3" .357 peppers my shooting room with unburnt powder...

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DHart

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I've been developing a defense load for my .357 wheelguns with 3" barrels. I'd like to get about 1200 fps with a 140 gr. XTP/JHP. I can achieve this from my 3" revolvers with 16 gr. of 2400 or with 17.5 gr. of H-110. So that part is all well and good...

BUT, I'm finding my shooting room is littered everywhere with unburnt powder, indicating that a lot of the powder is exiting with the bullet unburnt, hence going to waste. I'm achieving my objective velocity, but wasting powder in the process. If I cut back on the powder, I lose my velocity. Is there a faster powder I can go to which will meter nicely in a Dillon 550, burn cleanly AND completely... and still push a 140 gr. JHP at 1200 fps from a 3" barrel?
 
Without going to specifics ... IMO that 2400 is too slow for a short barrel. I would investigate some loads using Blue Dot but - again, be prepared for some unburned powder... and soot! It's a faster powder tho.

I played with loads for shorter barrels and 2400 for sure just will not all burn up cleanly. I have not tried but - I'd wager that a Vhit' powder like N-110 would be much cleaner, even tho still quite slow.... just better burning.

Some folks here may well have gone thru exactly all this and have your answer! We'll see.
 
Thanks Chris... I too feel that a faster powder than 2400 or H-110 is needed... but the tough part is finding one that's slow enough to develop some real .357 power, yet fast enough to mostly all burn up in 3", meter well, and burn fairly cleanly. Tough challenge, but there must be a powder out there which does a pretty good job of such difficult work.

I chose the 140 gr. because I feel it's a good compromise (esp. in the shorter barrelled carry guns) between the 125 gr. and the 158 gr., allowing good speed for expansion, and ample weight for deep penetration... while avoiding forcing cone erosion commonly associated with the super fast 125 gr. and avoiding the heavier recoil associated with the 158 gr. Hornady's 140 gr. XTP/JHP and Speers 140 gr. JHP are great defense bullets meeting this "compromise" concept.

I would imagine that there are a LOT of people who are interested in this very topic... especially those who have .357's with barrels of only 2 1/8 and 2 1/2". For a snub, mine at 3" are on the long side (thankfully) and that helps just a bit with better performance.

Hoping to hear from others who've been down this road and developed a good "map".
 
You might want to try AA#7. It will be a maximum or near maximum load and you don't need a magnum primer with AA#7, but it might be just what you need. AA#7 is a little slower burning than Unique, but faster than 2400 and it is a spherical powder, so it should meter very well.

Also, how much roll crimp are you giving these rounds. Slow burning powders respond really well to plenty of crimp. Even fast burning powders seem to do well with at least a moderate crimp.
 
You are going to have some unburnt powder expelled no matter what you use or what speed it is. It isn't a big deal, nor is it a problem if the performance of the load meets your expectations.
 
IIRC, every gunrag load development test I've seen in .357 Magnum showed the fastest velocities were always with the slowest powders (WW 296, H-110, 2400, Blue Dot & similar), regardless of barrel length. Flash and boom seemed unavoidable with those, too.

Me, I've considered getting a 586 and screwing a flashider into a hole on the end of the lug.

If there's enough "unburned" grass coming out the end of a buffalo, as evidenced by how brightly their chips burn, do we consider a large part of the feed going to "waste"? :banghead: No pun intended, think BEFORE it becomes waste... :uhoh:
 
Well... certainly I can live with some unburnt powder, though I would like to minimize that. Looking at the reloading books, it seems as though Viht 3N37 and N350 would be good powders to try... and PowerPistol looks like it gives the highest velocity of all the faster powders we're considering. I may just have to work some more with PowerPistol... it meters well, burns cleanly, but does have a lot of flash! But I guess there's no free lunch anywhere! :rolleyes:
 
Long Post below!

I had a lot of unburned powder in my 2 1/4 SP101. I just wrote it up to the short barrel. Until I noticed the same rounds were leaving behind lots of powder in my Desert Eagle.

So, I played around with the charge a bit, and also realized I had very little crimp on the load. (I had adjusted the seating/crimp die when I was loading 125 grain bullets, and never reset the crimp, oops.)

Anyways, I have a pretty nice load now that works well in both guns. It's what I call a Mid Magnum load: Still comfortable to shoot in the SP while hot enough to cycle the Eagle reliably. It's a 158 grain bullet on 14.5 grains of WC820 (A military pulldown powder in between H110 and AA #9. It's kind of like older ball version of 9.) with a tight crimp. It produces ~1100 FPS out of the SP and ~1400 out of the Eagle, and not nearly as much unburned powder.

I have done a little experimenting with Blue Dot in .357, but haven't found a good load yet. I use it alot in .44. Also, I plan on trying Power Pistol, I really like it in .40 and .45 loads.

BTW, if you get any of that military powder TEST TEST TEST! Be very careful with it. It took myself and Black Snowman quite a bit of time carefully building up loads and chrono-ing them to get to good, safe results.
 
I use AA #7 in my defensive 10mm loads due to the low flash and excellent performance. If you can work up enough safe velocity in the .357 this would be my powder of choice for the job. Alternately AA #9, WC820 and Blue Dot would be viable options as well. I've made lots of warm 38 Spl loads with Blue Dot with good results. Don't know if it's up to giving you the velocity you want. Guess you'll have to experiment with it.
 
