MCgunner
Member
The .270 is, what, 60 years old? I guess it's outdated. You do have to have several subscript letters after the caliber now days to be up to date, you know, like RUM or WSM or GSXR or YZF or something.
270 or 308 or 30-06
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Jeffreii
Member
My simple outcome would be this
270 flattest
308 most accurate
30-'06 hardest hitting
note: some twist rates in 30-'06 are not optimized for the heavier bullets so even though 110-220 is available, not necessarily going to shoot the best with all of them. 308 case most efficient design of all of them (translates into most accurate)
270 flattest
308 most accurate
30-'06 hardest hitting
note: some twist rates in 30-'06 are not optimized for the heavier bullets so even though 110-220 is available, not necessarily going to shoot the best with all of them. 308 case most efficient design of all of them (translates into most accurate)
Oldernat, developed in 1923, unveiled in 1925 in the Winchester model 54.
.
That's over 90 years ago the '06 over 100, the 375 H&H, and others about the same.
Not up on the time frame of the smaller varmint size calibers in 22 or so, or when the larger what is referred to as African rounds came along in modern smokeless powders, but I would say nothing that really truly works significantly better has came down the pike since. It may be a bit faster or a little more efficient but not by enough to get real excited about. For sure not to the extent we have been lead to believe.
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George Hill
Member
You guys saying the .30-30 is popular because of all the sales of ammo to feed old rifles.... your wrong. I sell lots of new Marlin .30-30 rifles. Stainless ones, blued ones, walnut ones, laminated ones. .30-30 is popular because it's easy to shoot well with.
The .308 being most accurate... or more accurate than the other cartridges in the topic. Hate to burst your bubble there too. You think that, then you've not shot a good .270 with good ammo. Shockingly accurate.
And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards.
At the same time, I've seen .308 rifles that were lucky to shoot inside 2 inches at 100 yards.
.308 gets the rep for accuracy because quite often those .308 rifles out there are getting dressed up to the Nth degree with tactical stocks and scopes and your lucky to get that sort of set up for less than 2 grand.
Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope.... and you are going to base your cartridge assessment on that. You match dollar on dollar, and put the same effort to find the right load for that .270, it's going to shoot every bit as accurately if not more so at longer range than the .308 which is drastically average yet is more over rated than Chuck Norris.
The .308 being most accurate... or more accurate than the other cartridges in the topic. Hate to burst your bubble there too. You think that, then you've not shot a good .270 with good ammo. Shockingly accurate.
And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards.
At the same time, I've seen .308 rifles that were lucky to shoot inside 2 inches at 100 yards.
.308 gets the rep for accuracy because quite often those .308 rifles out there are getting dressed up to the Nth degree with tactical stocks and scopes and your lucky to get that sort of set up for less than 2 grand.
Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope.... and you are going to base your cartridge assessment on that. You match dollar on dollar, and put the same effort to find the right load for that .270, it's going to shoot every bit as accurately if not more so at longer range than the .308 which is drastically average yet is more over rated than Chuck Norris.
Jeffreii
Member
George Hill...The 30-'06 is a very accurate cartridge, but please show me a one that will do <2" groups at 600 yards like the 40 shot groups at NRA matches that were done by 308's. The best '06 would need that target at 200 yards. That is 2-3 times more accurate! The lower-class guys using 308's were beating the high-class ones with 30-'06's. The 308 is what caused the 1000 yard tie breaking V ring to have a scale reduction of 50%. This was both used before by the best-of-the-best setups in both '06's and 308's; Obviously there can be a lesser gun of either be out done, but then that would be due to the rifle not the cartridge.
The 30-06 is, however, less finicky with powders - most efficient than any other cartridge in that regard.
Anyhow, not trying to start up a thread topic change - all three are very good cartridges and the accuracy benefits between the three would probably be less than noticeable with average shooters using sporter type guns - and most importantly - the deer sure aren't going to be able to tell the difference.
The 30-06 is, however, less finicky with powders - most efficient than any other cartridge in that regard.
Anyhow, not trying to start up a thread topic change - all three are very good cartridges and the accuracy benefits between the three would probably be less than noticeable with average shooters using sporter type guns - and most importantly - the deer sure aren't going to be able to tell the difference.
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K3
Member
Uh-oh. Now you've gone and done it.
Shawnee
member
Come now, TCB...
Your numbers are lovely things indeed, and I recommend them to one and all, especially to those who shoot most of their deer with numbers. But to try to smite me with the feeble accusation that I present no fact - when I clearly said that guns/calibers that blast and kick less are much easier for more people to shoot more comfortably and more effectively - and that is, in fact, Suh, -FACT - as anyone who has patiently observed thousands of shooters as have I can vouchsafe.... well you make my heart heavy with such castigations.
