Powder recommendations...

[mickeydim468]

I load for the .243 Win and the 30.06. I will be loading for Deer in the .243 and for Elk in the 30.06. I think I will be going with 100Gr Speer soft point boat tails in .243 and 165Gr Speer soft point boat tails in my 30.06.

I have a few questions...

I have loaded nosler BT boat tail 95 Gr for the .243 using H4350 powder. Is this powder the one you would recommend for the Speer bullets?

I have also loaded Speer Hot Core 150Gr with the H4350 powder as well for my 30.06. Would you still use this powder for the bullets listed above?

I have both H4350 and H4895 powders in stock, but could get other powder if the consensus is to use something different. What are your recommendations?

I am still new to reloading so your help is really appreciated.

Thanks!

Mikey!

 

[NCsmitty]

H4350 will do the job in both calibers as you already know. It provides near top velocity in both, but I would suggest using at least a good 165gr bullet in the 30'06 for elk size game for more reliable penetration and expansion. 150gr Hot Core will work, but can fragment at close range on heavy bone.
I would suggest a premium (bonded core) style bullet, if they are accurate in your rifle.

You need to make sure your 243 will shoot the 100gr boattail, as it depends on your barrel twist. I've heard of some problems stabilizing the longer bullets in some rifles.


NCsmitty

 

[mickeydim468]

Thank you for your reply Smitty!

I have not shot my .243 with this bullet yet. The rifle I will be shooting it with is my Weatherby Vangard. Do you have any experience shooting these Speer 100Gr boat tails with this model rifle?

My 30.06 is my M1917 Remington which was sporterized and the barrel was shortened to 20", so my velocities will not be as high as what the reference material I have states, which is why I chose the boat tail in this case. I figure it will probably give me closer to the published velocity, than the Hot Core bullet will, and therefore will be better at a closer distance than they normally would be in a 24" rifle. Am I way off track in my estimates?

Mikey!

 

[NCsmitty]

Do you have any experience shooting these Speer 100Gr boat tails with this model rifle?

I've loaded the 100gr Hornady BTSP for 243 using H4895 and used in a Remington 788 with good results.

For the '06, I'm guessing you'll lose around 100+ fps from 24" barrel length estimates in your 20". Still plenty of steam for the job. The boattail will give you a little edge over the flatbase Hot Core at longer range.


NCsmitty

 

[mickeydim468]

You say at longer range, how much longer? I doubt any of my hunting this year will be any longer than 150 to 200 yards if that. Should I bump up to 180 Hot Core and call it a day with the 4895 powder. I would start with minimum and work up but I don't think I will want to get it too hot if you know what I mean? The barrel is 91 years old as it is. It still shoots pretty darn straight still though. Best 5 shot group was .97 at 100yds.

Is the 100Gr Hornady BTSP a pretty comparable bullet to the one I listed above? I think my barrel has a 1 in 10 twist. Is that too fast or slow for these bullets?

 

[NCsmitty]

You say at longer range, how much longer? I doubt any of my hunting this year will be any longer than 150 to 200 yards if that.

The difference at 200yds is negligible, probably less than an inch in drop. It does increase steadily and is several inches at 500yds.

Should I bump up to 180 Hot Core and call it a day with the 4895 powder.

I would stick with the slower H4350 with whatever bullet that you select, if it proves accurate.
As I stated, I prefer 165gr in the '06, but the 150gr that you have will suffice.
If you want, use 180gr if they are accurate, as they do hit hard too and would work well to 200+yds without worrying about trajectory.
The 30'06 is a versatile caliber and will do the job if you do your part.

Is the 100Gr Hornady BTSP a pretty comparable bullet to the one I listed above? I think my barrel has a 1 in 10 twist. Is that too fast or slow for these bullets?

A 1in10 is marginal with those 100gr boattail style bullets. Remington uses a 1in9.125 in their barrels to handle the longer bullets. You just have to try the 100gr and see. The Hornady is pretty close to the Speer, I believe.
The 95 Gr Nosler BT boat tail that you mentioned might be the bullet to use if it is accurate and a proven load in your rifle.


NCsmitty

 

[sourdough44]

I'd consider yourself covered. H 4350 for heavy bullets in either & H4895 for light.

 

[mbkmkk]

H4895 works very well in the 30-06 and found it great when loading for my BAR. After 200 yards, you will see the drop off in velocity and a difference when using medium powders and a slower powders.

I agree with NCsmitty, regarding the 95 Ballistic Tip Nosler. They would be the best for hunting and even group very well on paper and have worked very well in my 243 Winchester rifles and my 243 WSSM AR’s

 

[mickeydim468]

OK, So Nosler 95Gr using the H4350 in my .243 Win for deer and in my '06 I should use what bullet/powder combo? I am confused. :banghead: It's been a long day and I have a total headache. Maybe I should just go to bed for a while and come back and read this later.

Mikey!

 

[Afy]

N-550?

