30.06 or .223

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chief99

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As you know I am slowly getting closer to loading rifle . Will be loading .223 and 30.06 . Which would you advise that I start with ? I have IMR4064 on hand . This powder looks like little tubes . Does it have to be compressed and what does that mean ? What powder do you suggest that I start with ? Thanks . forgot to mention . Will be loading 55 gr. for 223 and 165 gr. for 30.06 .
 
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No reason not to start reloading both. Might choose the one you shoot the most. I almost think 30-06 is easier to reload just because of the smaller size of the .223 cases and bullets. Like loading a miniature 30-06.I would say that your 4064 powder would be fine for 30-06 with bullets in the 150 grain range. I would recommend another powder for .223 such as H335 for bullets up to 55 grains. Lots of options for both calibers. Just me but when I first started loading I started with the 30-06. Everything I learned loading 30-06 applies to the other bottleneck rifle calibers and since most don't shoot large volumes of 30-06, you won't be reloading in bulk like you might for .223. You can take your time on all processes and learn each step.
 
Load both. I would also look for some h335 for the 223. Does your lgs have a variety of powders in stock to choose from?
 
With .223, the first question is what bullet?
The weight of the "best" bullet will be governed by the twist rate of the barrel.
For instance, mine is a 1 in 9.
The rifling is best at stablizing projectiles in the 50-62 gr range.

So, then I'm looking for powders that best fit that range.
I've settled on 55gr bullets & either Varget or Reloder15 as my favorite powders.

I hope this hasn't confused you too much.
 
I haven't seen the reasons you decided to start reloading (consistency, special purpose ammo, affordability, etc) but all things remaining equal I'd start with with the one you spend the most money purchasing annually. I'd spend some time studying a reloading book such as Lyman's 49th. Your powder has several published loads for both 30-06 and .223 Rem. If you are using a drop type powder measure you may want to start with a ball powder of some sort because it will generally measure the most consistently with a drop. I'd also be very distrusting of the powder measure for quite some time, measuring every powder drop by hand the first few sessions. Even then I'd still hand weigh samples very frequently. I think the most important Hong to do is to really take your time, check yourself often, establish a work-flow that works for you and enables you to consistently load uniform cartridges. Until you can do that, then stick to the recommended starting loads, and I suggest sticking with a single carried he type until you can perfect it.
 
To me the 223 is as simple as rifle cases get. H335 and Hornady 55 gr sp bullets are a mainstay of mine.
IMR 4350 and 150 gr Hornady bullets will do a number out of your 06.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Good points in the above post #2 and I will add that the 30-06 will save you more money when you reload it as it is usually a more expensive loaded round to buy compared to the 223. But either one will work for you I am sure.;) The main benefit I see is as the post above says is the 30-06 is much bigger and therefore usually easier to work with. I would look in your manuals at your intended bullet weight with each caliber and look for a propellant that gives you a good velocity and reasonable pressure with a nearly full case. These seem to me to often be more stable in different temperatures so that is the way I try to choose my propellant.

Gee I type slow.:(
 
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I can't say one cartridge is anymore difficult to reload than the other. For me, the basic process of loading rifle cartridges is the same for 223 or 30-06.

I am a big fan of cartridge headspace gages. These gages are necessary to set up your sizing dies so you are either not oversizing or undersizing the case. The upper part of these cartridge headspace gages tell you the base to shoulder distance and after sizing, the base should not be below the low step or above the high step. This line drawing shows the basics:

CartridgeHeadspacegagelinedrawing.jpg

This is the actual difference between Go and No Go on a 308 gage, it is only 0.006". You will never actually be able to set the cartridge headspace between these parameters without a gage. The typical sizing die instructions are to turn the die to the shell holder and add a quarter turn. This has never worked for me, and after I purchased gages, I found that all my cases sized by this method were out of spec.

Wilsongagebetweengoandnogage308brass.jpg

ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg

The Wilson gage is cheaper than this Sheridan gage. The Wilson gage only measures shoulder to base distance, it does not provide a way to determine "fatness". Fatness is not really an issue for bolt rifles as the thing have massive cocking cams and you can beat the bolt down, or open, with a block of wood. However, if your ammunition is fired in a self loading rifle, then cartridge headspace and "fatness" are critical for function. There are lots of threads in this forum wherein the reloader had failures to extract because their case headspace was over length. This Sheridan gage is cut to a minimum SAAMI chamber size, so it will show either over length, underlength, and fat cases.

30-062020Sheridan20Engineering20case20gage_zps6873xiiy.jpg

I full length resize and I set my case shoulders back about 0.003" from the chamber headspace, but, if I don't know chamber headspace, I will size the cartridge down the low step. I do not believe in neck sizing or partial neck sizing, these techniques will only cause chambering and extraction issues in time. I want ammunition that perfectly feeds and perfectly extracts.

