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25 cent trigger job on Glocks...

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by SomeKid, Dec 16, 2005.

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  1. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    The 25c job is where you lighten the pull to 3.5lb and get rid of the slack, right?

    What I want to know, is why do they call it 25c job, if the piece you have to buy to replace the stock part costs $15?
     
  2. xingr8

    xingr8 Member

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    Although changing out the Glock connector to a 3.5 lb model is often done at the same time as a $.25 trigger job, it is not really part of it. The $.25 job is called that because it only involves polishing certain parts where the only cost is the polishing compound. The $.25 job does not reduce slack, pre-travel or post-travel. All it does is make the trigger movement smoother or less gritty feeling. It doesn't really lighten the trigger pull much either, unless it is a really rough one to begin with. Smoothing things out can make it feel lighter, though.

    Switching to a 3.5 lb connector will lighten the trigger pull a couple of pounds or so, but will also slightly lengthen the trigger pull. One of the good things about Glocks is that they are so easy to work on compared to most other guns.
     
  3. WarMachine

    WarMachine Member

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    From the site: http://www.alpharubicon.com/mrpoyz/glock/

    The gun is now completely disassembled. If you want to go the de-luxe route (and blow the $0.25 budget. I know I did...), replace the standard 5.5 lb trigger connector with a 3.5lb one.

    As the above poster said, the new connector is optional.
     
  4. gudel

    gudel Member

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    does it really cost 25 cents?
    I've tried the 3, 5 and 8. I like the 5 better.
     
  5. wally

    wally Member

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    With the 3.5 connectors I can finally hit well enough with my Glocks (17 & 21) to not embarrass myself, but I guestion if the 3.5lb connector is safe for carry.

    Mine are strictly range guns (safe queens mostly these days) so its not an issue for me, but should be considered before the "Glocks are so easy to work on" crowd starts messing with things.

    --wally.
     
  6. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Why would a 3.5# connector make a Glock unsafe to carry? It doesn't affect any of the safety systems.

    - Chris
     
  7. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I go with Wally.

    Regardless of what particular make or model of handgun, if you get into the stress of a potential or actual shooting situation an extra-light trigger pull is not a good thing to have. In more then one instance a subject who was being covered has been unjustifiably shot when somebody touched the trigger and pulled with more force then intended.

    But ya' shouldn't touch the trigger, right?? Sure, but we're talking about how things work on the mean streets and not a shooting range.

    Back when revolvers were carried, many police departments had them modified to double-action-only, or bought them that way in the first place. When they went to automatics they often bought DAO pistols too. Those that use Glocks today usually specify 5 1/2 pounds or more.

    To smooth the trigger is one thing. To lighten it on a weapon is stupid, and can get one in all kinds of trouble - during and after a shooting incident.

    On the other hand, if a pistol is used exclusively on a shooting range the situation may be entirely different.
     
  8. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    First, let me correct a common misconception. Installing a 3.5# connector into a Glock pistol does not reduce the trigger pull weight to 3.5 pounds. Assuming you change nothing else, a 3.5# connector yields a 4.5-5.0# two-stage trigger pull.

    Second, let me correct another common misconception. A 3.5# trigger is hardly "extra-light." My match Glock has a 1.75# trigger by my scale. That's extra-light, and believe me, you can tell the difference.

    The implication here is, "It's okay to violate the four rules of safe gun handling if you're in a life-or-death situation." No. I don't accept that, on the street, at the range, getting a massage, wherever. The four rules are inviolate, and people who cannot accomodate them should not be carrying guns at all.

    - Chris
     
  9. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

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    Per Chris's logical, cogent response, if you're going to screw up with a 4.5#-5# trigger, you'd probably also have screwed up, under the same circumstances, with a 6# trigger.
     
  10. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I said nothing of the kind! My point was that under the substantial stress of a shooting situation a mistake sometimes happens with a lighter trigger pull then might not be the case with a heavier one. Because of this many if not most law enforcement agencies specify heavier trigger pulls.

    Agreed... But are we going to discuss what should be, or what too often is the reality?

    One problem with the Glock pistol is that once you touch the trigger, additional pressure will cause it to go "bang!" This is both good and bad. If the user is well trained and practiced enough so they do the "right thing," even under stress, the system offers some real advantages. If they are not (and in real life that is too often the case) you have a high potential for a N.D. If you add a lighter trigger pull to the picture the liability goes way up.

    If such an incident does occur the "shooter" may face some serious criminal charges, and civil suits won't be far behind. If it is found that the trigger pull has been both lightened and "polished" some lawyers will have a field day.

