22lr for home defence.

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.22 lr is a thoroughly unacceptable choice for personal defense. Presuming you live in the United States, 12 gauge shotguns are cheap, legal, and available to the point of ubiquity. Choosing a .22 for home defense is a foolish thing to do.
 
Is anybody volunteering to test their beliefs on the .22lr being an inferior round by being shot by one?

Just curious... seems that everybody has an opinion one way or another. If I was the OP, I would do some homemade ballistics test with frozen turkeys, water jugs, or whatever else is fun to shoot, examine the results, and make your own opinions.

There are so many varying opinions here that I believe if you ask if a cannon would have enough stopping power, someone would tell you no. Some people just like to give the differing opinion just to play devils advocate.
 
Is anybody volunteering to test their beliefs on the .22lr being an inferior round by being shot by one?

I don't particularly care to be shot with a pellet gun, simunitions, air rifle, bb gun, paintball marker, or airsoft gun.

Does this mean that they are acceptable choices for self-defense weapons?
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There are so many varying opinions here that I believe if you ask if a cannon would have enough stopping power, someone would tell you no. Some people just like to give the differing opinion just to play devils advocate.

In selecting a caliber for a defensive firearm, perhaps then, it is best to go with what defensive trainers recommend. People like Louis Awerbuck, Clint Smith, Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, etc. would suggest. I doubt you'd find them suggesting the .22 LR as a wise choice for a defensive gun.
 
Let me just say after 27 years in Law Enforcement the most homicide deaths were caused By #1. 22LR #2 38Spl. #3. 32 Cal. check with ANY Law Enforcement Agency and they will tell you 22 Cal. It has a tendency to bounce around in the chest cavity bounces off ribs and causing an extremely terrible amount of damage. I'm retired now and carry a Beretta 22LR auto. I have also viewed autopsy's and seen what it does inside the body.
 
A .22 rifle in the hands of someone who knows how to use it accurately is going to do a lot more damage than a person with a 44mag who can't hit the broadside of a barn. It is all about shot placement. Imagine getting hit ten times from 10/22 within a couple of seconds, ouch. Not saying its the best thing to use by any means, but if it is what he has, it is probably going to work.
 
Let me just say after 27 years in Law Enforcement the most homicide deaths were caused By #1. 22LR #2 38Spl. #3. 32 Cal. check with ANY Law Enforcement Agency and they will tell you 22 Cal. It has a tendency to bounce around in the chest cavity bounces off ribs and causing an extremely terrible amount of damage. I'm retired now and carry a Beretta 22LR auto. I have also viewed autopsy's and seen what it does inside the body.

In the archive somewhere is a thread talking about the tendency of .22 LR to "bounce around", and a couple of medical types weighed in with their take on it. It's worth reading.

Also, while the statistics show that a majority of fatal wounds are inflicted with a .22 LR, I suspect it has more to do with the widespread and ubiquitous nature of the round rather than any sort of innately greater amount of lethality. After all, if far more people are shot with .22 than any other caliber, then it's completely reasonable to expect that the number of deaths that result would be higher than for any other caliber.

A .22 rifle in the hands of someone who knows how to use it accurately is going to do a lot more damage than a person with a 44mag who can't hit the broadside of a barn.

This is a false dichotomy that assumes two shooters of unequal skill. Even as a thought experiment for choosing a caliber, it's not useful in the least.
 
OP needs to realize: 90% or more of what your going to hear in this thread will be either anecdotal, made up, or an outright untruth. You have a lot of crap to cut through, but the good news is that there are a few good facts as well as some empirical data you can base your decision on:

1) FACT: Modern high velocity ammunition will achieve adequate penetration (12") in soft tissue, from a handgun, provided the barrel length exceeds 3". There will not however be any projectile expansion, because the velocity will not be sufficient.

2) FACT: Many of those same high velocity hollow points WILL expand at rifle velocities, while still achieving adequate penetration (12") in soft tissue. Final expanded diameters usualy range from 30 - 35 caliber. This produces a wound channel of similar depth and diameter as a 32 automatic, while providing much higher ammunition capacity in many rifles.

