22LR companion gun for main carry gun?

[aarondhgraham]

I have several .22/centerfire pairs and practice with them quite often

I have several .22/centerfire pairs and practice with them quite often,,,

I have a S&W Model 36 snubby in .38 Special,,,
And a Model 34 snubby in .22 LR.




I firmly believe the reason I can hit with the Model 36,,,
Is because of the many cheaper rounds I've fired through the Model 34.

My routine is five cylinders with the .22,,,
Followed by one cylinder of the .38,,,
Rinse, lather, repeat as desired.

Same for the semi-auto pairs I own,,,
Five mags of .22 followed by a mag of centerfire.




I believe that to be ideal for training/practice.

I don't believe that conversion kits give you the same level of practice,,,
Because I like to switch back and forth several times a session.

I have one pistol with a rimfire conversion kit on it,,,
It almost never gets switched back to 9mm.

It's also very handy when introducing newbies to shooting,,,
Start them out with the .22 version of the handgun,,,
Then graduate them up to the centerfire pistol.

It's less confusing than dealing with two different pistols,,,
The manual of arms stays the same for each gun,,,
I believe this gives them some confidence.

So to answer your question,,,
It works well for me,,,
I advocate for it.

Aarond

.

 

[GoPappy]

Wow, those are four very well thought out pairs of guns. Very, very nice.

 

[Reloadron]

22LR companion gun for main carry gun?

Never gave it much thought. In addition to several 22 caliber handguns I have a Colt conversion kit I enjoy using with my 1911 guns. I like using the conversion as it keeps the weight and balance of the 1911 the same. I never felt using the conversion kit made for good practice. more a matter of just plain fun to shoot.

Ron

 

[ACP]

Well, problem solved: I bought the Buckmark Plus UDX this evening at Cabela's. It even came with a $25 rebate! I put about 150 rounds through it indoors at 25 and 50 feet, and it is much more accurate than my Ruger Mk III with the bull barrel. I even prefer the Browning factory trigger to my Ruger's aftermarket Volquartsen trigger! That Ruger will be put up for sale very soon...

Pics of my Browning pair probably tomorrow!

 

[bannockburn]

ACP

Good to hear you got the Browning Buckmark Plus UDX! Nice looking gun with a very comfortable grip.

Years ago I had a Colt Ace conversion assembly for my 1911s but accuracy and reliability with it were sadly lacking. Looked at several other decent .22 conversions (Marvel and Advantage Arms), but they were always out of stock on them. Came across the TacSol assembly, was already familiar and impressed with their Pac-Lite barrels for Ruger Mk. pistols, and decided to get one. Fit easily on an old Essex frame I had put together some time ago and made for an excellent trainer for my full size guns.

Same with the Kadet assembly for my P01; a well built unit and perfect for even lower cost use in place of shooting 9mm. ammo. While the S&W Model 34 Kit Gun isn't nearly as smooth with its DA/SA trigger as a comparable Model 17 would be, it still provides quality cross training to transition to .38 Special J frames and .357 Magnum K and L frames.

 

[Golddog]

I have three 9mm CZ 75's and a CZ Kadet (.22). The Kadet is the same size and weight as the CZ 9mm's, so it's a perfect training tool.

 

[whatever]

Sig recently came out with their p250 compact in 22lr. While I don't have a sig p250 in a defensive caliber, a DAO 22lr in a semi auto really appeals to me.

In my mind you get the benefit of cheaper practice and learn better trigger control with a da trigger. Sounds like a great way to improve your skills.

 

[ACP]

686 (has Crimson Trace grips) w/617

New Buckmark Plus UDX w/ Hi Power (has Navidrex grips)

Merry Christmas!

 

[DMK]

I've had a CZ Kadet and a Taurus 94 for a long time. A 9mm CZ75 and an S&W 642 have long been among my favorite carry guns.

I think there is great value to having the same manual of arms and a similar trigger in a 22LR gun and an EDC. This is especially true with the little J-frame as the very lightweight 642 is wicked to shoot even though it's "just a .38".

I try to shoot the 22LR guns every time I go to the range. Usually near the end of my session, where I might be developing a flinch. Overall I'll shoot something like 60-75% centerfire and 40-25% Rimfire. It reinforces sight picture and especially trigger control. With everything else being the same as the EDC guns except for removing 99% of the recoil, the 22LR guns are very conducive to accurate shooting. So with proper focus on the front site and good trigger form, it will print better on paper than the centerfire guns. If not, I'm screwing up somewhere.

They are also just a lot of fun.

One gun I'd really love to see is an S&W 22LR Shield to compliment my 9mm. (I know that S&W makes the M&P Compact 22LR, but it's not really the same as the Shield in a few significant ways)

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

The Colt 1911-22's are really nice, made by Walther. They run around $300.

 

[Ibmikey]

Carry a Sig P 938 (9mm) and for practice change the upper for a .22 conversion (regular with night sights or extended slide and adjustable sights target model) for practice. Very nice CC pistol and very versitle.

 

[Jeff22]

.22 cal "understudy" guns

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I started shooting .22 conversion units about 35 years ago, when I was a poor student. About the same time Jerry Usher had an article in (I think) the American Handgunner ANNUAL advocating the use of what he called "understudy" guns for economical practice.