 

[mbkmkk]

H4350 and H4895 powders are both fine for 165/168 bullets. Some people prefer a slower powder and some prefer a medium powder. You need to load a few up and see how they group on paper with the Speer bullet you are going to use. Max loads are not generally the most accurate loads, so back the load off a couple grains. You should always work your load up from the minimum load.

 

[mickeydim468]

Is 165/168Gr going to be good enough for elk? or should I take the leap and go to 180Gr. Now I am even wondering if I should even go with speer's SPBTs or if I should go for a premium bullet.

BTW, I went out and bought the Lyman 49th edition that everyone on here raves about. I do not understand why you all rave, the thing costs 25 bucks and gives half of the load data as Lee's manual. I couldn't even find one load that uses the H4350 or the H4895 powders in it. What a waste of money. I can't even take it back. It was in sealed plastic and once plastic is removed no returns. I could have gotten another pound of powder for that price and still have money for a soda.

Rant over! Did I mention I am tired and have a headache?

I thought I did.

Mikey!

 

[NCsmitty]

OK, So Nosler 95Gr using the H4350 in my .243 Win for deer and in my '06 I should use what bullet/powder combo?

mickeydim468
I suggest using the Nosler 95Gr with the H4350 in your .243 Win for deer. I'm guessing it's a proven load in your rifle.

In the 30'06, use the 165Gr Speer soft point boat tails with H4350, that you mentioned in your first post, if they shoot well.

Go to the www.hodgdon.com site and view the loads listed. You'll see that H4350 does many bullet weights in both calibers very well.

NCsmitty

 

[mbkmkk]

Go to the www.hodgdon.com site and view the loads listed.

I like Hodgdon reloading info also.

Is 165/168Gr going to be good enough for elk? or should I take the leap and go to 180Gr.

For Elk a 165/168 will be fine as long a it is a good performance bullet. A 180 would be better but a good performance bullet is also needed.

 

[mickeydim468]

Thanks guys.

I have not worked either one of the loads listed in either rifle yet. I will be making some this week and testing them this Saturday. This is why I wanted to know now, so I can load for them and do my testing of the load. Then I will buy some cheapo bullets of the same type and weight and practice my shooting to make sure I am doing my part when the time comes. I will be trying different real world holds on each rifle so I can be sure that when the time comes that muscle memory will become a large factor, and I won't likely have a bad shot placement at that time.

Then a week or so before the actual hunt I will load my hunting cartridges and go out to the range and make sure they sight in the way I expect they will. If I have any tweaking to do I will get it done at that time and be good to go come hunt day!

I am really nervous about getting things right as this will be my first hunt ever. I'm 41 and feel like a kid again about this hunt. It should be a successful one as me and my neighbor will be designing the hunt from now until October and will be doing our scouting from now until then as well. You guys are great and very helpful and I really do appreciate it.

Mikey!

P.S. I took my Lyman 49th book back and they reluctantly gave me my money back. I was able to get some other stuff for my guns in it's place that I think is a better use of the money anyway. I got a powder trickler and 2- 100 cartridge boxes and a cleaning rod with the money. So, no harm no foul!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

mickeydim468,
In the '06 I would use H4350 for a 165gr and definitely for a 180gr bullet. Either the 165gr or the 180gr bullet will work well for Elk, shoot the one that shoots best in your rifle. One thing though, you will want to use a bullet that will hit hard and crush bone while penetrating when hunting large animals like Elk. I would suggest a premium bullet like Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX or Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet.

I don't load for the .243 so I can't comment on that caliber...

 

[mickeydim468]

I went ahead and made up 100 cartridges last night to test in my .243 Win. I used the H4350 powder and 100Gr Speer BTSP bullets. I made up 40 cartridges using 37Gr, 20 each of these weights as well to test and see which gives best results; 38Gr, 39Gr, and 40Gr. I will do similar for the loads for the cartridges for my 30-06.

This will be the first time I have ever loaded more than the minimum recommended amount from the reloading data book and I am a little nervous.

What do I look for in my rifle as far as over pressure.

I spent all afternoon/evening yesterday making up these cartridges. I weighed every one to make sure they were perfect. I do not want to blow up my rifles or WORSE!

Thanks,

Mikey!

 

[BsChoy]

If velocity is an issue I get 3100 fps from my 22 inch remmy with 61.0 of H4350 and 150 grain bullets. it is a great powder for the '06. I get 2700 for 180 Nosler partition as well

 

[The Bushmaster]

Ya might even have a look at H4831SC for the .30-06 165 grain and heavier bullets...

 

[mickeydim468]

I made up 40 cartridges for my 30-06 using Speer 150Gr Hot Cor and 47Gr H4895.

I am going to make up 60 more today using H4350 and Speer 165Gr BTSPs.

Would 10 of each load be enough to get a good idea of how they do in my rifle?

I thought I would go ahead and make 10 of each load. 54Gr, 55Gr, 56Gr, 57Gr, 58Gr, and 59Gr, weighing out each one.

Is this a good plan?

Mikey!

Ya might even have a look at H4831SC for the .30-06 165 grain and heavier bullets...

