3" High/100 yard Battle Zero

[Chris Rhines]

I read this a few days ago, and found it interesting: http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published/thebattlefieldzerofullpictures.pdf

Short version, Paul Howe advocates a carbine battle zero 3" high at 100 yards. He describes several advantages to this zero, mainly, easier hits out at 200-300 yards without changing your hold.

Since most of my rifle shooting is done at 3-gun matches, my needs are a little different. Still, I can see some advantages for my game as well. The smallest target you're likely to shoot in a 3-gun match is an 8" diameter plate. Using my usual 77-grain match load with a 3" high/100-yard zero, I'll be within 4" of POA all the way out to just over 300 yards. This means, in extremis, I can shoot a center hold for 90% of all the shots I'll ever take.

Any thoughts? Why do you use the zero that you use?

-C

 

[Zombiphobia]

during weapon quals I usually set my zero a little bit high(and aim low) so it's easier to hit the further targets.

 

[68wj]

Paul also developed this: http://xssights.com/store/CSAT.html

I haven't used one personally, but like the concept.

ETA: The PDF finally loaded and I saw that he mentioned these towards the bottom.

 

[M1key]

AR carbines I prefer a 50/200yd zero.

I always thought 300yd zeros were for 30 caliber rifles (308/3006).


M

 

[MtnCreek]

Zero a AR carbine at 300m and you'll be about 5" high at half that distance.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

My understanding of battle sights has nothing to do with competition shooting. It has to do with setting your rifle for maximum effective point blank range. If you need to compete you need to find a set up that works for your specific disipline.

The battle sights are disigned so that you can zero your rifle at 25 meters and at 300 meters it will also be at zero. Anywhere in between you will be high as much as almost 3 inches. So what this gives you is a 300 yard point blank range which is fine for combat shooting (man size targets). I don't think I'd use that set up to shoot 8" plates.

Past 300 meters you can flip your sights and take more precise shots.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I've been using this zero for years, and it seems to work. It ends up being about a 250 yard zero with .308s

 

[MtnCreek]

The battle sights are disigned so that you can zero your rifle at 25 meters and at 300 meters it will also be at zero. Anywhere in between you will be high as much as almost 3 inches. So what this gives you is a 300 yard point blank range which is fine for combat shooting (man size targets). I don't think I'd use that set up to shoot 8" plates.

More like 5" for me.

 

[MCMXI]

The "standard" military zero for M16 rifles is 25/300 yards using XM193 or equivalent. If you run those numbers, you'll see that it would put you about 3" high at 100 yards. Paul Howe's zero makes sense to me.

 

[A_Matthew]

I sight my '06 about 1 1/2-2" high at 100yds for the reason mentioned here. Don't have to worry so much about hold over at longer distances. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the concept on any 4-legged creatures yet...

 

[MtnCreek]

The "standard" military zero for M16 rifles is 25/300 yards using XM193 or equivalent. If you run those numbers, you'll see that it would put you about 3" high at 100 yards.

Roger that, but max spread is more like 5", unless I'm wrong (and that has hapened MANY times).

 

[Chris Rhines]

Part of what prompted me to bring this up, was a 3-gun match I shot yesterday down at USTC. There were a couple of people there who were running 50 yard/meter zeros, and one who was running a 25-meter zero. All of them, without exception, had major problems hitting a 12"x18" plate at 250 yards.

If you zero your carbine at 50 yards, you still don't really know where you're going to hit out past 100. If all your shooting is going to be done at conversational distances, that may not matter. If you're going to be employing your rifle at longer ranges, you'd better get out to the range and confirm where it's hitting...

-C

 

[PandaBearBG]

Competition setup and battle zero is completely different beasts. Competition zero IMHO is more specific to the individual user for his rifle, his course, his shooting style. Battle zero is exactly what it is intended for battle scenario, engagements at no predetermined distances, unknown quantity, unknown size, etc. Battle zero is effective for combat scenarios which for some people's styles are great for match shooting, but in the end it's up to the individual.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Competition setup and battle zero is completely different beasts.

I strongly disagree. If you can't hit an 8" target, you can't hit an 8" target. it doesn't matter if its on a one way range or two way.


The Reason why the 25M zero was developed was range facilities for farther than that are rare in the military, not because of any particular efficacy.


the 3" high at 100 zero has two advantages.

It is better matched to the trajectory of the rifle than a 50M or 25M zero.

since you are shooting four times the distance, any errors in zero are four times as apparent, allowing you to get a finer zero than at the shorter ranges.

 

[LKB3rd]

The "standard" military zero for M16 rifles is 25/300 yards using XM193 or equivalent. If you run those numbers, you'll see that it would put you about 3" high at 100 yards.
Roger that, but max spread is more like 5", unless I'm wrong (and that has hapened MANY times).

It starts a couple inches low (the height of the sights), crosses the sight line, then goes high, and back down. I think you are both right. 3" high is 5 inches from its start which is lower than the sight line.

 

[GCBurner]

Part of what prompted me to bring this up, was a 3-gun match I shot yesterday down at USTC. There were a couple of people there who were running 50 yard/meter zeros, and one who was running a 25-meter zero. All of them, without exception, had major problems hitting a 12"x18" plate at 250 yards.

If you zero your carbine at 50 yards, you still don't really know where you're going to hit out past 100. If all your shooting is going to be done at conversational distances, that may not matter. If you're going to be employing your rifle at longer ranges, you'd better get out to the range and confirm where it's hitting...

-C

There's a secret to it. The secret is to do enough practice with your known load at known distances, and make notes of where you're hitting. After ENOUGH practice, you should be able to confidently know where you're going to hit at any given distance.
So, get one accurate load, make notes, and practice, practice, practice. Anybody who doesn't keep a shooter's notebook to keep track of loads and trajectory isn't really serious, they're just plinking. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[dirtykid]

i've found each gun to be different, my Bushmaster-AR .223 seems to be comfy with being zero'd at 100 yds,, seems pin-point accurate at every distance in-between there and 25-yds, But my bolt-action REM-700 .243 likes 200-yd zero as it also seems to be "flat" for at least that far,,

 

[BrocLuno]

As far as I know, all major powers in WW-II set battle "zero" at 300 yds/m with a 6 O'clock site picture. That was to give them maximum point blank range for torso sized targets. If range was actually known, you could adjust your hold for a more precise point of impact.

I can't actually recall the excat point of impact "zero" on the M16 when I was in, but we spent a lot of rounds sight checking at 25m. Given the height of the sights on my Mattel rifle I would think that the arc of trajectory would make actual zero out at 250m or so?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

There's a secret to it. The secret is to do enough practice with your known load at known distances, and make notes of where you're hitting. After ENOUGH practice, you should be able to confidently know where you're going to hit at any given distance.

Its simpler to not have a goofy zero in the first place.

 

[henschman]

I think a 25/300m BSZ works great, especially with iron sights and using a 6 o'clock hold. Since the targets appear larger in your sight picture at the shorter ranges, where your rifle hits high, there are more MOA between the bottom edge of the target and the center of the target. This compensates somewhat for your tendency to hit high at close range. With an AR, your large aperture is 2 MOA lower than your small one, so if you have a 300m zero with your small aperture, flip to the large one and you will be at your 50/200m zero. The larger aperture is nice for close range shooting anyway.