.250 Savage Handloads - need help

[SavageManAntonio]

I just purchased a Savage Model 14 American Classic. The Savage factory made me one in .250 Savage (left-handed). This has a 1:10 twist rate sporter-weight barrel. I planned to use 100 to 117 grain sierra bullets (boat-tail). I have some recommendations from a friend that has a similar gun and hand-loads.

I know from previous research that this gun can handle somewhere near 60,000 psi. However, most modern loading manuals state loads that are nowhere near that pressure because the load started in lever-actions that couldn't handle that kind of pressure. My friend has a old Lyman manual that shows pressures and velocities for more modern rifles. I intend to start my loads low and work up to a comfortable pressure. I say this because I know that velocities over 3000fps can be achieved with 100gr. bullets and that is my intention. But most loading manuals ( including all of mine) show maximum velocities and pressures that are much lower.

I was going to try H414, H380, W-760 and IMR:4320, 4064 - each with 100 and 117 grain bullets. I have to stress that I am trying to get to a load over 3000fps while finding the most accurate out of all of them.

Does anyone have pertinent information on loads, pressure, technique or where I can find more information? I KNOW that I have to follow safe procedures and I am not following modern loading manuals maximum pressure charts so please understand that when you reply. Any help with my goals are appreciated.

 

[NCsmitty]

SavageManAntonio,
I can relate to your situation, as I had to deal with my 6.5x55 M98 sporter and most of the loads were for the older M96 actions.
The 250 savage is a wonderful cartridge, and can achieve close to 3000fps with 100gr bullet in a strong bolt action.

Here's a site with some hotter loads.
www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=31



NCsmitty

 

[Ol` Joe]

I think if you look the books are listing the pressures in CUP not PSI. The SAAMI standard for the 250-3000 is 45K CUP. There is no corresponding piezo rating but, I`d suspect this is delivering somewhere in the 52K/54K psi range. The loads are not as anemic as one would believe.
Without a way of measuring pressure you are on your own as far as loading hotter. I had a old Lyman wire bound manual at one time and the loads in it were definatly in some cases way too much for some cartridges.
I doubt you`ll reach your goal especially with 120 gr bullets and keep pressure within reason. The 257 Rbts needs to be loaded in +P fashion to break 3000fps with 110gr & up bullets and this is a larger case then the 250. The cartridge was originally bragged up as doing 3000 fps with 87gr that were only 2/3 the wgt of the 120s you want to drive. You may however possibly see those velocities with 100s
Good luck..............

 

[SavageManAntonio]

You are absolutely correct. The pressures are in CUP not PSI - obvious misstatement on my part. I looked into some more loading resources and found some 100gr. loads in the 3000fps range and also in the 50000cup range with certain powders such as H-414. I am not insane and I am not trying to destroy my gun I just have a hard time limiting the potential of this round by not using it to its potential by underloading it to keep pressures in the 40000CUP range.

Do you guys see the same thing that I am seeing? It seems that since I know a friend that is seeing loads with 117gr bullets in the 3100fps range because of careful loading procedures and some older loading manuals that have helped. I would hate to limit the potential if it is possible to use the rifle more efficiently. I know my rifle can handle near 60000CUP although I am not looking to push it near that. I would just like to find a load in the 3000fps range that produces maybe mid 50K CUP at the most. I am sure if I had more info that this can be achieved. Unfortunately my friend with these loads recently moved away and I haven't been able to borrow his manuals or pick his brain.

Your opinion is greatly appreciated and any more help will be also.

 

[Wil Terry]

My savage 99 hits 2910fps with the starting loads of h414 pushing 100GR bullets.

It tops out at 3050 with the 100GR bullets. No other propellent even came close. I used data straight outta the HODGDON MANUAL. The accuaracy was wonderful.
The same propellent with 87GR bullets starts at 3050 and goes to 3250 for the top end loads.
ALL the other propellents I tested were a waste of time in comparison.

 

[Kernel]

Savageman,

My Powley Computer likes H414, also. Reloader 17 would be another possibility. Any of the powders, to either side (faster/slower), would be worth considering. The model predicts it should be a fine deer load with very moderate recoil. I think 3000 fps should be doable as you work up from a known safe starting load. With 120 gr bullets, I’d start with a slower powder, like 4350 or N150, and I think you will max out somewhere around 2800 fps.

Just like your bolt action isn’t limited by the lower pressures reserved for lever actions, neither should your cartridge overall length (COAL) be limited by what would cycle thru a lever action. SAAMI COAL for the .250 Savage is 2.520”. If your rifle has a long enough throat you should load longer. Doing so will increase powder capacity and allow for higher performance. Note that I used a COAL of 2.655” in my model.

I know of no cartridge that has a SAAMI CUP of 60k. Magnum cartridges like the 300 WSM are rated for 56k. The .30-06 is a 50k cartridge. I think 50k is a reasonable limit for your Model 14 in .250 Savage. 50k should get your 100 gr bullet to 3000 fps.

 

[SavageManAntonio]

Again, thank you for the help. I want to make sure that I am doing this safely and more information will help with my research. I did find some loads in an older Sierra manual that were right at 3000fps with a few powders. I have also found some recommended loads with H-414. I am planning to try that powder and a few others in the slower burning range. I have found that no common cartridges approach 60K CUP but I know my action can handle near there (not that I want to REALLY test it). Thank you for the help.