    Again you miss my point. Glock usually installs the 5 1/2 pound triggers (regardless of the actual weight) in their service pistols. and they do so for good reasons. Some police departments don't find this to be heavy enough (New York City for example). Could it be they have some reasons too?
     
  11. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    The only way that such a "mistake" can be made is if the shooter is violating Rule #3, and maybe Rule #2. That is a training problem, not an equipment problem.

    I prefer to assume that people who carry guns will avail themselves of enough training to avoid these kind of mistakes. If they don't, well, goodbye, good luck, and I hope we never cross paths.

    Their reasons may be good and sufficent for some, but I prefer a lighter trigger on my defensive guns, for equally good reasons (namely that I like to hit what I'm shooting at.)

    Also, you're still mixing up connector weight and trigger weight. The three connector weights are 3.5, 5, and 8 pound. Glock factory triggers usually show up at around 6.0-7.0 pounds out of the box (assuming a 5# connector and standard-weight trigger spring.)

    It's probably worth mentioning that my carry/defense Glock 19 has the 5# connector in place. The 3.5# connector lightens the pull a little, but also adds a noticable amount of creep to the second stage. Given the choice, I'd prefer a somewhat heavier, but crisp second stage release. There are other ways to lighten the trigger weight, some of which I have taken advantage of.

    - Chris
     
  12. hnm201

    hnm201 Member

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    it's called the $0.25 trigger job because it costs about 25 cents worth of simichrome or flitz to get the job done and you don't need any special tools. just a punch to remove the pins from the Glock frame and a shop towel to do the polishing.

    Chris, thank you for doing your part to reduce THR's FUD factor regarding the Glock 3.5lb connector and the stock trigger pull weight. I know that the effort seems futile at times but keep fighting the good fight. I would only add that the Glock's trigger pull weight is most effected by the configuration of three parts: the connector, the trigger spring and striker spring and that the connector alone doesn't determine the trigger pull weight.


    I'm confused. In this respect, how is the Glock's trigger different from other pistols' triggers (aside from 1011/XD grip safety engagement). Why would one touch the trigger before disengaging the thumb safety, if it is present?

    FWIW: a glock with a proper ".25 cent trigger job" and a 3.5# oem glock connector installed (polished, but not significantly modified) will have a trigger that breaks around 4.2# to 4.5#, which imho is ok for carry or comp.

    I also tend to use 3.5 connectors in my game guns and 5lbs connectors in my carry guns.

    Actually, they install 5.5# connectors in their service pistols. Glock created the NY trigger springs because there was a market demand for it. The police departments that don't find the glocks with 5.5 connectors and their resulting ~6.5# trigger pull to be heavy enough should either reissue DA only revolvers or teach some proper trigger hygiene.
     
  13. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I would tend to agree, but there is a problem never-the less, and it has a potential to become a big legal one following a shooting.

    Again you may (or may not) be right, but on The High Road we try to explain the pitfalls rather then leave others to their fate. SomeKid is looking for some advice and answers, and I presume he is getting some.

    You'd better bet that these police departments and other law enforcement agencies have "good and sufficient reasons," and that's why I brought them up. But because you prefer a lighter trigger pull (and apparently need one because you like to hit what (you're) shooting at) doesn't necessarily mean that your solution is the best advise for "SomeKid" or others who are following along.

    There are many issues involved, and I am presenting some of them, while you are offering others - which you have a perfect right too do. So long as all views on the subject are fairly presented we'll be on the right track.
     
  14. Sactown

    Sactown Member

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    I did the .25 cent job and also installed a 3.5 Ghost connectoer. I do not feel the trigger is light by any means. I would feel perfectly safe using it as a carry gun.
     
  15. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    So lemme' see if I udderstand this correctly..................A 2 1/2 to 3 lb. trigger is okay to have on a custom tuned and tweeked 1911, but it's not okay on a Glock?:confused: :scrutiny:

    Wouldn't the booger hook/bang switch philosophy apply to both?
     
  16. Arethusa

    Arethusa Member

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    No one (sane) carries a cocked and unlocked 1911. A Glock with a 3lb trigger pull is very nearly a single action pistol without a safety.
     
  17. ChuckB

    ChuckB Member

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    I have a 3.5# connector in my G19. The trigger pull measures a consistent 4.75#, and is crisp. The factory "5.5#" trigger often measures out at a fair amount heavier than marked. I like mine now, and feel comfortable, accurate, and safe with it.

