aka108
Member
Stick with a size that you can walk into any shop that sells ammo even if in small quantities and know that it will be on the shelf.
30-06 replacement
- Thread starter jrbaker90
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Which leaves you with the .30-30, .30-06, .270, .243, .308 and, out west at least, the .300 Win Mag.
I make it a point to pack the ammo before I even pack the rifle. Just going in and buying ammo when on a hunt is a certain recipe for a miss or, even worse, a wounded animal. No thanks.
I make it a point to pack the ammo before I even pack the rifle. Just going in and buying ammo when on a hunt is a certain recipe for a miss or, even worse, a wounded animal. No thanks.
USSR
Member
It's a post '64 model. The "G" prefix on serial numbers began in 1968.
Don
Andrew Leigh
Member
To the OP.
Make a list of what your requirements are, on paper, this may focus the mind;
- Max range (be realistic) don't by a 500yd gun for the vague possibility that you might get a shot, one day, at 500yds. I personally do not think that one should be shooting deer at over 300yds, it is an ethical thing for me.
- The cost of ammo, a 300Win Mag could get rather expensive, those are large cases.
- The availabilty of off the shelf ammo if you find yourself in a pickle.
-How often the rifle will be used, you say only for hunting and that would mean a couple of shots a year. The 30-06 is the perfect rifle for this. A new rifle deserves more than a couple of shots a year.
- Why you REALLY want a new rifle and not any BS you may be feeding yourself ...... we all do it.
- You state you want a flat shooting rifle, ain't no such thing, we all have to use holdover points, it is just the degree of which is different.
- Do you reload.
You have more rifle than what you need and that is exactly why you are struggling with the choice. Now "wants" are more fickle things as you are finding out.
Go get yourself a .375 H&H and that will complete your hunting triad, to get another .300 calibre, or one close to it would be pointless in my opinion. You seem bent on a larger calibre so go the whole nine yards.
Make a list of what your requirements are, on paper, this may focus the mind;
- Max range (be realistic) don't by a 500yd gun for the vague possibility that you might get a shot, one day, at 500yds. I personally do not think that one should be shooting deer at over 300yds, it is an ethical thing for me.
- The cost of ammo, a 300Win Mag could get rather expensive, those are large cases.
- The availabilty of off the shelf ammo if you find yourself in a pickle.
-How often the rifle will be used, you say only for hunting and that would mean a couple of shots a year. The 30-06 is the perfect rifle for this. A new rifle deserves more than a couple of shots a year.
- Why you REALLY want a new rifle and not any BS you may be feeding yourself ...... we all do it.
- You state you want a flat shooting rifle, ain't no such thing, we all have to use holdover points, it is just the degree of which is different.
- Do you reload.
You have more rifle than what you need and that is exactly why you are struggling with the choice. Now "wants" are more fickle things as you are finding out.
Go get yourself a .375 H&H and that will complete your hunting triad, to get another .300 calibre, or one close to it would be pointless in my opinion. You seem bent on a larger calibre so go the whole nine yards.
finnwolf64
Member
You don't need a rifle with longer range & better accuracy than a 30-06 can offer, you just need to practice more. A poor worker often blames his tools.
Kachok
Member
Fact of the matter is that the 30-06 can be more then accurate and powerful enough for 500yd hunting with the proper high BC bullets. The secret is that it takes plenty of practice to shoot accuratly at that kind of range, I don't care if you are shooting a 308 or 300 Ultra Mag you have to adjust for alot drop and windage at that kind of range.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Me too.
Ridgerunner665
Member
A better deer round than the 30-06?
That seems to be a popular question these days...but just what is "better"? Flatter shooting? Harder hitting?
Lets tackle the "flatter shooting" question first...
A 30-06 firing a 165 grain Nosler Accubond...
MV = 2,855 fps, ME 2,985 ft. lbs.
At 300 yards...using the BC generated by Bryan Litz and sighted in for 250 yards (appx. 2.75" high at 100 yards)
V= 2,293 fps E= 1,927 ft. lbs....drop = 4"
At 400 yards...
V= 2,122 fps E= 1,650 ft. lbs......drop = a little over 16"
At 500 yards...
V= 1,958 fps E= 1,404 ft. lbs...drop = 37"
At 600 yards...about as far away as I care for hunting, gets really hard to see horns on a whitetail past this range unlerss you use a REALLY big (expensive) scope.
V= 1,800 fps E= 1,187 ft. lbs...drop= 67"
Now thats all kinds of power and then some for a whitetail even at 600 yards, and if you use a scope that can be easily dialed its easy enough to dial up 10.75 MOA and let it fly...if you can read the wind (thats another thread altogether) you will kill that deer dead as a hammer...plain and simple.
