woof
Member
How loud or not loud is this ammo? Do people use it for, say, ranges in the basement or what?
.22LR subsonic
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cat_IT_guy
Member
It is substantially quieter than hv ammo. However, there will be no doubt that the gun went off. The first time I shot some, I actually checked the barrel thinking that it may have been a squib load - it wasnt, just quieter.
I dont know about shooting .22s in the basement. Im sure some people do it with a good backstop. However, I suspect that the subsonic stuff is more often used for hunting applications where preserving meat is a priority. I also read that the subsonic stuff tends to be more accurate at long range than hv stuff because it does not become unstable when it breaks back through the sound barrier.
I dont know about shooting .22s in the basement. Im sure some people do it with a good backstop. However, I suspect that the subsonic stuff is more often used for hunting applications where preserving meat is a priority. I also read that the subsonic stuff tends to be more accurate at long range than hv stuff because it does not become unstable when it breaks back through the sound barrier.
kungfuhippie
Member
My buddy and I just bought a bunch at the Vegas gun show. 3 variety, two with primer only, and some than are 60 grain bullets with powder. As far as the powderless 20 grain rounds, it is just slightly louder than a bb gun. We shot at a backstop in his garage that consisted of a wool army blanket ontop of a thick board. IT DIDN'T MAKE IT THROUGH MORE THAN TWO LAYERS OF BLANKET!!! The 60 grain stuff has substantially higher energy (we were shooting stuff with only 6 lb/ft muzzle energy) So it's quiet, and weak. We haven't shot the heavy stuff yet so I can't report on that. I figure hotter of the two "primer only" rounds should work on sub 10 yard squirrels, but I wouldn't trust the lightest loaded stuff to even kill a mouse.
woof
Member
What I was looking at was supposedly 1020 fps but I forget the bullet weight. That is the equivalent of a high power .22 cal air rifle and they are often used for hunting squirrel and rabbit size game. So that is quite a bit more pop than what you describe. I guess as long as it is "subsonic" there will be a wide range within that category.
kungfuhippie
Member
You are describing a load that actually has gun powder in the shell, not just a primer. I haven't shot those yet, we weren't dumb enough to shoot those at a blanket backstop. What you have is much more powerful, out stuff said 600 fps and 900 fps, it's some Mexican stuff, Colabri IIRC
kungfuhippie
Member
I wouldn't use that in a basement range until I tested it at a real range. Last thing you want is to put a hole in the wall, ricochet or be too loud. This primer only stuff is very weak, I met a guy at the Vegas show that uses them in the winter in his basement for practice. I just use a bb pistol for practicing trigger discipline. Also remember the dangers of shooting ammo in a closed area (basement) Airborne lead is probably a bad thing indoors.
pdowg881
Member
The aguila subsonic I've used sounds like an air rifle, and had enough power to cycle the action on my 10/22. I've also seen and heard some zings from the ammo, so I wouldn't ever shoot the subsonic indoors. There's still the primer only stuff but i can't comment on that since I've never shot it.
The primer-fired .22lrs are the Colibri ammo. Yes, they are only primer fired, and most have not been able to cycle the action of pistols or rifles. Yes they are not very loud. No they are not the same as sub-sonic ammunition.
While the muzzle velocity is very low (~300fps?) and don't have much penetration, their fumes really stink. I don't know what goes into a Mexican primer, but shooting them indoors without adequate ventilation is not the brightest thing to do.
While the muzzle velocity is very low (~300fps?) and don't have much penetration, their fumes really stink. I don't know what goes into a Mexican primer, but shooting them indoors without adequate ventilation is not the brightest thing to do.
mudstud
Member
woof,
There is an article on the sub-sonics in the Sep 07 issue of Guns and Ammo, written by John Haviland. I found it very interesting.
There is an article on the sub-sonics in the Sep 07 issue of Guns and Ammo, written by John Haviland. I found it very interesting.
Gordon
Member
A good article that is! I shoot 4 or more bricks of 500 rounds of Remington Low Noise subsonic HPs a year . I will be trying the CCI version after reading that article. My son just bought a new Hammerelli CO2 .22 rifle. My Marlin 39 rifle is about the same in decibels, maybe slightly less, with the subsonics. My Browning Auto .22 cycles fine with them as does my Nylon 66. They are a little louder in those shorter barrels, but not much. In a pistol they pop pretty good, but the noise only carries 200 yards max. These rounds can kill humans! I have killed dogs and even goats with them well placed!
