30-06 bullet questions for M1

[Rmeju]

My Hornady manual has a different listing for M1 rounds and other 30-06 rounds. Can I use any 30-06 loads in an M1?

Specifically, I'm looking to load two 180 gr bullets (one of which is a ROUND nose and not a spitzer) and are only listed under the 30-06 entry, but not the M1 Garand entry.

Does any of this make a difference? I just don't want to wreck the gun (or hurt myself!)

Thanks!

Rmeju

 

[Sport45]

180 grain is the heaviest bullet recommended for use in a Garand. Don't try to make a magnum out of it and you should be fine. Use a powder that's not slower than IMR4320 or faster than IMR3031 and stay away from the max loads.

 

[medalguy]

Stick with IMR4895 as that was the powder specifically developed for the M1 rifle. The proper and safe functioning of this rifle depends on a pretty narrow pressure curve at the point when the bullet passes the gas port. Too high a pressure and you will bend/break the op rod. Loading for this rifle requires some pretty careful load development. I personally always try to stay as close to GI loads as possible. My .02, your mileage may vary.

 

[GRIZ22]

180 grain is the heaviest bullet recommended for use in a Garand.

Some will say a 168. That's the heaviest I've loaded.

Does any of this make a difference? I just don't want to wreck the gun (or hurt myself!)


It does make a difference as the M1 is designed to operate in a specific pressure range. This is not only a issue of too much pressure but of timing also. Military ammo was all designed to work within this range Check the ammunition section on the CMP forum.

If you have the need to shoot a wide variety of loads in an M1 I suggest you get an adjustable gas plug like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

 

[Rmeju]

Sorry, I should add a bit more info:

These rounds will be loaded using IMR 4895.

Further, there is no need nor desire on my part to make heavy loads. These will be strictly for plinking, and I am more than happy to use min. or near min loads if that is what is required to be safe.

The reason for all this is that I came into (and have a further cheap source of) 180 grain bullets, both spitzer and round nose. I like my M1 and want to shoot it, and don't care too much about what's coming out the barrel. I just want to be safe.

Can either 180 gr bullet be safely loaded without buying that adjustable gas plug, under the parameters I described above?

Thanks for all the advice so far. I really appreciate it.

Rmeju

 

[NCsmitty]

If you insist on using your 180gr bullets, you need to choose a load that will give you around 2500fps or less with them using IMR4895. 43gr should do it, but you need to reference a manual to verify properly. Your shooting for just under 50,000 psi, as that is the range of M2 ball.
Be aware that it is not recommended to use the heavy bullets in a standard Garand. It would be better to opt for an adjustable gas port.


NCsmitty

 

[jr_roosa]

Send me a message with your e-mail and I'll send you a copy of the American Rifleman article on reloading for the Garand.

It has loads for up to 200 grain bullets.

If you don't mind spending the $30 on an adjustable plug it's probably a good thing to have anyway since you can dial back the pressure for whatever load you happen to use, and you can pick up some off the shelf stuff if you're ever in a pinch.

Also if you use 4895 and keep the velocity in a similar range to what's listed for the heavy match bullets in the Hornady manual you probably won't run into much trouble. Also the main danger isn't blowing up the gun with too much pressure, but bending the operating rod with too much force.

Blowing up the gun is always a risk even with lighter bullets if you aren't careful with watching your headspace, primer seating, and condition of your brass.

-J.

 

[ol' scratch]

I have reloading data in my Hornady book for bullets up to 178 grains. I have loaded for my M1 using the Hornady book you mentioned with no problems. Keep in mind that the heavier bullets and slower powders can bend your op rod. I have used H4895 with good results in my M1.

I have been told you can use a Schuster gas plug you can run heavier bullets and different powders. I have one and it works well, but the heaviest bullet I have fired is 168 grain BTHP. You can find one here http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

When I started reloading for my M1, I pulled the gas plug and shot it single shot. I kept the enbloc out of it and single fed it. Remember that if you do this, ride the operating handle down.

Don't use Federal primers. It is not that they are not good, but they are softer. I have used Remington and they have worked well. Also, CCI and Winchester primers are harder to help prevent slam fires.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

According to Hodgdon 45.0gr IMR4895 will produce pressures of just under 50,000 PSI with a 180gr SIE SPBT using an OAL of 3.300". You can safely use a 180gr bullet as long as you keep the pressures down as not to damage the Opp Rod. (as the others have said)

 

[dmazur]

According to Hodgdon 45.0gr IMR4895 will produce pressures of just under 50,000 PSI with a 180gr SIE SPBT using an OAL of 3.300". You can safely use a 180gr bullet as long as you keep the pressures down as not to damage the Opp Rod. (as the others have said)

Not nitpicking, but this is a commonly misunderstood distinction, and relevant to the OP's question. It isn't chamber pressure that is the problem, but gas port pressure.