And then you accuse me of "smack" and protest my labeling narrowminded knuckleheadery for exactly what it is when your protest follow close on the heels of a post from one of the '06 priests who writes such horse mustard as...
"And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards. ....Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope."
You are certainly entitled to believe that hordes of people with 30/06s while away the happy, windswept Western hours making head shots on camoflaged prairie dogs at 400 yds. (NOT 390yds., mind you!) with their old, off-the-rack '06's under cheap scopes - if you so choose.
But I assure you, Suh, my labeling such pro-30/'06 braggadoccio as Simon-pure horse mustard is FACT.
An Thas'Sa Fac, Jac !
Your numbers are lovely things indeed, and I recommend them to one and all, especially to those who shoot most of their deer with numbers. But to try to smite me with the feeble accusation that I present no fact - when I clearly said that guns/calibers that blast and kick less are much easier for more people to shoot more comfortably and more effectively - and that is, in fact, Suh, -FACT - as anyone who has patiently observed thousands of shooters as have I can vouchsafe.... well you make my heart heavy with such castigations.
And then you accuse me of "smack" and protest my labeling narrowminded knuckleheadery for exactly what it is when your protest follow close on the heels of a post from one of the '06 priests who writes such horse mustard as...
"And as far as the .30-06 accuracy... come on. We've got guys out here shooting Prarie Dogs at 400 yards with their old .30-06 rifles with light loads. The P-Dog is a small critter. About the same size as a grey squirrel. They are the same color as rocks out there and can be sometimes hard to see. So when you go for a P-Dog head shot, you are shooting at a target roughly the size of a large hard boiled egg. At 400 yards. ....Quite often those .270 and .30-06 hunting rifles are staight off the shelf with a 200 dollar scope."
You are certainly entitled to believe that hordes of people with 30/06s while away the happy, windswept Western hours making head shots on camoflaged prairie dogs at 400 yds. (NOT 390yds., mind you!) with their old, off-the-rack '06's under cheap scopes - if you so choose.
But I assure you, Suh, my labeling such pro-30/'06 braggadoccio as Simon-pure horse mustard is FACT.
An Thas'Sa Fac, Jac !
MCgunner
Member
Well, I like .30-30, too. I mean, ain't many calibers that won't do the job. I never owned a lever gun in .30-30, though, go figure. I had a Savage 340, sold to my uncle in a time of abject poverty (as opposed to my normal level of poverty), and I now have a 12" contender in the caliber. Makes a GREAT pistol round, too!
I'm not sure why, but in my circle of friends, I don't know, but a couple who use the .30-30. Well, one of 'em inherited his grandpa's pre-64 94 Winchester, but he hunts with a Browning A bolt in 7-08 mostly. Has a 700 in .270, too. He's shot elk with that one. I like his 94, Williams receiver sight on it, 2" at 100 yards with irons! Danged fine shootin' old rifle.
I'm not sure why, but in my circle of friends, I don't know, but a couple who use the .30-30. Well, one of 'em inherited his grandpa's pre-64 94 Winchester, but he hunts with a Browning A bolt in 7-08 mostly. Has a 700 in .270, too.
He's shot elk with that one. I like his 94, Williams receiver sight on it, 2" at 100 yards with irons! Danged fine shootin' old rifle.Jeffreii
Member
That is what I thought too - you ought to write and tell that to Hornady who liked bashing the so-so 30-30 if chambered in a 12" barrel. I never brought the 30-30 up as it wasn't in the list provided by the thread starter. Definitely less chance of bullet failure and the need for super-bullets with all the, really unneeded for many cases, high velocity.
TCB in TN
Member
The only problem here is that you say that there is such a big difference between them in favor of the .270 when my own experience, and the numbers show that their is NOT. I do agree that less recoil and muzzle blast DO make it easier to shoot, but you are just wrong in your assertain that the .270 does what you say it does. (as proven by my own experience and the numbers)
That was tongue in cheek remember the
! As for the rest, well I will just go on about my business and be happy with whatever guns I happen to have to shoot!
MCgunner
Member
You kiddin'? sheesh! I've only taken five deer and the furtherest was 90 yards, but it kills 'em just as dead as my .308! I shoot a Nosler 150 BT or a Barnes 140 X bullet. I've only killed with the Nosler, but have gotten good expansion and wound channel and complete penetration.