Thanks for the input guys... I bought some AA#5 when I meant to buy AA#7. I doubt they'll take it back, so I guess I can use it for practice/target loads, or perhaps .45 ACP. So I'll have to go back and get some AA#7 to try. Sounds like the AA powders are pretty well liked.

The PowerPistol might just be the answer except for the flash. If AA#7 can move the 140grain JHP at 1130 to 1140 fps from the 3" tube without a lot of flash or unburned powder, that will be the ticket!

P.S. I'm starting to build a small collection of different powders... but I'd like to be able to settle on just two or three.
 
Two or three powders is my dream! I currently have on the shelves ... hmmm ... too lazy to count ... approx 12 minimum, different - probably way more than that! Ask RevDisk - he saw the shelves tho he didn't take inventory!

Good luck with the load tests - do come back and post any interesting findings.
 
Just made up some Christmas PowerPistol loads and chronyed them tonight. Chronograph 12' from the muzzle.

Test gun: Ruger GP-100 (fixed sights, 3" barrel)

KGPF331R.jpg


Bullet: 140 gr. Speer JHP
Primer: Federal Gold Match Standard Small Pistol

9.0 gr. PowerPistol = 1089 fps / 369 fpe
9.5 gr. PowerPistol = 1161 fps / 419 fpe

Very clean burning, no smoke or soot whatsoever; no evidence of unburned powder. Moderate recoil. Bright flash. All in all, looks like it would be a good defense load, potent yet quite controllable. Very comfortable in the 3" GP-100, not bad in the 3" Smith 13/65. Haven't tried it in my SP-101 yet, though. I suspect it will be controllable in the SP-101, but felt recoil will be much more intense.
 
That would appear a good result .......... very good for your purposes. I am too lazy to look at any manuals but - how much ''room'' is there above that 9.5 grain load - if any? I am thinking that 140 could be pushed harder - if indeed that was wanted.

NICE pic ... good job. :)
 
Hey Chris... no doubt the 140 gr JHP can be pushed harder and would perform well at probably up to 1500 fps or more. Speer calls 9.5 gr. max for this bullet, so that probably means 10 or possibly a little more might be ok. I'm pretty happy with it right at 9.5 gr.

At 1161 fps the bullet should have plenty of velocity to expand well and also give deep penetration. And it's easy to control from a 3" barrel. From a 4" I would expect velocity to be 1225 or so and perhaps 1325 from a 6" barrel. And from those larger guns the load would be a creampuff to control.
 
357 Powder

Gentlemen,
Wanted to comment on the powders the individual is using with the 3" barrel revolver. These powders are much to slow for this gun.
Have loaded 357 magnum loads for many years . Started out shooting the TC Contender. The load was 15.5 grains of WW296 behind a 180 grain bullet , with a magnum primer. Chronographed these at 1500 + fp second.
They were used to knock the 52 pound rams down shooting IHMSA. 200 meter distance.
HERE IS A LOAD I HAVE USED FOR YEARS IN MY 586 6" BARREL and my snubby Taurus.
140 Grain JHP
WW 231 8.0 Grains
Standard Pistol Primers
I crimp in the cannelure fairly firm. The velocity of this load is 1206 out of the Smith and Wesson 6" Revolver and burns extremely clean. I realize there are probably better powders out there but i purchase 8 pounds at a time and use the same powder in my 45 ACP Pistols with good success.
The bottom line is you need something which burns a little faster. By the way i got this load from the SIERRA HANDGUN RELOADING MANUAL 3rd Additon. Hope this helps some :(
 
Cottontoptexan .. welcome! :)

I am not a frequent user of WW powders but, reading your data - it'd seem that you have two very separate and distinct loads mentioned. For the T/C, logically, you have a stout load for the 180 - in a strong gun ... and, a slowish powder. I put 296 in similar category to H110, N110, 2400 even. Sounds like a great load... for T/C.

The other you mention is certainly using the faster 231 .. probably a good choice but - your 1206 from 6" barrel does not seem to have that great an edge compared with DHart's load results from the 3" and AA.

I doubt of course there is any one all-embracing ''definitive'' load but certainly yours is well worthy of consideration. Not ''knocking'' it BTW - no way! Just drawing comparisons.
 
Hi cottontoptexan... I agree that 2400 and H-110 are too slow for the 3" .357's. But it sure seems that PowerPistol is plenty fast enough for the 3" tube. I like it. But I'm going to try AA#5 and AA#7 also, just to see how they are with it.

BTW, your 1206 fps load in the 6" tube is only going to give you about 940 in your snubby, which I would say may not be enough speed to expand the 140 gr. JHP like you might want it to expand. Better to make up a faster load for your snubby (might I suggest 9.5 gr. of PowerPistol behind those 140's?). You should get about about 1096 fps with that load through the snubby, which should be sufficient velocity to allow the bullet to perform as it was designed to perform.
 
DHart, You might want to try Hodgdon Longshot, It gives the performance of Power pistol without the flash. I use it exclusively in my .357 SP 101 with great results. I cant recall my speed across the chrony but I do know it was pretty impressive. I use 158 gr remington hollow points with federal small pistol mag primers. The charge I use is 8.0 grains.


Just a suggestion
Nick
 
Razor... thanks for the info on Longshot. I do need to develop a load for my SP-101 as well as a little hotter version for my GPs and K-frames. I've also heard that AA#5 is clean burning, meters well, and has little flash. I recently bought a # of AA#5 so I'm going to try it next. I do like PP, but I would be happier with a lot less flash.
 
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