250 Grain Hornady FTX in .45 Colt?

[Savage30L]

I have a number of firearms in .45 Long Colt, including a Marlin 1895 Cowboy (24" barrel) and a couple of Ruger Vaquero Bisleys. I'd like to try these with Hornady 250 gr. Flex Tips loads for both hunting and defense (hunting loads for the Marlin only). I was thinking along the lines of 10 grains of Unique for the revolvers. Has anyone here tried this? I can't find any load recommendations for the 250-gr FTX in any of the manuals or online load data sites.

There is a lot of discussion about the 225-gr FTX in both revolvers and rifles, much of which centers around trimming the case length. I wonder how much I'd have to trim, for Ruger or Marlin use, with the 250 grainers. If it's a lot for the revolvers, it might not be worth pursuing, as I also to plan to load 250 grain XTP for the Rugers (and any pet load sharing would be appreciated).

For the Marlin, I'd like to push the bullet fast enough to consider it for short range deer hunting (I hunt in the thick stuff, and almost never have a shot opportunity beyond 40 yards). Unfortunately I can't find any load info for that bullet in .45 Colt in a 24" Marlin. I'd like to push the bullet to 1600 fps....is that realistic? I have some uber-hot Buffalo Bore 325-gr LBT-LFN to hunt with, but I'm not certain how much of that I want to use. As short-range as my hunting is, 1400 fps would probably work with the Marlin and the FTX, if I had to go that low.

I'd like to try that rifle in a hunting situation. I used to use it for Cowboy action and loved it. I bought it used, and the previous owner had apparently gotten a competent gunsmith to slick up the action for competition, and it is a very sweet gun. The trigger pull is light and crisp, and it's a joy to shoot.

 

[bigpower491]

The case trimming put me off using the FTX. But you already know because of the bullets longer ogive it is a requirement.
The 250 XTP is a good bullet that requires none of that nonsense and works quite well within it velocity range. I shoot a Ruger Only load of #9 with it in a Super Redhawk, and it does the job. The upper end of its velocity range is 1600 fps, so if 1400 is your low number, you might want to consider the XTP Mag 240.
I said this before in another recent thread and I'll say it again... don't need much more than 850fps with a 45 Colt to put a deer down like Earl Anthony rolled a 400 pound bowling ball over it. At 40 yards, no problem.
To get to 1600fps, you're gonna need something quite a bit slower than Unique
Edit: Ahh I see Unique for the revolvers.
As far as Ruger Only for your rifle, I'd keep whatever you choose on the light side with that 250 XTP, due to its 1600fps max. I'm getting close to 1300 with 19.5 gr of Accurate 9 out of a Super Red 454 shooting that hot 45 Colt load. That's a 7.5 inch barrel

 

[Savage30L]

What would you think would be required as a minimum velocity for the 250-gr FTX for expansion on deer-sized game? I'm happy to drop lower if I get good expansion.

I'll say, though, that I've killed a few deer using a .490 patched round ball, which doesn't expand much at all, so maybe I'm overplaying the expansion bit. Deer aren't all that hard to kill if you shoot them in the lungs.

 

[bigpower491]

850 muzzle should be just fine. I honestly shoot lead at 30 yrd and in here at the farm. You seen what your patched ball from your front stuffer will do.
It's when you start getting that 250 up to its upper limits. You may have them shed the jacket you start pushing the limit and beyond. Not toooo big a deal for deer, but depending on where those little pieces go after might be a drag

 

[Savage30L]

Thanks. A little more research online shows Marlin owners getting good result with H110 for .45 Colt hunting loads...I'm getting the newest Lyman manual shipped to me, maybe I'll get some good loads there.

After buying those FTX bullets I discover that those are meant mostly for the .450 Bushmaster, rather than the .45 Colt. Maybe I can trade them to someone for other hunting bullets.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Why trim the case? I have loaded up 285 grain bullets in my 45 colt. They both worked fine in my revolver and lever action.

 

[bigpower491]

Why trim the case? I have loaded up 285 grain bullets in my 45 colt. They both worked fine in my revolver and lever action.

