22lr carry for defense??

[hso]

What do y'all think about the Keltec P17 as a defensive handgun?

Better than nothing, but not much. The .22lr is inadequate for self defense because while you can kill with a .22lr you can't "stop" an attacker as reliably as a .380, 9mm, or larger caliber. It would be much much better to try some other 30 caliber handguns than carry a mid sized .22.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Jeff Cooper said if all you have is a 22 aim for the eye sockets, the throat is another good target. That assume you can be Dick Deadeye under pressure.

 

[nettlle]

I have a small farm and sometimes use a 22 pistol to dispatch pesky critters like skunks, groundhogs, raccoons, and possums. Even as small as these animals are the range must be short and shot placement critical for humane kills. 22 LR is not for self defense.

 

[rust collector]

The gun you have is better than the gun you don't. With small guns like the LCP, however, the principal factor in having them is their compactness. An LCP is easier to carry than a P-17 due to size. Practice with one in 22 LR but carry the 32 or 380 counterpart. It will be carried much more than fired. When it is fired, recoil and report will likely not be noticed.

 

[jstert]

The gun you have is better than the gun you don't. With small guns like the LCP, however, the principal factor in having them is their compactness. An LCP is easier to carry than a P-17 due to size. Practice with one in 22 LR but carry the 32 or 380 counterpart. It will be carried much more than fired. When it is fired, recoil and report will likely not be noticed.

the recoil from a ruger lcp 380acp is way stouter than that from a keltec p17. how many new-to-firearms, one-gun, folks, especially a middle-aged suburban housewife, will practice sufficiently, say 500 rounds initially, with a lcp?

if a healthy guy who jogs for an hour everyday, has been shooting for 58 years, has $1000s invested in firearms, ammo, training, finds a lcp unfriendly, what would o.p.’s wife think?

most of us on this forum like and know firearms. we forget that some folks coming here for advice aren’t so advanced.

 

[Insignificant bill]

I have some Federal personal defense punch in a 22 handgun

 

[TTv2]

it is more about reliability. some studies evaluating .22 LR vs. other cartrdiges show it is the most effective for whatever reason in civilian use. can't explain it, but it is not innefective for self defense from what I've read about it. my opinion is just carry it, and maybe upgrade to a .38 Special revolver, or a little 380 ACP pistol at some point, just to move to more reliable centerfire. it certainly isn't going to work against you to have a .22 LR pistol if forced into a self defense situation.

Accuracy and speed can trump power because the point of self defense is to increase your odds of not being hurt or killed, not drop the attacker with the first shot with something bigger solely because it's bigger.

 

[rust collector]

the recoil from a ruger lcp 380acp is way stouter than that from a keltec p17. how many new-to-firearms, one-gun, folks, especially a middle-aged suburban housewife, will practice sufficiently, say 500 rounds initially, with a lcp?

if a healthy guy who jogs for an hour everyday, has been shooting for 58 years, has $1000s invested in firearms, ammo, training, finds a lcp unfriendly, what would o.p.’s wife think?

most of us on this forum like and know firearms. we forget that some folks coming here for advice aren’t so advanced.

This is why I suggested the LCP. It can be had in 22LR, and in 380. Practice with the 22. Carry the 380. Mine was not difficult to shoot. It was given to daughter.

 

[AK Hunter]

My main concern with the 22 long rifle for defense is the reliability of the Ignition of a rimfire. This is why I would recommend a revolver over a semi-automatic because a mishap with the ammo is instinctively corrected with a second stroke of the trigger.

The reason I wouldn't suggest .22lr for a personal protection it it just not enough power. A thick winter coat with a few shirts under it will stop it from penetrating. You would have to be almost touching the perp to get a good headshot to stop someone.

 

[Great Scot]

I’m not going to change any minds, but I carry a .22 occasionally and I’ll explain why. I’m not a police officer or solider. I see a gun as a way to get out of a terrible situation. Sometimes, my NAA .22lr is the only gun I can effectively conceal. 5 rounds of .22 at very close range will allow me to either escape from the situation, or fight a disabled opponent.

There are numerous factors that folks take into account when deciding what CCW to settle on. I think a conversation would be more constructive if contributors acknowledged someone was going to carry a .22 or nothing, and provide advice on the best way to use that .22.

Thanks for considering my thoughts.

 

[Hookeye]

I understand some folks having physical limitations.

IMHO most folks are just too cheap or lazy to put in the practice to become accustomed to minor recoil.

Its about feeling secure, not really prepping mind and body to be secure.

 

[.38 Special]

A couple of quick points...

Someone wrote that a .22 is better than a kick or a punch. I'm not even sure of that. I've seen a lot of people knocked completely out by a kick or a punch. I don't think a .22 is capable of that, short of a close-range CNS hit.

Someone else compared a .22 hit to being stabbed with an ice pick. In my paramedic days I actually ran a call where some drunk had gotten into a fight. We dropped him off in the E.R. and I was standing around in a hallway doing paperwork when the doc came out, literally grabbed me by the collar, marched me over to the patient, pointed to a hole in his chest, and said "What's that?".

Turned out the guy had been stabbed with an ice pick, and with all the abrasions and blood from his other injuries I missed it completely - and needless to say, the drunk was completely unaware of it.

In other words, a small hole partway through the body - even if it punctures something vital, like the lung of a drunk - doesn't necessarily amount to much of anything.

For my money, a .22 is slightly better than nothing - but so slightly that I strongly recommend just about anything else. It's honestly hard for me to imagine a scenario where a .22 is literally the only gun a person would be able to manage.