270 Winchester...
You hear a lot about the great old 270 Winchester being "flatter shooting" than the 30-06...also the 270 WSM. These are both fine rounds, my wife hunts with a 270 Win and loves its low recoil, which is the only real advantage it has over the 30-06.
130 grain Ballistic Tip @ 3,000 fps MV...the 30-06 has the 270 beat all to pieces in the energy department, all the way across the board so we'll concentrate on trajectory here for the most part. And the sight in distance is the same...250 yards.
Drop at 300 yards...3.5" (a whopping .5" better than the 30-06...no usable difference, really)
At 400 yards...15" (again...only 1" better than the 30-06, no usable difference)
At 500 yards...34" (only 3" better than the 30-06...still no usable difference)
At 600 yards...62"....5 inches better than the 30-06, but still not really enough to matter, especially when you considider that the 270 doesn't even carry 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy to this range...It has ran out of steam, so to speak. With 140 grain bullets the energy is better, and the drop is all but identical to the 30-06.
Conclusion...270 vs. 30-06.
The one and only advantage the 270 has over the 30-06 is less recoil...nothing more, nothing less. Even with a 270 WSM...you won't have any usable difference in trajectory until you get past 400 yards. It takes a magnum caliber to do anything better than the 30-06...
Now...30-06 vs. 300 WSM.
Basically the same as the 270 WSM...no real advantage until you get PAST 400 yards.
I'm not trying to start a caliber debate here...not at all...just trying to make it very clear that the old 30-06 is a darn fine deer round out to 400 yards even in the hands of "the average shooter"...and in the hands of a more experienced shooter 600-800 yards is no problem at all, with proper bullet selection.
If a person just wants a new rifle in a new caliber...thats fine, get one...but get it with your facts straight.
I laid this spike to rest Sunday using my Winchester M70 in 30-06...that lil bloody spot you see there is where the bullet hit him.
He was all the way across this field...350 yards away, just out of the trees.
I made that shot with a heck of a cross wind coming from about 1 o'clock...put that bullet in his spine just as pretty as you please. He wouldn't turn broadside so I slipped it in there when he turned just enough to expose it.
That seems to be a popular question these days...but just what is "better"? Flatter shooting? Harder hitting?
Lets tackle the "flatter shooting" question first...
A 30-06 firing a 165 grain Nosler Accubond...
MV = 2,855 fps, ME 2,985 ft. lbs.
At 300 yards...using the BC generated by Bryan Litz and sighted in for 250 yards (appx. 2.75" high at 100 yards)
V= 2,293 fps E= 1,927 ft. lbs....drop = 4"
At 400 yards...
V= 2,122 fps E= 1,650 ft. lbs......drop = a little over 16"
At 500 yards...
V= 1,958 fps E= 1,404 ft. lbs...drop = 37"
At 600 yards...about as far away as I care for hunting, gets really hard to see horns on a whitetail past this range unlerss you use a REALLY big (expensive) scope.
V= 1,800 fps E= 1,187 ft. lbs...drop= 67"
Now thats all kinds of power and then some for a whitetail even at 600 yards, and if you use a scope that can be easily dialed its easy enough to dial up 10.75 MOA and let it fly...if you can read the wind (thats another thread altogether) you will kill that deer dead as a hammer...plain and simple.
270 Winchester...
You hear a lot about the great old 270 Winchester being "flatter shooting" than the 30-06...also the 270 WSM. These are both fine rounds, my wife hunts with a 270 Win and loves its low recoil, which is the only real advantage it has over the 30-06.
130 grain Ballistic Tip @ 3,000 fps MV...the 30-06 has the 270 beat all to pieces in the energy department, all the way across the board so we'll concentrate on trajectory here for the most part. And the sight in distance is the same...250 yards.
Drop at 300 yards...3.5" (a whopping .5" better than the 30-06...no usable difference, really)
At 400 yards...15" (again...only 1" better than the 30-06, no usable difference)
At 500 yards...34" (only 3" better than the 30-06...still no usable difference)
At 600 yards...62"....5 inches better than the 30-06, but still not really enough to matter, especially when you considider that the 270 doesn't even carry 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy to this range...It has ran out of steam, so to speak. With 140 grain bullets the energy is better, and the drop is all but identical to the 30-06.
Conclusion...270 vs. 30-06.
The one and only advantage the 270 has over the 30-06 is less recoil...nothing more, nothing less. Even with a 270 WSM...you won't have any usable difference in trajectory until you get past 400 yards. It takes a magnum caliber to do anything better than the 30-06...