I shoot a lot of the CCI sub-sonics (40 gr), have also tried the Aguila SSS 60 gr loads, and just started trying Remington sub-sonics (38 gr?). My only .22 (a model 60) gets great accuracy with the CCI's, however, out of the last box that I picked up, about one in five rounds made it to supersonic velocity. Maybe it was just a bad run.
I haven't had this experience with the Remingtons, but I haven't shot as many.
The heavy Aguila loads shoot pretty poorly from my model 60, and don't seem any quieter than the 38 and 40 gr loads.
Most importantly, the 40 gr CCI's kill starlings right dead within 100 yds, with minimal hold-over.
Freakin' Shakespeare.
Oh yeah - volume. I wouldn't feel that any of these would be pleasant (or particularly wise) to fire indoors. They're definitely quieter than a supersonic load, but still have enough punch to ricochette, and the only noise difference I really notice is the lack of the supersonic crack.
I haven't had this experience with the Remingtons, but I haven't shot as many.
The heavy Aguila loads shoot pretty poorly from my model 60, and don't seem any quieter than the 38 and 40 gr loads.
Most importantly, the 40 gr CCI's kill starlings right dead within 100 yds, with minimal hold-over.
Freakin' Shakespeare.
Oh yeah - volume. I wouldn't feel that any of these would be pleasant (or particularly wise) to fire indoors. They're definitely quieter than a supersonic load, but still have enough punch to ricochette, and the only noise difference I really notice is the lack of the supersonic crack.
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rangerruck
Member
if you wanna shoot indoors, use Aguila colibri's or super colibri's. primer fired only, they are slower than most airrifle or bb gun shots.
I found with the CCI greentag subsonic I was able to actually shoot indoors without hearing protection. There was no 'ringing' in my ears using it, however I would not suggest doing the same indoors 
Outdoors I really don't think that there would be a problem at all regarding hearing loss.
Outdoors I really don't think that there would be a problem at all regarding hearing loss.
I love the subsonic rem stuff, I plink with it. It's way quiet compared to reg 22LR, but not bb gun quiet... Still makes noise, just no crackle going down range. The only reason I plink with it is because it's more accurate than regular cheap brick ammo, but it's still cheap. Great stuff.
I need to get some subsonics - moved into a new house and have ducks and geese right outside my backyard fence. Might be easier than sitting in the cold trying to call them in. Head shot at that range (<25yrds) should be easy.
I still think its loud enough for someone to call the cops so you might want to hold off on that..
I still think its loud enough for someone to call the cops so you might want to hold off on that..
bhk
Member
I use Remington Subsonics, CCI subsonics, and (mostly) Lapua subsonic hollow points because they are extremely accurate in my squirrel rifles, are very effective, and are quiet. I can't see any sense in making a big bang when a pop will do the job. They usually run the same velocity as premium target ammo and can be very accurate.
I also have tried the Aguila Super Colibris, and these are a totally different animal (and not to be confused with normal subsonic 22 ammo that travels just beneath the speed of sound). The Colibris have no gun powder and travel only about 500 ft per second. Some catalogues indicate they are for handguns only as they may stick in the bore of long guns. I have fired them from rifles with no problem (sounds like a bb gun) and from revolvers (just at the threshold for needing hearing protection). They might be just the ticket for plinking off a semi rural patio or deck. I wouldn't want to shoot many inside because the same lead poisoning issues would apply as with any other ammo.
I also have tried the Aguila Super Colibris, and these are a totally different animal (and not to be confused with normal subsonic 22 ammo that travels just beneath the speed of sound). The Colibris have no gun powder and travel only about 500 ft per second. Some catalogues indicate they are for handguns only as they may stick in the bore of long guns. I have fired them from rifles with no problem (sounds like a bb gun) and from revolvers (just at the threshold for needing hearing protection). They might be just the ticket for plinking off a semi rural patio or deck. I wouldn't want to shoot many inside because the same lead poisoning issues would apply as with any other ammo.