Gas port pressure is a function of the pressure curve developed by shooting a given poweder/bullet combination and cannot be determined by looking at chamber pressure.

Unfortunately, pressure curves aren't commonly published and we all wind up with adjustable gas plugs if we can't live within the limits of "Garand safe loads".

It is important to note that the adjustable gas plugs (gas cylinder lock screws) are not self-regulating. That is, each and every time you change loads, you need to start from wide-open and work smaller until you get reliable cycling, then stop.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

And how I understand it the reason we use 4895 is the pressure stops building before you the bullet reaches the gas port, no?

To be honest I've never loaded a 180gr bullet for any of my Garands but I have loaded 168gr bullets. I also use H4895 instead of IMR4895. All I did was inform the OP of the data published by Hodgdon, that load is safe according to them. As always I could be wrong but that's why we discuss it here, so in the end we can all get it right...

 

[NuJudge]

I tried to work up loads using 180gr bullets in the Garand many years ago, and regardless what I tried with the powders in the right burning range, nothing gave the kind of accuracy I got with bullets in the 150-165-168 grain range.

 

[dmazur]

And how I understand it the reason we use 4895 is the pressure stops building before you the bullet reaches the gas port, no?

If I can ever find that pressure curve in graphical form, I'll post a link to it. As I remember it, it is the "tail" of the curve that is critical, not the "peak" that occurs much earlier. The pressure peak occurs well before the bullet reaches the gas port and is the typical 50000 psi. By the time the bullet reaches the port, the pressure will have dropped to around 4000-6000 psi.

Even with powders that are no longer increasing pressure when the bullet has travelled 22", the "tail" can have too high a pressure. The pressure is decreasing during the "tail" but the pressure can still be too high.

IMR4895 (or slightly different loads of H4895) are used because the tail of the curve for this powder is "right". Not too high, and not too low.

The Garand has a very narrow operating window. The powder has to be right or the gas mechanism won't have the correct impulse to cycle. Too low = fail to chamber next round. Too high = receiver heel battering and bent op-rods.

I was trying to clarify, not be critical.

Edit: I found a curve. It's for AR-15 applications, but it shows how pressure falls as the distance down the barrel increases. The Garand curve would be a similar shape, though the numbers might be a little different.

View attachment 115023

 

[ol' scratch]

Here is a thread I started a few weeks ago about hunting with my M1 next fall. It had some good information regarding heavier bullets.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6235756#post6235756

Everyone seems to feel if you get an adjustable gas plug, you can shoot just about anything. My gunsmith and Garand junkie was the person who turned me on to the adjustable gas plug.

It has never been a concern with the rifle handling the load, but the pressure bending the op rod. Like many of the firearms from that era, they are over-engineered. Here is a link to a guy who modifies Garands to shoot .458 magnum.
http://www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/458garand/458garand.html

 

[Rmeju]

Thank you guys, this has been really educational. I'm an experienced pistol reloader, but still only a novice on the rifle reloading.

I'll consider the gas plug. Up to now, I've basically just been shooting 150 gr BTHPs, but like I said, I found a relatively cheap source of 180gr sierra bullets if I want them. It'd be great if I can make them work.

I appreciate all of the feedback so far.

Rmeju

 

[towerclimber37]

Hey guys, I read alot here but rarely post. I have a question for you.

I'm using Sierra 168gr. hpbt match king bullets and IMR 4064 powder. I need a safe load for my Garand and can't find load data for it. any help?

 

[Maj Dad]

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Hey guys, I read alot here but rarely post. I have a question for you.

I'm using Sierra 168gr. hpbt match king bullets and IMR 4064 powder. I need a safe load for my Garand and can't find load data for it. any help?

I substitute SMKs for the HDYs with no apparent variation (haven't chrono'd but performance is identical). Notice the first number after the OAL is starting, next is max.

Try Google search - you'd be amazed at what you can find...


168 GR. HDY HPBT IMR IMR 4320 .308" 3.230" 46.0 2646 48,900 PSI 49.7 2816 58,400 PSI
168 GR. HDY HPBT IMR IMR 4064 .308" 3.230" 47.0 2660 46,800 PSI 50.8 2850 57,900 PSI
168 GR. HDY HPBT Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 3.230" 46.0 2555 39,100 CUP 51.0 2767 49,200 CUP
168 GR. HDY HPBT IMR IMR 4895 .308" 3.230" 48.0 2719 49,900 PSI 51.2 2859 58,200 PSI
168 GR. HDY HPBT Hodgdon H335 .308" 3.230" 42.0 2459 39,900 CUP 46.5 2656 49,500 CUP
168 GR. HDY HPBT Hodgdon H4895 .308" 3.230" 43.0 2574 41,200 CUP 47.5 2789 50,000 CUP