After sizing I always trim the cases. It is my recollection that my .223 cases are trimmed to 1.750" and my 30-06 cases, well I don't remember the number right now. The primary purpose of trimming is to keep the case neck from being pinched in the throat. If this happens, you will blow primers. I have never found any effect for varying trim length on accuracy, maybe some benchrester has, but in a hand held weapon, nah. I trim, I deburr and bevel the case mouth.

I clean primer pockets but I can positively say, I have not found any accuracy difference between clean or dirty pockets. For my gas gun ammunition, I want primers below the case head so I actually ream the pockets in that stuff and clean out the pocket residue. I set all rifle primers by hand, that is I use a Lee Auto Prime and I inspect each and every round to ensure that the primer is below the case head.

IMR 4064 will shoot outstandingly in either cartridge but you are going to have to weigh each charge for best results. You will find that IMR 4064 will clog the powder funnel on occasion in the 223, the stuff is long grained and that is one of the issues with long grained powder. Long grained powders don't throw worth a hoot. If you have to crunch IMR 4064 in the 223 case, don't worry about it. I tried some IMR 4350 loads in the 308 Win, the case was full of the powder and I crunched the bullet down, and, I could see the bullet rising as the powder pushed back!. It never made any difference over my chronograph.

I do not have any loads for IMR 4064 in the 223, but with a 165 grain bullet in the 30-06, try 48.0 grains of IMR 4064. I tested 168 Match bullets with this load and it was accurate and not a hot load. Stay away from maximum loads.
 
Pick one to learn on. Run it for a few weeks until your comfortable with rifle then pick up the other. I suggest starting with the 30-06 simply because it's bigger and easier to handle. Another good thing when your learning is to give yourself wiggle room for small mistakes. A .1 gr mischarge is not so big of a problem in a bigger case, in a smaller case it can be amplified to become problematic. Another thing to consider is your platform. If your running a bolt rifle on one and a semiauto on the other, go with the simpler platform. One big thing to note in '06 is if your running a garand to not get out of garand level loads, op rods are not indestructible.
 
I documented every thing I learned as I started reloading. I hoped it would help someone else.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=757660

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=770731

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758721

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=770842

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771034

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=774596

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=774720

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=775888


I only load two rifle cartridges, 223 and 30-06, just like you.
My powders are:
HODGDON H335
RAM SHOT TAC
IMR 4895
RAMSHOT BIG GAME
SUPERFORMANCE

There are loads for .223 and .30-06 for every one of those powders except BIG GAME and SUPERFORMACE.
The H335 and TAC are primarily for the 223 and the other for the 30-06.
I am going to get some VARGET as well that also has loads for both.
 
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I'm also going to suggest you start with the 30-06 and besides it being easier to handle, which it is, you already have a good powder to load it with. No, you do not have to compress extruded powders. Actually, it's better not to if you don't have to. Compressing the powder mearly means you are loading over 100% case capacity. I have found my best accuracy comes from using a powder that will fill the case between 95% & 100%.

I load a 165/168gr bullet in the 30-06 and I like 4350 best but 4895 and 4064 are very popular powders for the 30-06. You will find good accurate loads with 4064.
 
All depends on the brass. You may or may not need to deal with crimped primer pockets. Depending on how much you shoot, you will eventually need to trim, and anneal. As far as powders there are lots that work, some better than others. Your rifle will tell you which ones it prefers. What works in mine rifle may not work in yours. There are lots of powder out there but you need to decide on what equipment your using. If running a AP you will like ball and small flake powders. Some powder dispensers handles ones better than the other. I like ball powders when running on my AP due to very consistent drops. If your using an digital powder dispenser all work fine once you learn how to program them for optimum performance. Or the old fail safe way of using the dispenser to dump low than hand dribble the final 0.5 gr. For high volume you will like the ball powders the best. Just easier to dispense.

As far as case gauges go there are many different ways to go. The bottom line is that it must fit your chamber. It's best not over size the brass to get optimum brass life. With bolt guns you can get by by just neck sizing. Where simi-Autos require full length for reliable operations.
 
Which one do you shoot most ? Maybe start there ?

You will likely need different powders for these two calibers. Not positive, but I use a different powder for 30-06 than I do for .223.

Also are they both bolt rifles or is the .223 an autoloader ? In my opinion only it is easier to load for a bolt action that an autoloader, so maybe start with the bolt action if one is a bolt. That is not to say it is difficult to load for an AR, just more going on. The bolt action rifle is a pretty simple action.