As always, though, I will note that the average person is extraordinarily unlikely to need a gun, and if he ever does, he is extraordinarily unlikely to need to fire it, as the mere presence is statistically likely to end the fight before it begins. In that light, a .22 is just fine - but then, so is a child's cap gun, as long as is realistic.

 

[Insignificant bill]

I think it depends on how many times the person is shot say using federal defense punch 22lr ammo. The tests show pretty decent penetration through 4 layers of denim into ballistic gel. I carry a 9mm but have a 22 loaded with federal defense punch in the bedroom as well as another 9mm and a 12 gauge shotgun also in the bedroom.

 

[jstert]

This is why I suggested the LCP. It can be had in 22LR, and in 380. Practice with the 22. Carry the 380. Mine was not difficult to shoot. It was given to daughter.

i guess we may agree to disagree. carry what you practice, both ammo and firearm, is my mantra, especially for older folks who really aren’t gun people. firing the first few rounds of a stout, much less familiar firearm could well result in initial rounds off target, and in a defense scenario that could mean collateral damage to bystanders. i wouldn’t train up a new driver in a toyota corolla on quiet suburban residential streets on a sunday morning, then toss her the keys to a porsche 911 for a monday morning beltway commute. in my own rather parallel situation, if i took away the ruger sr22 from my wife and sent her out with the s&w bodyguard 380acp, her first words would be “dear, why cant i carry the ruger, i like it…” if i were to insist, her second words would be “ok dear, then you carry the s&w, and i will just stick with you.” of course every situation is unique, and “practice light, carry heavy” could work well for o.p. hopefully o.p. will come back to tell us what worked best for them.

 

[jstert]

The reason I wouldn't suggest .22lr for a personal protection it it just not enough power. A thick winter coat with a few shirts under it will stop it from penetrating. You would have to be almost touching the perp to get a good headshot to stop someone.

actually thick coat, seeing your breathe, cold weather, seems to be a deterrent in itself for most feral bipeds likely to be encountered by a typical civilian suburbanite.

 

[GEM]

If it's all you got or physical limitations call for it, then use it. Are there other lower recoil solutions - yes. What more is there to say?

 

[nettlle]

Decades ago I was accidentally shot in the hand with a 22 hollow point. I will agree that whatever the bad guys intentions were will definitely be changed if shot with a 22 LR hollow point.

 

[AK Hunter]

actually thick coat, seeing your breathe, cold weather, seems to be a deterrent in itself for most feral bipeds likely to be encountered by a typical civilian suburbanite.

Yea I see them out all the time in winter with shorts, hoodie & flip flops. LOL

 

[Great Scot]

Decades ago I was accidentally shot in the hand with a 22 hollow point. I will agree that whatever the bad guys intentions were will definitely be changed if shot with a 22 LR hollow point.

Sorry you took a .22 to the hand. I was “liking” the sentiment, not the injury!

 

[nettlle]

Sorry you took a .22 to the hand. I was “liking” the sentiment, not the injury!

Understood.

 

[mavracer]

I recently bought a Keltec P17 and love the little gun, very accurate and so far flawless in shooting. I carry a G3c 9mm and my wife has also been practicing with my other G3c and she is thinking of carrying soon as well. After shooting the Keltec, she has fell in love with it and now wants to carry it and not the G3c. She does have some trouble with the G3c as she is recoil sensitive and doesn't like shooting it very long at a time. The Keltec, she shoots 50 rounds and wants more. What do y'all think about the Keltec P17 as a defensive handgun? Thanks for any help.

I'll tell you the same thing I'd tell her, you're extremely unlikely to need to shoot more than 50 rounds in a SD scenario and you definitely won't enjoy any of it and recoil will be the least of your worries.
The pros and cons have been hashed out ad nauseum and the decision is yours.

 

[Jim Watson]

How many rounds are you likely to shoot in practice?
More than a magazine full, maybe less than a box.

I'm going to GSSF today and 25 rounds in a Glock 43 in Pocket Division is about all the fun I want.

 

[JERRY]

The reason I wouldn't suggest .22lr for a personal protection it it just not enough power. A thick winter coat with a few shirts under it will stop it from penetrating. You would have to be almost touching the perp to get a good headshot to stop someone.

That hasn't been the case with repeated testing.

Aside from the obese, vital organs are about 4" max deep in the body.

 

[CDW4ME]

That hasn't been the case with repeated testing.

Aside from the obese, vital organs are about 4" max deep in the body.

The goal of at least 12'' penetration is because one may not have a unobstructed shot to the vitals; the bullet could have to go through a forearm first, envision attacker holding a weapon in front of them.
That said, there are 22lr bullets that can penetrate at least 12'' after heavy clothing.
Me providing the link is not indicative that I think 22lr a "good" choice for self defense, rather "better than nothing":
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-best-22lr-and-22-magnum-ammo-for-concealed-carry/

 

[WYO]

With a gun in the size range that the OP has, there are some great .380s that don’t recoil very much at all. The Sig P365-380 in .380 ACP is very mild and accurate, but there are others in that size range.

It’s been decades since I have had to carry a .22 LR for self-defense, but I shot it a lot and considered it to be a “magazine dump” gun. I broke it out a few months ago after reading a thread here and gave it a run. I watched the video that CDW4ME linked and see that my ammo is sub-optimal in this sub-optimal caliber, but that is all I had available to me at the time, and the gun was reliable with it. Today, if I had to carry a .22 LR, I would probably use the CCI SGB (small game bullet), after assuring reliability.

Mag dump (previously posted):