 

[Sunray]

"...a load over 3000fps..." Not with a 100 or 117 grain bullet. A max 100 grain bullet load with IMR powders will go slightly over 3000fps. Not a 117 grain bullet though. Not with any current Hodgon data either.
"...I am not following modern loading manuals maximum pressure charts..." Re-think that. You're not just asking for trouble, you're begging for it.
"...this gun can handle..." That is irrelevant. The cartridge won't.
"...My Powley Computer..." Means nothing.

 

[Kernel]

"...My Powley Computer..." Means nothing.

Right. Thermodynamics means nothing. We should just stick to the old fashion ways - like cutting open chickens and reading the entrails. There's gotta be some good load data in there somewhere! Plus, who doesn’t like fresh chicken?

 

[GooseGestapo]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I too think that your're looking for trouble(begging for it!).

The .250 Savage is a wonderful cartridge. Don't risk hurting your gun and youself with careless loading.

Dont' get hung up over the "3,000fps" figure. I've been loading and shooting the .257Roberts for over 30yrs. It kills just as well at 2,850fps with a 100gr bullet as it does at over 3,000fps. At this moment I'm looking up at a mount of a 10pt buck I killed in 1983 with a single shot from the .257 with a Hornady 100gr SPt at 2,850fps mv at a range of ~200yds. The load was a NON+P load of surplus (original WWII powder) H4831, and shot under 1" at 200yds. I could have gone faster and higher with the velocity, but WHY? Accuracy was phenomenal, and is more important than a few fps.

Try the H414, but I believe you may get better accuracy with either H4895 or IMR3031, and perhaps IMR4064.

Another thing to consider about your Savage is that the action dosen't cam the cartridge out of the chamber like a Mauser or Remington action will. I've got two Savage b/a's and neither cam like the two mentioned. This means that you will get "sticky" extraction sooner. I know, my left handed Savage M110 in .30/06 won't take loads over 5% UNDER listed max loads and still extract w/o having to move the bolt back with a whack from a wood block or similar item. My other Savage in .300RemUltMag, also exhibits this trait. A listed max of either RL25 or Retumbo will cause difficult extraction, hence my "max" loads for it are also 5% under "book" values.

The PLUS is that both of these rifles have "fast" barrels. The 'O6 gets 2,950 with a 150gr and only 50.0gr of IMR4064, whereas another '06 gets this with 52.0gr of powder, and a third needs 53.0gr to get same velocity. The .300RUM gets 3,300fps from a 180gr bullet, and 5% less powder than the "book" gives for same velocity... But, it does have a 26"bbl.......

Load to what YOUR rifle wants...... "Listen" to it.

A 117gr Hornady BTSP at 2,600-2,700 kills just as well as it does at 3,000fps..... just make sure that accuracy and function is good.

My .257Wby only gets another 300fps over my Roberts, and dosen't kill one whit better.... And the Roberts uses 30% less powder. Your "little" Savage will do just as well, and use 50-60% less powder.

Don't under estimate the effectiveness of the .250. With 100gr bullets it noticebly out performs the .243 with same wt. bullets at same speed.
I nearly blew up a Stevens M200 trying to get 3,000fps from a 100gr bullet in .243. Had to remove the barrel to get a case from the chamber...... Never got 3,000fps but got close with IMR4831 and RL22.... and SAFE pressures. However, the deer never knew the difference....... The Hornady 100gr BTSP in .243 WILL BLOW UP on deer at ranges under 50yds at 2,900fps m/v. I know, I've seen it too many times (Sierra's and Nosler 95gr BT's too....)

A friend has a .250 barrel on his T/C Contender (Super14). He gets ~2,450fps with the 100gr bullets and he's never lost a deer, and never had to shoot one twice. But his gun is sub-MOA at 100yds and wears a 2x-8x scope. And he practices, a LOT, with a .22lr barrel on the Contender. Met him first time at a handgun silhoutte match.
YMMV.

 

[SavageManAntonio]

Thank you all for your help. I guess that I have not conveyed my feelings the correct way. I have attempted (in research) to get over 3000fps and find out what data is available because original rifles that were chambered for this were limited in the pressure that the action could withstand. I have to say that even though I stated that I am not following loading manual data, I actually am following it. I just did not want to get hung up on what other people's data in their manual states for the purpose of this discussion.

I know that the Savage action can handle much more than the typical loading information states and I am trying to find more information - not because I am trying to blow up the gun. In an attempt to see where or how someone I know had 117gr Sierra bullets reaching over 3000fps safely I have embarked in this research. I have seen him fire the loads and seen the cases after.

I am the type to be perfectly happy if I am not getting to maximum velocity but reaching very good to excellent accuracy. I guess I had hoped that I would be able to find a load near 3000fps but with a focus on accuracy while being safe. The goal is to efficiently use to cartridge to its potential (while going over the 40KCUP for older rifles but well within the safe limits of newer actions).

To all of you whom have responded, PLEASE understand that I think some of this is or may be possible such as SAFELY reaching 3000fps with 117gr. bullets but I may never try it. I am just trying to get more information on loads, opinions, specs, etc.

Thank you again for your help. I plan to be safe, even if that means not reaching past normal loads and I appreciate the input.