If Hornady bashed it, it's probably because you have to push an interlock bullet to 3500 fps to get any expansion out of it...
Interlock bullets penetrate, but I've had problems in the past with expansion even at rifle velocities on thin skinned game. Drop an interlock down to 2100 fps and forget it. But, the Nosler works fantastic and I'm not the only one that thinks so, have heard from others. Sierra used to make a 135 Pro Hunter, designed for .30- 30 and .30 Herrett Contenders, but it's been dropped. That was a good bullet, but the 150 BT carries near 1000 ft lbs out of my Contender at 200 yards and that's plenty! It has a decent BC being a boat tail design. 3" high at 100, it's dead on at 200 in my gun. That's a lot flatter shooting than most of your straight cased revolver cartridges.
Okay, I'm way off topic, sorry.
. Not so
.Not so by about 1/3
Maybe so but in today world it and would qualify as unethical and irresponsible, good chance illegal.
talk about balderdash and mustard gezzz
This is like spitin in the wind I otta know better
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McGunner,
ever try run of the mill bullets in the T/C 30-30? Core-Lokts or Hornadys plane Jane bullet should work OK at those speeds.
None of the above. My number one, go to load for whitetail deer is the .25-06. We have very generous limits (5 per year usually) and I have been hunting with the .25-06 for at least a dozen of those years. I have used all of the ones listed too. They have all shown to be inferior to our Texas deer.
Of all the deer I have shot, if it is not a central nervous system shut down, all of the others have had deer run. Not always very far.... usually 50 yards, but run nonetheless. Of the dozens of deer I have shot with the .25-06 only one animal (A large Mouflon Ram) has taken more than about 4 steps. And this is boiler room shots... I am not even counting the neck or head shots that drop them in their tracks.
This is from small Hill Country deer to some big South Texas deer. BANG. DRT.
Of all the deer I have shot, if it is not a central nervous system shut down, all of the others have had deer run. Not always very far.... usually 50 yards, but run nonetheless. Of the dozens of deer I have shot with the .25-06 only one animal (A large Mouflon Ram) has taken more than about 4 steps. And this is boiler room shots... I am not even counting the neck or head shots that drop them in their tracks.
This is from small Hill Country deer to some big South Texas deer. BANG. DRT.
MCgunner
Member
I've got some 20 or so kills with the .257 Roberts, not far off the .25-06. I'm shootin' a 100 grain Game King at 3150 fps now days. Have used other loads in the past. I have about 10 kills so far with the .308. I can't really tell the difference. None of the deer kills with my .308 have been over 150 yards, but I had a coyote kill at about 370 by laser.
.25-06 is a fine deer caliber, won't dispute that, I don't really consider it superior to any other caliber. It does reach out there well and is light on the shoulder. My step-dad had a 700ADL in .25-06, good shootin' gun.
.25-06 is a fine deer caliber, won't dispute that, I don't really consider it superior to any other caliber. It does reach out there well and is light on the shoulder. My step-dad had a 700ADL in .25-06, good shootin' gun.
MCgunner
Member
An AR? Wow, that's novel! LOL If you're going to shoot a black rifle, why not a powerful one? Accuracy shouldn't be a problem.
Accuracy shouldn't be a problem.George Hill
Member
"You are certainly entitled to believe that hordes of people with 30/06s while away the happy, windswept Western hours making head shots on camoflaged prairie dogs at 400 yds. (NOT 390yds., mind you!) with their old, off-the-rack '06's under cheap scopes - if you so choose."
No, those shots were done with Savage rifles... not expensive, rather common, but they did have good scopes on them. Sheppards, Zeiss', and VX-III... I never said they had cheap scopes on them. You missed my point. Most of the time, your average .30-06 will be equipped with cheap scopes... and that leads people to believe that they are just on average a less accurate cartridge. But with decent scopes on half decent rifles with a good shooter behind the trigger and with carefully reloaded ammunition... the accuracy is amazing.
Next time you come around my corner of Utah, you can come hunting P-Dogs or Coyotes with me and my friends. But bring some good optics because these wind swept western areas can make things hard to see unaided.
I'm not saying we all shoot .30-06's but lots do. Personally, I use a 7MM for long range shooting most of the time. .300 Win Mag other times when I want to hit harder at a distance.
Calling me a liar because you can't shoot? Interesting. If you want to test your opinion, you bring your .308 and we'll go do some shooting at see what's up. We'll see who puts more rabbits in the back of the truck.
All I'm saying is that the .30-06 can be amazingly accurate. I'm not even that much of a .30-06 fan.