Unsubstantiated Anecdotes - These are things you hear constantly on the internet, and in this thread, which Nobody ever supplies any verifiable evidence to support:

1) "It will take the bad guy X number of hours to die from a .22" - This is a classic trope, and its got several glaring problems:
- Goal is not to kill the "bad guy", the goal is to end the fight.
- Shooting your attacker only once, and waiting for results is an epic tactical failure
- Any perforation and the resulting blood loss will weaken an attacker; this gives you an advantage in a altercation regardless of caliber.

2) " a .22 has no knockdown power" - Ignoring the fact that Knockdown power is a fake, meaningless buzz-word, It is a well documented fact that any practical caliber has slim to no chance of achieving the mystical "one shot stop" we hear so much about. A CNS hit is the only way to assure such a thing, even with many of the smaller centerfire rifle cartridges.

3) " a .22 won't stop a drug-crazed looney." - Again, ignoring the sociological circumstances that have historically surrounded most such documented encounters, it AGAIN becomes necessary to point out that no practical handgun round as well as many intermediate rifle cartridges have a poor track record at stopping those who are effected by high levels of stimulants.

4) "I'm a Doctor/Cop/Operator and I think the .22 is good/bad" - Thats wonderful. Maybe you are, but: this is the internet, and every gun forum mysteriously has 100 doctors and tactical operators willing to share their exploits; no offense but your "word" basically means squat if you cant provide verifiable evidence.


In the end, I'm not going to TELL you that a .22 rifle is good or bad for home defense, and I'm not going to become mired in the emotional, ego-centric blow-harding that normally surrounds this type of debate: I have supplied you with empirical facts, and pointed out the fact that few detractors ever back up their claims regarding this subject. Is the .22 adequate? that is a question only you can answer.
 
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If it's all you have a .22 fired from a RIFLE can be pretty devastating. (Yes there are better choices.. but lets assume its all you have.)

Load it with CCi Stingers. These are a hollow point that expand reliably and blow baseball sized holes in ballistic clay (that suggests a pretty impressive temporary wound cavity) while still delivering penetration. Shooters Bible did a comparison of .22 cartridges in the 80's, and the Stinger had the most impressive results.
 
Ret.CWO: check with ANY Law Enforcement Agency and they will tell you 22 Cal. It has a tendency to bounce around in the chest cavity bounces off ribs and causing an extremely terrible amount of damage

Yeah, and a .357 will shoot right through a car engine block, and the .223 tumbles in flight to buzz-saw through people, and Black Talons will pierce armor.
 
I would like to copy what i wrote on another thread yesterday, as I think its pertiant and i'm too lazy to rewrite it.

The last GSW I had, we were told it was a gunshot to the head, on the third floor of the projects. we pull up, get our stuff and start heading up the stairs. we were on the second flight when a man with a bright red tee shirt held to his head came running past us toward our ambulance. we turned around, went back down the stairs to find the man was standing by the back door of the truck, waiting for us to let him in. he had been shot in the face, by a .22 or .25. not only was he able to talk, but he could literally run 3 flights of stairs. he had an entrance wound literally right between his eyebrows and an exit by his ear. he was apparently shot at spitting distance by a man standing directly in front of him. he had powder burns on his face and everything. he was stable all the way to the hospital, and i heard that he had been discharged and was home before my shift was over that night.

after that i lost any faith in having a .22 for self defense. i don't think you can get any better shot placement than literally right between the eyes, and this man was not only not "stopped" he was only somewhat inconvenienced by the whole thing.
 
Jason, it looks like the .22's just poked a .22 caliber hole into the gel - like stabbing somebody with an 11" long fencing foil.
 
This is certainly something that you will have to decide for youself. The only way for you to do that is to do as another member stated. Which is to go out and do some testing yourself. Growing up my brother and I cut our teeth on the .22 LR hunting small game and varmints. We pretty much spent all of our free time in the woods hunting together. We learned an awful lot about the .22 LR as far as it's capabilities and performance. The area in which I live is heavily plagued with poachers, they're firearm of choice is the .22 LR. Of course that means absolutely nothing when comes to using the .22 LR in SD scenarios.