-Jeff
 
I have had great luck with IMR-4064 as well as IMR-3031 for AR 5.56 and 30-06, as well as 300 WM.

Great powder

Dan
 
If you're using military brass in either caliber you'll have to deal with the crimped primers.
My reasoning for recommending starting with 223 is that it is overall cheaper to shoot and learn. Less powder, cheaper bullets and brass.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
You haven't specified barrel length for .223 but for a longer barrel give the IMR 4064 a try with the 55's: I use a similar speed H4895 in a 30" bbl and get very good results with minimal charges. FWIW I have found that filling any empty space in the neck with a small-repeat-small amount of loose polyfill wadding helps to seal and lubricate when using thin-jacketed bullets, just be sure to watch fouling and use a brush as needed (not necessary for FMJ's IMO). Best of luck to you.
 
Start with 30-06. You already have a suitable powder, and if you've priced ammo lately, you are going to save far more money loading 30-06 than loading 223.
 
IMR4064 was "the" powder preferred by top ranked competitors shooting 160 to 180 grain match bullets winning matches and setting records.

Regarding:
If you are using a drop type powder measure you may want to start with a ball powder of some sort because it will generally measure the most consistently with a drop.
Yes, ball powders meter more uniform charge weights, but exact charge weights of ball powers have never equalled the accuracy of IMR4064 having a 3/10ths grain spread with 168-gr. bullets in .30-06 ammo properly tested in accurate rifles. Same thing with the .308 Winchester. There's a good reason ball powder charges are not popular in competition; they're too hard to ignite and burn consistently. Which is why the benchrest folks throw extruded powder into primed cases direct from measures with a 2/10ths grain spread for best accuracy through 300 yards.

Good example was when Lake City changed operating company from Remington to Winchester. Winchester used a ball powder (W856?) with a 1/10th grain spread to get best accuracy in 7.62 NATO M118 match ammo with 172-gr. FMJBT bullets. Best they could get was about 3 MOA at 600 yards. When Remington run the army ammo plant, they got about 2 MOA at 600 with IMR4895 in their best lots of ammo with a 3/10ths grain spread.
 
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Personally I have found .30-06 to be much easier to resize than .223. I stuck several cases with .223, even using imperial sizing wax, and pretty much gave up when supply returned. Next panic I guess I'll have to learn.
 
For me, it comes down to usage. .223 is for fun, I'll reload 500 at a time. As others have said, use the proper gauge for them, so they always function out of an AR, if that's your intended weapon. Powder choices are different, and I buy it by the 8lb keg.

.30-06 is a functional gun, that I use for hunting. I want very good accuracy, so these are loaded in batches of 20 at a time at most. Much more care can be exercised. I use a single stage and weigh every charge for precision. Powders are chosen by accuracy not bulk per se. Depending on the bullet weight I'm using.

I actually find .30-06 more fun to reload for.. YMMV.
 
I would start with 30 06. With 223 there's primer crimps and the small cases tend to trap more corn cob media, and I too have only stuck 223 brass in my resizing die. Not saying it's not easy to load 223, just that 30 06 is a little easier in my experience.
 
My thoughts:

I own rifles in 223 as well as several other larger calibers including 30-06. I load for all of them except 223. I can buy factory loads cheap enough that I can't justify the time spent loading them. I'm sitting on several thousand rounds of FMJ bought cheap years ago for plinking and still stock up when I find bargains.

I use these for hunting and where more accuracy is needed. They work out to about $14/20 rounds and I can't load anything any more accurate. I might save a couple of bucks reloading 20 rounds, but my time is worth something.
http://www.georgia-arms.com/223-remington-60gr-hornady-v-max/

I spend about $1/round to load 30-06 and other centerfires with quality bullets and I can get better accuracy and speeds than factory loads. With the premium stuff selling for $50+/20 rounds it is worth my time to load these.
 
Reason for reloading

Thanks for all the advice . Think I will start with 06 . And to Coloradominuteman I have been loading pistols since 2011 . 380, 38, 40 and 45 . I use my 06 for hunting and my 223 just for fun . I just thought I could gain more experience by loading for rifle , and I think it would be pretty neat to drop a whitetail with a bullet that you made your self .
One more question . Besides the press could some one supply me with a list of all the stuff I will need to load rifle . I already have the Lyman accutrimmer and Imperial wax . This would help me a great deal . I also have 3 manuals , Lee, Speer and lyman 49 . Thanks .
 
A gauge to measure case headspace; RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady LNL. Both lets you measure case headspace after the round's fired and again after full length sizing it. You should set the fired case shoulder back about .002" for best accuracy and long case life. People doing this have got 50 reloads with max charges with .30-06 cases; won matches and set records doing it.
 
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