No, those shots were done with Savage rifles... not expensive, rather common, but they did have good scopes on them. Sheppards, Zeiss', and VX-III... I never said they had cheap scopes on them. You missed my point. Most of the time, your average .30-06 will be equipped with cheap scopes... and that leads people to believe that they are just on average a less accurate cartridge. But with decent scopes on half decent rifles with a good shooter behind the trigger and with carefully reloaded ammunition... the accuracy is amazing.
Next time you come around my corner of Utah, you can come hunting P-Dogs or Coyotes with me and my friends. But bring some good optics because these wind swept western areas can make things hard to see unaided.
I'm not saying we all shoot .30-06's but lots do. Personally, I use a 7MM for long range shooting most of the time. .300 Win Mag other times when I want to hit harder at a distance.
Calling me a liar because you can't shoot? Interesting. If you want to test your opinion, you bring your .308 and we'll go do some shooting at see what's up. We'll see who puts more rabbits in the back of the truck.
All I'm saying is that the .30-06 can be amazingly accurate. I'm not even that much of a .30-06 fan.
Shawnee
member
Hi George...
I was just out in Utah last Sept., George, where were you ?
So tell me, George - you figure living in Utah means you can outshoot anyone from east of the Mississippi, do Ya ?
I was just out in Utah last Sept., George, where were you ?
So tell me, George - you figure living in Utah means you can outshoot anyone from east of the Mississippi, do Ya ?
George Hill
Member
As they say in the westerns, I don't have to out shoot everyone... just you.
*ka-shing* spur sounds *ka-shing*
In all seriousness... there are only 3 things do out here.
Shoot, Drink, and ahem... well I don't drink and my wife smiles a lot. I only work 4 days a week... so that means I shoot and fish. I'm no good at fishing. Hard to aim at the blighters.
I had a hard time fixing my last post, server kept timing out on me so I posted it on MadOgre.com....
*ka-shing* spur sounds *ka-shing*
In all seriousness... there are only 3 things do out here.
Shoot, Drink, and ahem... well I don't drink and my wife smiles a lot. I only work 4 days a week... so that means I shoot and fish. I'm no good at fishing. Hard to aim at the blighters.
I had a hard time fixing my last post, server kept timing out on me so I posted it on MadOgre.com....
I guess the best way to put this to the test is to take away as many variables as possible. Use a TC Encore rifle with a .308 and a .30-06 barrel and top them both with the same scopes. Take 3 different factory loads for each caliber all with the same bullet... and shoot the averages. Use a Lead Sled to brace the gun and to remove as much Human Error as possible. One of these days I'll have to buy both those barrels and do this. But even then it would only prove which one is more accurate out of those barrels. So even then it's not concrete.
BENELLIMONTE
member
For real world big game hunting I use specific calibers for specific applications: for doe mule deer & antelope I use a Rem. model 7 in 243 Win w 100grain Nosler partitions, for cow elk and buck mule deer I use a Tikka lite hunter in 270 Win with 150grain Nosler partitions and for bull elk or moose I shoot my Weatherby MKV in 300 Weatherby magnum w 200 grain Nosler partitions. In the past 30 years of hunting in the west I have used all the calibers you had questions about. I have found the 3 calibers I use now give me the most consistent kills on the size of game they are used for without being excessive in terms of recoil or meat damage.Hopefully that somewhat answers your question on caliber choices.
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Shawnee
member
"*ka-shing* spur sounds *ka-shing*"
Spurs ??? Geez, George, spurs are for Dudes and Spaghetti-Westerners,
and so are saddles and stirrups...
ROTFLMAO !!
Hmmm... well since you didn't say whether your wife smiles a lot due to the "ahem", or due to the spurs (or both) - uh, Nevermind.
Spurs ???
Geez, George, spurs are for Dudes and Spaghetti-Westerners, and so are saddles and stirrups...
ROTFLMAO !!
Hmmm... well since you didn't say whether your wife smiles a lot due to the "ahem", or due to the spurs (or both
) - uh, Nevermind.Terrierman
Member
Real World:
.270 = .30-06 = .308 = .280 Rem = 7mm-08 = 6.5x55 = .260 Rem = 7x57
It is the rifle, the projectile used and the shooter that make the difference, not the caliber or chambering.
.270 = .30-06 = .308 = .280 Rem = 7mm-08 = 6.5x55 = .260 Rem = 7x57
It is the rifle, the projectile used and the shooter that make the difference, not the caliber or chambering.
Rokman
Member
I voted .30-06', but they are all fine deer calibers. I have personally killed scores of deer with great satisfaction with a .25-06'.
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