Bushmaster,

I had a hard enough time trying to get together what I have right now, with the H4350 and H4895. (Does my frustration with the current reloading component shortage show?) I will keep an eye out for that powder, but why would you recommend that powder over the 2 I have?

I like your signature quote by the way!

 

[GooseGestapo]

I always use 3 shots at each powder charge. Also, max with the 95-100gr bullets is usally listed at 42.5gr in older publications.
However, my Stevens 200 prefered 40.0gr. (fwiw, 42.5gr of RL22 gave better results at over 3,050fps and 1/2moa 3-shot groups should you wish to try something different in the future....)

I think that you'll find that between 40.0 and 42.0gr of H4350 will be what you're looking for in your .243.
I prefered the 100g Hornady flat-based softpoint interlok in my .243's. The Nosler 95gr and the Hornady 100gr BTSP didn't give me good penetration. I lost a couple of deer due to each bullet. At close range they have excessive expansion.

For closer range hunting with the .243 I much prefered the 105gr Speer.


In the .30/06, you won't be able to get enough H4350 in the case for excessive pressure with the 150gr bullet. 60.0gr Has given me the best accuracy with the 150.
However, for the 150's I always use a faster powder, (typically Reloader 15 or BL-C2/Win748) for higher velocities.

With the 165gr-180gr bullets in the .30/06, It dosen't get any better than the H4350.
Just yesterday, I was at the range and shot my Colt Lt.Rifle (Colt/Saco copy of the Ult Lt Arms). From my 24"bbl, I got 2,775fps from the 180gr Sierra FlatBase, and sub-moa 3-shot groups, using 55.0gr of H4350. Corrected to the muzzle, the load gave 2,800fps so I don't plan on changing it. H4831 at 60.0gr gave identical velocities and equal accuracy. 60.0gr of RL22 gave 2,825fps but, wasn't as accurate.

57.0g of H4350 and a 165gr bullet has been a standout load for every .30/06 I've ever shot it in. It gave 2,860fps from my 24" bbls. Three shot groups frequently go under 3/4moa and occasionally 1-hole groups. Not bad for a 6lb rifle !

I'd substitute Sierra the Nosler 165gr Partition for Elk and call it good.

My brother uses the 150gr Partitions in his .308wcf at 2,850fps, and hasn't lost a well hit elk. All except one only took one shot. (One lost was hit too far back due to wind drift error). He hasn't recovered a bullet yet, either. So, the '06 with a 165gr should be a little "more-better"......

 

[mickeydim468]

Thanks for your info about the powders for my rifles, but what are the signs of pressure I should look out for tomorrow at the range?

I will be loading the rest of my 30-06 cases today and will be shooting them tomorrow and I want to make sure I know what to look for as I am using larger loads than I ever have loaded for before.

Please help with this!

 

[moosehunt]

Regarding the '06: First off, 165 gr bullet is fine for elk, though 180 mght be generally considered as a bit better, especially since you indicated that you won't be taking long shots. I always advocate a premium bullet for hunting, flavor of your choice, as there are many fine ones available now days. As to your testing, your jumps are way too large at a full grain. Load three each at 0.3 gr intervals, then select the best 2 or three and do five more of each. 3 shots per loading won't really nail down your best load, but it will eliminate a lot of them, then shoot 5 shot groups to narrow things down more. Then, when you think you have THE one (or maybeso 2) shoot 2 5 shot groups for a final test. Each to his own, but I generally start about mid to slightly above book specs and work up. I always move up, checking preasure signs in case things get to hot, and have on occasion had to skip the top loading, or maybeso top 2. But why wast time and ammo on lighter loadings (for hunting loads)? Full bore loads in 165 and even more so in 180 gr are going to be less than enjoyable to practice a lot wit. I suggest lighter bullets and lighter loads for your practice, then just before the season, sight in with your hunting loads. It's practice with the gun that you want, and the load makes no difference, except you'll practice more and gain more with lighter loads--and they are cheaper to boot.

As to the .243 (Win?): First, I suggest you are loosing the .243 advantage with the big 95 or 100 gr bullets. The .243 will do it's intended job better with 90 gr or even 80 & 85 gr bullets, and they are plenty + adequate for deer. H4350 is great for the .243 Win., indeed Dupont (now IMR) 4350 is generally considered the gold standard for it, and the two are VERY similar. Again, regardless of caliber/cartridge, I always advocate premium bullets for hunting. They aren't that expensive if you just consider the number required to work up a load, then 2-4 to sight in come hunting time, and 1-2 for the hunt. No advantage in practicing with those high dollar bullets.

 

[NCsmitty]

what are the signs of pressure I should look out for tomorrow at the range?

Watch for sticky or more effort to open the bolt than normal after firing. If that occurs, then drop back to the previous load as your rifle's max load.

Give your cases a visual after firing, and if you have any anomalies like smoking down the case past the shoulder, that will indicate that you are not developing enough pressure and the load is too light.

Don't worry, you will not blow up your rifles using the data listed by you. Concentrate on your shooting technique and more than likely, you'll have your load for hunting.

I always use 5 shot groups to better indicate a load's tendency for consistency.


NCsmitty