During my military service I used an M-16 (three different models, actually) and carried (in order) an S&W 15 revolver, an M1911A1 and then an M9. I have personal examples of all of those guns.

Over the years I acquired a S&W 18 (.22 cal combat masterpiece), a Colt Ace (.22 on the O frame) and a Ciener and then later a Beretta “practice kit” for the M9. And an Atchisson and then a Colt conversion unit for the AR-15. In recent years I bought a S&W M&P 15-22 rifle (which works really well)

(I also have a S&W 650 in .22 to go with my S&W 60 HB 3 inch, an argentine .22 conversion unit for my Browning P35, a Sig conversion unit I bought in 2008 for my 9mm 226 & 226-DAK in .40 cal, and a Walther PPK/S in .22 that I use as a practice gun for my Walther PPK & Sig 230. I also have a S&W M&P pistol in .22. One of the current Colt marked M1911 pattern pistols is also on my list of potential purchases, depending on what happens with the availability of .22 LR ammunition)

In my military service I was an LE Specialist in the SPs in the ANG, an MP in the ARNG and then finished up back in the ANG as a CATM instructor. Back in the 80s we had access to the 50 foot indoor range at the local ARNG armory, which had a mild steel backstop and was limited to .22s. Shot thousands of rounds in there, and at the ROTC range on campus (I was enlisted, but I had a friend who was in the ROTC and he was able to get me in a few times) which was also limited to .22 because of a soft steel backstop and questionable ventilation . . .

I've done LOTS of shooting with all of them. I find it works best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. They don't have much recoil, but the balance and trigger pull and sight picture are all the same.

For practice with the bigger guns I usually use an IPSC or IDPA target or an NRA B-34 (1/2 scale) target. For the .22s I usually use the ½ scale B-34 or B-24 targets or the 1/3rd scale B-29 or TQ-16 or TQ-20 targets . I basically do my same set of drills at the same distances, but on a much smaller target. It helps a LOT to keep in tune and not spend as much money doing it.

The Ciener unit for the Beretta M9 is serviceable. The Beretta factory unit works better, and does have a hammer de-cocker/safety, just like the original.

The Ciener unit for the Glock is marginally reliable. Mine worked better after I had the chamber and the sides of the extractor where it pivots in the frame polished. If I clean it every 150 rounds or so, use good quality ammo and lube it well, it works reasonably well.

I have found the Advantage Arms conversion unit for the Glock to be a joy to shoot, provided that you use high velocity ammunition with a plated bullet. The same thing is true for the Sig conversion. As long as you run ammo with a plated bullet at 1230 fps or so, they work pretty well. With slower ammo you’ll have many failures to go fully into battery, which is aggravating.

I have the conversions for the G19 and G22 on dedicated Glock frames that I bought from Glockmeister. I tried to talk Sig into selling me a frame to put my conversion unit on, but was unsuccessful.

I bought my Atchisson conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE Magazine I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )

I also have a Ciener converter for an AK-47 . I’ve had it for years and haven’t shot it that much. And not in a long time. That sounds like a good project for this winter.

Of course, the S&W .22 revolvers are a joy to shoot. Particularly the model 18.

The Argentine conversion unit for the Browning HP is pretty good as well. Like all the rest, kept clean, lubed well and fed good quality ammo, it shoots fairly reliably. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide about 10 or 12 years ago. There was another importer as well, but I haven't seen them advertised for quite a while now)

Peter Stahl in Germany also made conversion units for the Sig P6 (M225) and various of the Smith & Wesson auto pistols. I'm not sure they were ever imported into the US in any numbers. I tried to order a .22 conversion for my S&W 39 about 20 years ago but was unsuccessful.

Years ago you’d see ads in SHOTGUN NEWS for .22 converters for the P38 pistol. I've never seen one and have no idea how well they work.

None of my conversion units for the AR platform are the least ammo sensitive.

The Colt Ace & Beretta factory conversion unit will function with anything. Sig recommends CCI mini-mags in their conversions, and I believe that Advantage Arms recommends Remington Golden Bullets.

Of course, many of the advantages to be found using a .22 for practice are negated when .22 ammo is hard to find and/or really expensive.

 

[kozak6]

A few years back, a .22 version or conversion kit would have been very appropriate.

These days, the .22 situation is somehow still stupid and you might as well just shoot handloads.

 

[Pilot]

I have the Kadet Kit that used to practically live on my 75B, and even my carry gun the 75D PCR. Then about a year or so ago I couldn't pass up a great deal on a dedicated CZ Kadet .22 pistol. It is essentially the same as the 75B with the Kadet conversion, but it is nice when I bring new shooters to the range to transition from the .22 to 9MM with no slide swap.

 

[farm23]

I have a NAA Black Widow [usually with the 22WMR cylinder] in my pocket every day and use if for varmint control. I also have a number of other 22's but the BW is easy to carry and doesn't take up much room.

 

[orionengnr]

I have an S&W M-18 that I use as a training supplement for my other K-frames, or, more frequently, as a "gateway gun" when I am introducing new shooters to the sport.

I have a Ceiner conversion for my 1911 that gets a lot of use. Perhaps the best $200 I ever spent. Every range trip it gets 50 rounds or so of use (as long as I can find .22LR ammo).