Now...30-06 vs. 300 WSM.
Basically the same as the 270 WSM...no real advantage until you get PAST 400 yards.
I'm not trying to start a caliber debate here...not at all...just trying to make it very clear that the old 30-06 is a darn fine deer round out to 400 yards even in the hands of "the average shooter"...and in the hands of a more experienced shooter 600-800 yards is no problem at all, with proper bullet selection.
If a person just wants a new rifle in a new caliber...thats fine, get one...but get it with your facts straight.
I laid this spike to rest Sunday using my Winchester M70 in 30-06...that lil bloody spot you see there is where the bullet hit him.
He was all the way across this field...350 yards away, just out of the trees.
I made that shot with a heck of a cross wind coming from about 1 o'clock...put that bullet in his spine just as pretty as you please. He wouldn't turn broadside so I slipped it in there when he turned just enough to expose it.
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Ridgerunner665
Member
If you don't get out and practice...you'll never be able to reliably make hits at 5-600 yards, not even with a 338 Lapua...this is why ammo price and recoil tolerance REALLY matters.
You need to fire AT LEAST 500 rounds per year...and more is better.
You need to fire AT LEAST 500 rounds per year...and more is better.
I guess I am just looking for excuse to get another rifle I know the 30-06 is the most versatile carriage out there but I am wanting another one. I have looked at a Mauser 257 roberts for 225 and it make me think about getting it but I thought it might be to close to my 243 but it's such a nice gun that it would be worth it if it was close to it. Of all the cartridges I have talk about the 2 that stand out the most are the 7mag and the 300wsm he most with the 7mag first because of bullet availability thanks
Ridgerunner665
Member
And I understand wanting to try the new calibers...not trying to discourage you at all, just trying to "keep it real", LOL.
If I were you...I'd get a 300 WSM...I almost did, but decided I'd keep it old school
.
If I were you...I'd get a 300 WSM...I almost did, but decided I'd keep it old school
.
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,415
I agree with Ridgerunner. An article in Chuckhawks recommended the .308 as he considers maximum hunting range 300 yards. If you shoot 500 yards the 30-06 is hard to beat. You pretty much need to magnum, 7mm, 300 WM, 300 H&H etc. non mags like the 280 Remington or 7-08 are alternatives that are viable. For long range I do not like less than 7mm as bullet construction becomes much more critical at long range the smaller the bullet is and the wider range of velocity it has to kill at. But then I don't take prisoners when I hunt.
Kachok wrote
Yours is one of the newer FN made guns. It uses a different trigger than the U S Repeating Arms guns. My post 64 USRA model 70 had 2 nuts you could loosen & move to adjust the trigger pull. I did have to take the rifle out of its stock & turn the nuts with a couple of ignition wrenches. I also banged the butt of the rifle on the floor with it cocked a couple of times after I put it back together to make sure I had not gone too light. From what I understand it you go too light the rifle can discharge from being hit or dropped.
To the OP if you want another gun & have the money get what you want. I really like my post 64 model 70 in .30-06 & plan to keep using it for a long time to come.
Yours is one of the newer FN made guns. It uses a different trigger than the U S Repeating Arms guns. My post 64 USRA model 70 had 2 nuts you could loosen & move to adjust the trigger pull. I did have to take the rifle out of its stock & turn the nuts with a couple of ignition wrenches. I also banged the butt of the rifle on the floor with it cocked a couple of times after I put it back together to make sure I had not gone too light. From what I understand it you go too light the rifle can discharge from being hit or dropped.
To the OP if you want another gun & have the money get what you want. I really like my post 64 model 70 in .30-06 & plan to keep using it for a long time to come.
morcey2
Member
So it's a religious gun?
sorry. I drew the short straw and had to work today. and _nothing_ is going on. Which is good.
This is an old thread but I will jump in anyway.
30-06 is the best all around deer rifle in the woods today. The M70 is a fine weapon in any caliber so take it to a gunsmith and get it right. I have one in 25-06. Don't sell that gun! Unless you want to sell it to me.
With that said there are umpteen different calibers that will do everything you want. I like the fact that every LGS and Walmart pretty much carries 30-06, 243, 270, 30-30 and such but for a deer hunting rifle that is not usually a major issue since a box has 20 cartridges and you might use 4-5 per year actually shooting at deer. I have never used more than two boxes of any one shell in a year and that was when sighting in a new scope and hunting all year.