    Chuck
     
  18. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    Uhmmm...............3 passive safeties have to be overcome to fire a Glock no matter what trigger connector you have installed. First of which absolutely requires you having to wrap your booger hook around the trigger. In other words, if you don't want it to fire, exercise a bit of trigger discipline.:scrutiny:
     
  19. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    stevelyn:


    Oh you are absolutely right of course...

    But ya' know, not everybody is a cool and collected as you guys are if someone is shooting at them... :scrutiny: :D
     
  20. middy

    middy Member

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    So it's easy to become flustered and pull the trigger accidentally with a Glock, but nobody becomes flustered and forgets to click the safety off a 1911? Or takes the safety off right away and then has an even more likely ND with the 1911 trigger?
     
  21. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    If the 1911 style pistol has a 5 to 6 pound trigger pull (which is both Colt and USGI standard for service pistols) I'd say that it would be close to a stock Glock or heavier.

    But at least one would have the option of using a safety that wasn't mounted on the trigger face.

    If they had one of most models made by SIG, Beretta, S&W, H&K or Ruger they have both a manual safety (or decocker) and a first-shot trigger pull of around 8 pounds or more, (mostly more).

    Of course one could have had the trigger pull reduced on any of these guns by switching out springs, polishing the lockwork, or whatever...

    But that after all is much of what this discussion is about... :)
     
  22. WarMachine

    WarMachine Member

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    Oh my...

    A loaded and chambered gun should fire when you pull the trigger. That's the trigger's duty, and the gun's job. If you don't want the gun to fire don't pull the trigger. Claiming any gun in unsafe due solely to poor trigger discipline is an invalid argument. Even if stress is added in the equation and an AD/ND occurs, it's not the fault of the gun unless it's malfunctioning.

    I have never been in a sitution where I had my gun drawn and my life was in imminent danger, but if under stress I accidentally pulled the trigger and killed someone in an unjustified shooting, it would be 100% my fault and I would have to face the consequences.

    A heavy trigger and safety are not the cure for someone who is unable to practice proper trigger discipline. Training is...

    I'm not trying to sound like so armchair commando (as I know my thought processes would go to **** when my life was in danger like nearly everyone else). But I truly believe that if I was trained accordingly to handle such situations, I would have more faith in my own resolve.

    Just my $.25 ;)
     
  23. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    War Machine:

    Your points about training are well taken and received. But in the real world relatively few individuals receive the kind of training or practice that will carry them through an actual shooting experience, and this is not a good place to get on-the-job training.

    Many of our own forum members practice far more then the average police officer, and are much more likely to be concerned about their skill-at-arms. Unfortunately we cannot view the overall picture and base our perspectives on what "our own" represent in the way of expertise. There is too great gap between what should be, and what is.

    Some of you who have posted on this thread might be surprised to learn that I am acquainted with Gaston Glock, and have known him for many years. So many in fact that I was one of the first to recognize the merits of his pistol when others were denouncing it as a terrorist’s tool, that could be easily smuggled onto airplanes because of its plastic construction. I am well aware of both its strong and weak points, and the absolute necessity that users be motivated, intelligent, trained and practiced in its use.

    I am equally aware that too many who are carry the Glock pistol do not meet the above description.

    A heavier trigger pull is not a complete solution to problems concerning unintentional or negligent discharges cased by user ignorance or incompetence, and no mechanical modifications are likely to be so.

    But it is a start, and an easily achievable one.
     
  24. SparxSP

    SparxSP Member

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    I know that this thread is ancient history, but Google brought me to it....what can I say?....
    Old Fuff, if you're still hangin' out on the site, you are the wise one here. I am not saying that anyone else here is dumb by any means, I just think that the reality of the heat of the (real life shooting) moment is being highly underestimated by the others. I cannot read articles from those who have been there, sometimes repeatedly, that do not say that you're lucky if you can even remember how many shots you fired, much less at what point they actually put their finger on the trigger. I do not dismiss proper training at all, quite the contrary, but the reality is, there is much evidence & history to support the demand for DAO weapons by the military, and local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies alike.
    I, for one, have begun shying away from traditional DA autos for daily carry. As for my Glocks, I have begun the transition on them all to the NY 8# spring, coupled with the 3.5 connector. I do not yet have a triger gauge with which to test them, but they feel noticeably heavier than stock, but with a vastly improved crisp "break".
    Just my opinion, and absolutely no disrespect is intended toward anyone else herein.
    Thanks for listening, Sparks
     
  25. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    The Old Fuff is still around, although some may view the word "hanging" in a different context. :D

    But I still stand on what I said then. If one can master a 8 to 10 pound double action trigger pull on a revolver they can do the same on a pistol.
     
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