I only use the above example to say to some never under estimate the little cartridge, and never ever shrug it off as being a mere childs toy as it ain't. Not to long after being deployed one of the guys within the batallion was shot with a .22LR. The bullet entered under the sleeve (the part that goes over the shoulders) of his vest just behind his right shoulder and dang near hit his spine. I had a moment to talk with him about his experience. He said that at first he had no idea that he was hit until about 10 seconds after hearing the report of the shot. That is when he started to feel the burning sensation from the wound. He made a full recovery and is still serving with us.

Of course the .22 LR is better than nothing if that is all you have at your disposal, I would lean towards something else though. I can see how some might choose the .22 LR if they have an aversion to recoil. If that is the case I hope that they will have enough good sense to practice a lot and learn to be quick and accurate. Here is some interesting data for y'all to review, you can draw your own conclusions from it.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Federal 36 grain Copper Plated Hollow Point .html
 
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High School friend of mine, somehow he got his .22LR rifle tangled, he was pulling from the muzzle end. The rifle discharged, the bullet bounced off his spine into his heart.

He is not with us anymore.

A shooting bud of mine, his Sister decided to shoot herself in front of her ex boyfriends house. With a .22 LR pistol. A passerby heard her screaming from inside her car, and called an ambulance. Ambulance took Sister to Hospital where Doctor told her the bullet had passed through her heart and they were not going to open her up, because the heart tissue had clotted the hole.

She is with us.

I guess the rifle is a better choice than a pistol. But not by much.
 
I'm really surprised at some of the "advice" given here. A .22 is a very poor choice for any kind of defense.

I do note that the OP is from Peru, so maybe there are prohibitions on centerfire handguns and rifles. I don't know. Perhaps he'll enlighten us? But, I'll bet that he can buy a shotgun because those are allowed even in some of the most restrictive countries.

Amigo, buy a shotgun!
 
Jason, it looks like the .22's just poked a .22 caliber hole into the gel - like stabbing somebody with an 11" long fencing foil.

The stingers tore up more gel than the others. The .22 mags from my single six poked right through without expanding at all. I guess those bullets aren't designed to expand at handgun velocities.

I'm personally not inclined to comment either way on the effectiveness of the .22 LR as a defensive round.I guess I'm in the "it's better than nothing crowd".
 
It might be worth considering how many shots it would take to stop an attacker in case you ever have to explain yourself to a jury. It probably shouldn't matter; in a situation where you're justified shooting a single shell of 00 buck, you're probably also justified shooting 8 rounds or so of .22. But I can imagine an overzealous prosecutor trying to confuse the jury just on the sheer number of shots fired.

I'm not a lawyer and I have no experience in this area. But to me it's just one more reason not to use a 22 for defense.
 
As I have said before, most disasters happen because people plan to have disasters.

Right now, you're in the planning mode. If you plan to have nothing but a .22 , then that's all you'll have when the chips are down. But you can just as easily plan to have a pump shotgun -- and be far better off when the feces hits the fan
 
.22 lr is a thoroughly unacceptable choice for personal defense. Presuming you live in the United States, 12 gauge shotguns are cheap, legal, and available to the point of ubiquity. Choosing a .22 for home defense is a foolish thing to do.

Wow. And coming from a "mod", just wow.
 
Wow. And coming from a "mod", just wow.
How is that "wow" worthy. A .22 is a terrible choice for self defense and should only be carried if nothing else can be had. The mods are people just like everyone else, they are entitled to their opinion just like you. He did not call him names or act in a hostile manor, he simply said it is a foolish idea. And it is.

If all I have or can afford is a .22 then I will use it to the best of my abilities. But if I have a choice I will take something different every time. for my home I keep my 12ga and my 1911 handy at all times.
 
I wouldn't use a 22 as a primary defense means. I'd use it to backup means. First they have to get past my angry guard chihuahua.
 
BeerSleeper, teach your chihuahua how to shoot and you'll have an armed angry chihuahua.
 
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