I like my 243, my 30-30(s), my 270(s), my 308, and the occasional 25-06 for deer hunting. I have a "new" 6.5 Swede that I want to get started with and I am working on turning my AR-15 into a deer slayer. Nothing wrong with wanting new guns. Hell I buy them all the time. I need a new gun like my wife needs new shoes.
30-06 is the best all around deer rifle in the woods today. The M70 is a fine weapon in any caliber so take it to a gunsmith and get it right. I have one in 25-06. Don't sell that gun! Unless you want to sell it to me.
With that said there are umpteen different calibers that will do everything you want. I like the fact that every LGS and Walmart pretty much carries 30-06, 243, 270, 30-30 and such but for a deer hunting rifle that is not usually a major issue since a box has 20 cartridges and you might use 4-5 per year actually shooting at deer. I have never used more than two boxes of any one shell in a year and that was when sighting in a new scope and hunting all year.
I like my 243, my 30-30(s), my 270(s), my 308, and the occasional 25-06 for deer hunting. I have a "new" 6.5 Swede that I want to get started with and I am working on turning my AR-15 into a deer slayer. Nothing wrong with wanting new guns. Hell I buy them all the time. I need a new gun like my wife needs new shoes.
mdauben
Member
If you honestly need a gun that can take game out to 500 yards, I would definetly look at one of the magnums. The 7mm magnum might be my first choice, but the .300 magnum, one of the .270 or .300 short magnums, or the .270 or .300 Weatherby would work, too.
I don't know what your realistic marksmanship skills may be, but a 500 yard shot is not a trivial effort no matter what the cartridge. It requires not only a steady hand, but knowledge of your chosen cartridge and bullets ballistics and the ability to dope the wind.
If what you really want is just something a bit flatter shooting than your .30-06, the classic choice is the .270 Winchester. Some other possibilities are the .25-06 Reminton or the .280Remington.
FITASC666
Member
50 to 500 yds
JrBAKER90
If you are looking for a caliber capable between 50 and 500yds , I suggest you investigate the velocity of your round at those extremes and how the bullet will upset accordingly. To reach out to 500yds and be lethal we assume a high velocity round, perhaps much faster than what a 30-06 can offer.
In very general terms, deep penetrating bullets at these higher velocities will have no trouble expanding at 50 yds but may barely open up below 2100 fps further away and, conversely, the fast expanding light skin game bullets will still offer a good upset at 1800 fps way out there but explode on contact at 50yds.
As an example a 180gr Swift A-Frame leaving the muzzle of a 300 WM at 2960 fps will only be traveling around 2100 fps at 350 yds and close to 2000 at 400. At that range it works like a solid and may be a viable option only on a perfect broadside shot.
Not an easy choice to please all that diversity…
JrBAKER90
If you are looking for a caliber capable between 50 and 500yds , I suggest you investigate the velocity of your round at those extremes and how the bullet will upset accordingly. To reach out to 500yds and be lethal we assume a high velocity round, perhaps much faster than what a 30-06 can offer.
In very general terms, deep penetrating bullets at these higher velocities will have no trouble expanding at 50 yds but may barely open up below 2100 fps further away and, conversely, the fast expanding light skin game bullets will still offer a good upset at 1800 fps way out there but explode on contact at 50yds.
As an example a 180gr Swift A-Frame leaving the muzzle of a 300 WM at 2960 fps will only be traveling around 2100 fps at 350 yds and close to 2000 at 400. At that range it works like a solid and may be a viable option only on a perfect broadside shot.
Not an easy choice to please all that diversity…
mes227
Member
The .270 Win isn't flatter than the .30-06. With both shooting 150 gr bullets, at 500 yrds the .270 drops 60" while the .30-06 drops 47". The advantage of the .270 is you can load lighter bullets. However, loaded with 130 gr bullets, the .270 still drops 48". The .25-06 is flatter, but only because it's launching much lighter bullets. At 115 gr it's drop at 500 yrds is 45". At 85 gr, the drop is reduced to 38". The 7mm Rem Mag can deliver flatter trajectory, but you need lighter bullets. With 140 gr bullets it's drop at 500 yrds is 32". Hand-loaded 120 gr bullets in a 7mm Mag would get both flatter trajectory and reasonable energy delivery.
Vern Humphrey
Member
John Nosler solved that problem more than 60 years ago. Nosler Partition Jackets open fast at low velocities and penetrate well at high velocities.
Pistol Ranch
Member
You might be happy with a Weatherby Vanguard. The new S2 model has a world class trigger. The .300 Weatherby magnum will kill just about anything short of Elephants. The .257 Weatherby magnum has less recoil and shoots flatter than a .270.
Cabelas has em on sale pretty cheap.
Cabelas has em on sale pretty cheap.
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