the range of these short action players, but wrapped in an AR-15 makes for a very satisfying field day blasting range rats.

Instead of speculating outside of your experience, read a bit about the cartridges setting records and winning matches in different long range events. If your philosophy made sense, where maximal ballistic performance was the only important metric, we wouldn’t see 6 Dashers winning over 6.5 PRC’s, or even 338 Lapuas. We’d all be shooting 416’s and 375’s for any long range work. Instead, in the real world, lower consumption, lower recoil cartridges with less-than-maximal-but-still-great ballistic performance are what you see winning matches. The Valkyrie has a strong potential to dominate AR-15 classes of G3 (glassed gas gun) benchrest matches as well as AR-15 classes in PRS type gas gun matches. Guys have “gamed” those classes with 6mm wildcats and 6.5 Grendel’s for years already, whereas a 90 grain player in 22cal has lower recoil and less powder consumption to reach the same ranges as these fatter bullet cartridges.

The niche for the Valkyrie is much wider than your narrow opinion.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The Valkyrie has a strong potential to dominate AR-15 classes of G3 (glassed gas gun) benchrest matches as well as AR-15 classes in PRS type gas gun matches. Guys have “gamed” those classes with 6mm wildcats and 6.5 Grendel’s for years already, whereas a 90 grain player in 22cal has lower recoil and less powder consumption to reach the same ranges as these fatter bullet cartridges.

You should be writing ad copy for Federal. I don't know, maybe you do.

There is no appreciable difference in powder consumption or recoil in a .224V and a Grendel. If one is that sensitive to recoil maybe they should be playing video games instead. Case capacity for both .224V and Grendel are very close. Grendel gives up a little in drift and drop at 1000 yds. 224V gives up a little as deer cartridge. Either would work fine as a varmint rifle. The big question for me would be what manufacturers are going to jump on the wagon and build parts or rifles for 224V. The market for AR's is dying a slow death with over production and new restrictions. We'll see.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I don’t think the AR market is dying a slow death. I haven’t seen any new regulations either.

Are you just delusional or so inherently biased against the AR platform that you cannot accept reality?

My guess is a bit of both based on most of your posts.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I don’t think the AR market is dying a slow death. I haven’t seen any new regulations either.

Well then you aren't paying attention.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...t-weapons-fine-those-who-keep-them/488987002/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ban-ar-15-large-capacity-magazines/495781002/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boulder-colorado-unanimously-passes-ban-on-assault-weapons/

California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts and New York all have assault weapons bans of some sort and every year the number grows. WA has one on the ballot this year that will pass.

No, I don't have any firearm biases. I own a carbine that uses a 15/30rd mag. I don't advocate for any assault weapons bans and I don't vote for any politicians that do. Strike two.

 

[Varminterror]

Only a fool recognizes the highest sales rate of AR-15’s in American history as “dying a slow death...”

 

[CoalTrain49]

Only a fool recognizes the highest sales rate of AR-15’s in American history as “dying a slow death...”

As far as I know nobody keeps any sales records of AR-15's, only rifles. What are you basing "highest sales rate of AR-15's in American history" on?

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

As far as I know nobody keeps any sales records of AR-15's, only rifles. What are you basing "highest sales rate of AR-15's in American history" on?

The NRA, which is amongst the largest, if not the largest industry association, often reports that AR15 patterned rifles are the most popular rifles in the United States. I’ve seen a statistic once Jon a time of 20% of all rifles sold are of AR15 patern.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Well then you aren't paying attention.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...t-weapons-fine-those-who-keep-them/488987002/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ban-ar-15-large-capacity-magazines/495781002/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boulder-colorado-unanimously-passes-ban-on-assault-weapons/

California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts and New York all have assault weapons bans of some sort and every year the number grows. WA has one on the ballot this year that will pass.

No, I don't have any firearm biases. I own a carbine that uses a 15/30rd mag. I don't advocate for any assault weapons bans and I don't vote for any politicians that do. Strike two.

You do understand that in many cities, laws banning guns are unconstitutional under the constitutions of those states, and that state law trumps whatever municipal laws that are passed?

Probably not, you’re clearly not firing on all cylinders.

For the most part municipal gun bans are feel good nonsense laws that don’t hold up in court in most states.

 

[CoalTrain49]

You do understand that in many cities, laws banning guns are unconstitutional under the constitutions of those states, and that state law trumps whatever municipal laws that are passed?

Yes, I understand preemption. I also understand that the legislature of those states can pass an AR ban if they wish. Once a state decides to go down that road the fed isn't going to change it. I also understand that 24 states have some type of an initiative or popular referendum process that totally goes around any legislative process. Actually SD was the first state to put that process into their constitution. I'm not saying that SD would ever have an AR ban initiative on a ballot but lots of AG proponents have used those to get AG laws on the books. They did it in this state. Once the initiative gets on the ballot millions of dollars is spent by outside AG groups to get them passed. With the last initiative here the AG groups outspent the local effort to stop it by about 30/1.

So it's a lot bigger than just preemption.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

...

Ok, so, we have CoalTrain49 down for no. Duly noted, one no for .224 Valk. Personally I find .224 interesting. I don’t have one but my brother in law recently purchased one so we’ll get to experiment with it. I’m fascinated with several of the innovative cartridges that have been developed to make the most of the AR15 patterned action. My favorite is the .277 WLV that was purpose built for hunting hogs.