The Hornady FTX bullets have a longer ogive than other bullets Al, iti believe is a requirement to keep the OAL short enough for them to chamber.
I said no to that thought myself, and after seeing the performance with the 250 FTX out of several 450 rifles on deer, I'm thinking of ditching it myself for the rifle and using a 300 XTP Mag.
H110 is great for full power loads, but that's just it upper levels. It doesn't download well, leaving one with no flexibility. You shoot the upper levels or nothing with it

 

[Savage30L]

I said no to that thought myself, and after seeing the performance with the 250 FTX out of several 450 rifles on deer, I'm thinking of ditching it myself for the rifle and using a 300 XTP Mag.

Out of curiosity, what were those results on deer? I find that sort of thing very interesting....and I'm curious about the flex-tip bullets generally.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I was thinking of XTP. I just looked up the FTX.I see they are a rifle bullet. My error.

 

[bigpower491]

Out of curiosity, what were those results on deer? I find that sort of thing very interesting....and I'm curious about the flex-tip bullets generally.

My opinion of the FTX .452 diameter bullet pertains mainly to the it's use in the 450 Bushmaster. I live in Southern Michigan farm country, and alot of people hunt with the 450 in one configuration or another, but mainly a bolt gun. The advertised velocity of 2200fps mv puts it on the doorstep of its upper limit.
Now over the past few yrs I've admired quite a few successful harvest, but one thing alot of them, not all, but more than enough, had in common was the hunter found fairly good sized pieces of jacket inside the animal. Now I realize that kind of thing isn't totally unusual, and I believe it has alot to do with the velocities and the average range that most of those deer were shot at. Most within 60 some as far as 100. I had a guy at the shop bring me a totally destroyed 250 FTX that he recovered from his last harvest. I just don't think they're constructed all that well for the cartridge they were designed for. There's been more than a couple the hunter never found , although blood and hair were found at the point of impact. Bad hit, good hit, you never get a straight story, but it got me to thinking, maybe hit a shoulder and the bullet broke up without breaking thru to the vitals.
@CoalCrackerAl brings up the fact they're marketed as rifle bullets. The 45 cal FTX is more of a handgun type if ya ask me.
Shooting in a 45 Colt rifle that can handle the high pressure loads, I wouldn't think you would have a problem with them, especially losing .060 of case space from having to trim. Less case, less powder, less go go. Not familiar loading 45 Colt rifle, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you would probably still have to trim the case to make OAL with these particular. My personal opinion on that is to find another bullet. The slight gain in external ballistics isn't going to make much difference at the range you're hunting at. Not worth the effort of cutting the cases down IMO

 

[Bartojc]

Now over the past few yrs I've admired quite a few successful harvest, but one thing alot of them, not all, but more than enough, had in common was the hunter found fairly good sized pieces of jacket inside the animal. Now I realize that kind of thing isn't totally unusual, and I believe it has alot to do with the velocities and the average range that most of those deer were shot at. Most within 60 some as far as 100. I had a guy at the shop bring me a totally destroyed 250 FTX that he recovered from his last harvest. I just don't think they're constructed all that well for the cartridge they were designed for.

I am also from MI. In the past 4 years I've witnessed similar things. Two of my hunting companions have taken deer with .450 BM and FTX bullets. Both bullets shed the jacket or pieces of it. They were both shot at less than 100 yards. Both ran very little but it made me wonder how well they were really constructed. One other friend took a large late season doe a year ago and claims the bullet "exploded" inside the deer. His words not mine, but he processed the animal himself so he should know what it liked like. I myself use the FTX for my .450 but have never taken an animal with it.

I'm sure the FTX would be fine at 45 Colt velocities as .450BM is up at 2200 ish MV.

-Jeff

 

[Savage30L]

I am also from MI. In the past 4 years I've witnessed similar things. Two of my hunting companions have taken deer with .450 BM and FTX bullets. Both bullets shed the jacket or pieces of it. They were both shot at less than 100 yards. Both ran very little but it made me wonder how well they were really constructed. One other friend took a large late season doe a year ago and claims the bullet "exploded" inside the deer. His words not mine, but he processed the animal himself so he should know what it liked like. I myself use the FTX for my .450 but have never taken an animal with it.