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JonB,
Those are migratory birds you're talking about. Most states have serious regs regarding what you can hunt them with. Many do not allow them to be hunted with a rifle. Check before you consider this (I'm assuming it's legal to discharge a firearm where you live???). Many would also call into question the sportsmanship of shooting a bird (that wasn't a turkey) when NOT in flight (blackbirds/starlings also excluded).
Those are migratory birds you're talking about. Most states have serious regs regarding what you can hunt them with. Many do not allow them to be hunted with a rifle. Check before you consider this (I'm assuming it's legal to discharge a firearm where you live???). Many would also call into question the sportsmanship of shooting a bird (that wasn't a turkey) when NOT in flight (blackbirds/starlings also excluded).
bhk
Member
Double post - sorry
BG Prairie Dog Slayer
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The article is good... and absolutely correct on teh air-pressure preventing instability for accuracy. The thing is... the sub's don't have the ooomph to do any .22 100+ yds with any predictability (from my findings). I shoot a 10/22 that's been suped-up with a Green Mountain .920 20" barrel and a 3-9 Bushnel scope. I just did a trigger job... nice & light... it's a nail-driver, but the Winchester Wildcat loads are what it prefers... that's been my tightest goupings at 100 & 150 yds.
LotI
Member
Subsonics are a little too loud to shoot indoors without hearing protection. Out of my CZ with a 26" barrel it's still too loud for urban pests.
Both my guns prefer the Eley Subsonic Hollow Xtra but are very accurate with the CCI. I wen't on a mission last year to find the best subsonic hollow-point. I tried: Eley; CCI; Remington; Lapua; RWS; & Aguila. Most round-nose target ammo is subsonic like Wolf, Winchester T-22 and almost the entire Eley line.
The CCI have a very long bullet and sometimes won't let the bolt close completely in my Adams & Bennett 10/22. They require a firm push on the CZ bolt to get it closed too. If I eject an unfired round I can see they are in the rifling. This is great for accuracy but not great for cycling the actions smoothly.
The Remingtons have gone supersonic out of my 18" 10/22 so they are borderline depending on temperature/altitude/humidity. I have a couple of bricks to play with since they were cheap at $18, but aren't there accuracy-wise.
I find it much more pleasurable to shoot the subsonic and accuracy is top-notch. I would have no ethical issue dispatching a squirrel or rabbit out to 100 yards.
CB longs are quiet enough but aren't as accurate for many reasons...but they're fun to shoot!
Both my guns prefer the Eley Subsonic Hollow Xtra but are very accurate with the CCI. I wen't on a mission last year to find the best subsonic hollow-point. I tried: Eley; CCI; Remington; Lapua; RWS; & Aguila. Most round-nose target ammo is subsonic like Wolf, Winchester T-22 and almost the entire Eley line.
The CCI have a very long bullet and sometimes won't let the bolt close completely in my Adams & Bennett 10/22. They require a firm push on the CZ bolt to get it closed too. If I eject an unfired round I can see they are in the rifling. This is great for accuracy but not great for cycling the actions smoothly.
The Remingtons have gone supersonic out of my 18" 10/22 so they are borderline depending on temperature/altitude/humidity. I have a couple of bricks to play with since they were cheap at $18, but aren't there accuracy-wise.
I find it much more pleasurable to shoot the subsonic and accuracy is top-notch. I would have no ethical issue dispatching a squirrel or rabbit out to 100 yards.
CB longs are quiet enough but aren't as accurate for many reasons...but they're fun to shoot!
aspade
Member
LotI, have you tried PMC Moderators? They are the quietest subsonic I have used, much quieter than the CCI load although still not in CB long territory.
LotI
Member
aspade said:
If PMC/Eldorado were still in business, I would have tried them! I still have half a box of Match Rifle and, while browsing through the local hardware store last week, now own a box of Scoremasters for $1.99. Otherwise I haven't seen anything for over a year.
If you have some, want to trade for some Eley's?
aspade
Member
I didn't know that, I bought a case from Natchez about two years ago and that's still going so I hadn't considered its availability since. I am going to see if I can locate any online shops which still have any and buy another case or two, if I find a place that stocks it I'll shoot you a PM.
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