I'm sure the FTX would be fine at 45 Colt velocities as .450BM is up at 2200 ish MV.

-Jeff

That's interesting (and a bit discouraging) to hear. One of my motivations for wanting to try hunting deer with a .45 Colt is to avoid the phenomenon of exploding bullets. Of late I've been hunting with a 30-06 and Federal 150-grain Nosler ballistic tips....they hit a deer like a rifle grenade, explode, and cause too much meat damage. The last deer I shot with that load, I had to shoot frontally into the brisket (the deer was facing me and wouldn't turn broadside). The bullet liquefied the heart and lungs....nothing left but goo...and it also destroyed the left front shoulder completely, shredded meat and bone fragments inside the skin....I had to throw away that whole leg, and I hate to waste meat.

Maybe I should just go back to shotgun slugs.

ETA: My FTX and XTP 250-grain bullets came in today. I still want to try these but am having a hard time finding charge weight recommendations for any powder I can actually acquire at the moment.

 

[Bartojc]

One of my motivations for wanting to try hunting deer with a .45 Colt is to avoid the phenomenon of exploding bullets.

They'd likely be fine at 45 Colt velocities.

I too am looking to find a hunting load in 45 Colt. For my purposes it woul dbe a rifle. For the most part I've just used lead or coated lead at standard 45 Colt velocity. I do plan to try some Hornady XTP and maybe FTX as well.

-Jeff

 

[Savage30L]

They'd likely be fine at 45 Colt velocities.

I too am looking to find a hunting load in 45 Colt. For my purposes it woul dbe a rifle. For the most part I've just used lead or coated lead at standard 45 Colt velocity. I do plan to try some Hornady XTP and maybe FTX as well.

-Jeff

Which powder(s) do you intend to use? I have some H110 but can't find recs for it with those projectiles. I'm looking for Win231 (scarce as hen's teeth) and should have some 2400 in a few days (can't find any load data for that combo either).

 

[Roverguy]

The 250FTX doesn’t do that well at @2200 fps and sub 100 yard ranges. Have used them on hogs in a 454 Casull carbine and they don’t hold up well.

I would have no reservations using them in @23,000 psi and below 45 Colt loads.

 

[Bartojc]

Which powder(s) do you intend to use? I have some H110 but can't find recs for it with those projectiles. I'm looking for Win231 (scarce as hen's teeth) and should have some 2400 in a few days (can't find any load data for that combo either).

I have W231 and Unique on hand and have started there. More concerned with accuracy than velocity. I'd be looking at max range of 75 yards.

-Jeff

 

[bigpower491]

That's the reason I've been loading the FTX down in my Ruger American. About 1700 fps is as far as I can get it down so far and still get some level of consistency. I absolutely agree that they would be fine at 45 Colt velocities, I'm just not a fan of trimming an extra .060 off the cases. They're only good for 1 thing after that, and should it not work out to ones liking, they're scrap.
That's just me tho.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Bartojc mentined using cast or coated cast bullets in his .45 Colt rifle. At the distance OP is refering to, that seems to be a good choice. MV fps is the same as the XTP's.
No jacket to think about. But, those XTP's are a very good bullet. Sorry, no help on FTX.

 

[bigpower491]

Bartojc mentined using cast or coated cast bullets in his .45 Colt rifle. At the distance OP is refering to, that seems to be a good choice. MV fps is the same as the XTP's.
No jacket to think about. But, those XTP's are a very good bullet. Sorry, no help on FTX.

850fps lead has more than enough capability to make em dead

 

[Weflyfast]

Out of curiosity, what were those results on deer? I find that sort of thing very interesting....and I'm curious about the flex-tip bullets generally.

This is a heart shot with a 500 S&W with a FTX bullet-
.....still made it to.the hedge row.....
I had a heck of a time.tracking him......big whitetail.....LOL

 

[Savage30L]

This is a heart shot with a 500 S&W with a FTX bullet-
.....still made it to.the hedge row.....
I had a heck of a time.tracking him......big whitetail.....LOL

I've shot quite a few deer, dozens, and only ever lost one....and it was hit like that.

I was hunting out of the second floor of an abandoned barn, shooting a 50-cal muzzleloader with a power-belt sabot bullet. A buck came out in the field in front of me at about 40 yards. He had a huge (bowling-ball sized) tumor hanging under his belly, so I thought, "I better take him". The opportunity was a perfect broadside shot, and I double-lunged him. He ran off through the field and into the woods beyond. I waited a little while, and climbed out to inspect the spot where he was standing. There was a splash of pink lung tissue/blood about as big as a stop sign. I'd hit him hard. I assumed I'd find him dead in the woods just beyond the field, but I tracked him for about a half-mile, on property which I did not have permission to hunt on, so I'd had to leave the gun behind.

I came to an open area with a small thicket of dense brush, maybe 15 feet across, and I just knew he'd be in there, piled up dead. So I stepped in...and he was in there, but very undead, and he jumped up and sprinted away faster than I'd ever seen a deer run....God knows where he ended up. I had no idea who owned the land he ran on to so I gave up rather than risk confrontation with a landowner or game warden.

You just never know. Sometimes adrenalin trumps everything.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have a little history with the 450 BM and 250 gr FTX factory rounds. They are accurate out of many different rifles for sure. They definitely have dubious performance in my experience but so far I have only ended up with dead deer.

I seem to get two results. DRT or 300+ yd death runs.

One time I had a typical 40 hour d death run. Oddly, this was the only time I ever recovered a bullet. This surprised me because it was a very close shot and the bullet performed flawlessly. It just didn’t exit with a 15 yd shot where all the others were 60+ yd shots.

On the ones that nearly ran into the next county, necropsy showed similar sized entrance and exit wounds which fits with the post shot reactions.

I can’t really explain the extreme variance in animal reactions but I am going to use up the 250 gr FTXs and never buy them again.

On another note I have had nothing but excellent results with the 265 gr FTX for 444 Marlin. Never recovered a bullet either. I have had nothing but DRTs with that one.

I used a .500 diameter 300 gr FTX in a purple sabot in a 54 cal ML for a time and also had nothing but DRTs.

Just like any cup and core bullet, if you get enough weight, it will do what you need it to do.

 

[Roverguy]

I have a little history with the 450 BM and 250 gr FTX factory rounds. They are accurate out of many different rifles for sure. They definitely have dubious performance in my experience but so far I have only ended up with dead deer.

I seem to get two results. DRT or 300+ yd death runs.

One time I had a typical 40 hour d death run. Oddly, this was the only time I ever recovered a bullet. This surprised me because it was a very close shot and the bullet performed flawlessly. It just didn’t exit with a 15 yd shot where all the others were 60+ yd shots.

On the ones that nearly ran into the next county, necropsy showed similar sized entrance and exit wounds which fits with the post shot reactions.

I can’t really explain the extreme variance in animal reactions but I am going to use up the 250 gr FTXs and never buy them again.

On another note I have had nothing but excellent results with the 265 gr FTX for 444 Marlin. Never recovered a bullet either. I have had nothing but DRTs with that one.

I used a .500 diameter 300 gr FTX in a purple sabot in a 54 cal ML for a time and also had nothing but DRTs.

Just like any cup and core bullet, if you get enough weight, it will do what you need it to do.

Thanks for the info on the 265 grs FTX in 444 Marlin. I had reservations based on my experience with the 250 FTX in 454 Casull. Appreciate this info.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Thanks for the info on the 265 grs FTX in 444 Marlin. I had reservations based on my experience with the 250 FTX in 454 Casull. Appreciate this info.

Here is the only bullet I recovered. This was from a good sized buck shot at 15 yds behind the shoulder. Recover from the far side hide. Still surprised that my closest shot was the only one that didn’t exit.

 

[GarrettJ]

The Hornady FTX bullets have a longer ogive than other bullets Al, iti believe is a requirement to keep the OAL short enough for them to chamber.

I have read the same. However, when I seat the 225 gr. FTX to the crimp groove in standard .45 Colt brass, I still end up with a cartridge that fits the cylinder of my NM Blackhawk. It may be that the cylinders of Colt revolvers and clones are shorter, but trimming doesn’t appear to be necessary for the Blackhawk.

I haven't tried the 250 gr. FTX, but it would be worth checking.