30-30 case life test.

[Bazoo]

I posted this on another forum but thought it would have interest here.

I posed the question of "How many loadings to expect on full length sized 30-30 brass?" sometime back. The responses I received were anywhere from "not many" to the usual suggestion of "why full length size when neck sizing is better for brass life".

So I decided to do a little test. I took a once fired winchester case and loaded it until failure, keeping a record of each loading. I marked it's head with 4 file marks so I could easily distinguish it. I loaded it anytime I loaded a batch of 30-30, and sometimes loaded it singularly as well.

The case was full length sized after each firing, and then measured. From the first trimming until the case grew past the maximum length it wasn't trimmed. Then, it was trimmed to minimum length after each firing. Sometimes the trim length was short due to my inconsistent use of the trimmer or using the test casing to set the trimmer. I inside chamfered and outside deburred every time the case was trimmed. A roll crimp was used every loading. I did not anneal the case during this test.

The gun is my Winchester 94 30-30 made in 1970.

Tools used, Lyman FL sizing die set (a few times I used a CH FL sizing die but did not record which times), Lyman M die, lyman universal case trimmer. I used both a Lyman Spartan and a Lee hand press. For lube it was imperial sizing wax or Hornady one shot with no recorded distinction. RCBS calipers.

Cast bullets were all from air cooled, clip on wheel weights, sized .309 with Hornady gas checks. Lube was BAC on the Lyman 31141, LLA on the Lee 309-150-FN.

Times fired, powder & charge, bullet, length after sizing, trim to length.

1. Factory fired, trimmed to 2.029
2. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.029
3. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.032
4. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.032
5. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.035
6. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.036
7. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.0365
8. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.038
9. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.039
10. W748 29.0 gr, Lee 309-150-FN, 2.041, TTL 2.027
11. Misfired factory bullet & powder, 2.032, TTL 2.028
12. W748 34.0 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.027, no trim
13. W748 32.0 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.029, TTL 2.026
14. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.027, no trim
15. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.031, 2.029
16. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.032, 2.027
17. Unique 9.2 gr, Lee 309-150-fn no GC, 2.030, TTL no record
18. W748 32.5 gr, Lee 309-150-fn, 2.030, TTL 2.028
19. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.032, TTL 2.028
20. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.029, TTL 2.028
21. W748 32.5 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.029, TTL 2.027
22. IMR 3031 27.0 gr, Lyman 31141, 2.030, failure

That is a total of .040 trimmed off by my figuring, giving a value of .003 for number 17 which I forgot to record the trim length.

After load 22 was fired, I resized using a Lyman full length hand die. After sizing, inspection revealed a crack on the shoulder. I decided to size with the hand die as the base of the body just above the web was slightly bulged and beginning to chamber with a slight resistance. This was the only time using the hand die, and I wonder if it caused the crack prematurely. Probably not.

After each firing I carefully inspected the case for cracks and defects. I paper clip tested many times, and every time when I started getting up in firings. The primer pocket remains tight.

I started this test with the intent to record the number of times fired between trim to length and max length. It then turned into a longevity test. Obviously this isn't conclusive as it dealt with only one case of one manufacture. Not to mention the variables I introduced with varying trim lengths, size dies (mostly Lyman), presses used, and case lube used. It has been fun for me, and I've learned that full length sizing is not the 5-8 load brass killer I've heard, at least in my chamber with my dies, and my loading techniques.


That brings me to another facet of the test, how much can I trim off before I need to worry about the brass thinning and incipient case head separation. Of course that would depend on the thickness of the brass, which will vary from lot to lot and manufacturer. The lyman manual in a round about way suggests that .060 is the safe cut off spot.

I eventually plan to do a test of 3 cases, and record the group size for them to see how that changes over the course of their lifespan.

Thanks for reading.

Bazoo

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Great info! Thanks for the effort in doing that.

Was doing some 30-30 today for a 10in Contender and pondering some of those things.

 

[badkarmamib]

I have been wondering how long mine will last, since my original brass was only lasting for 2 or 3 loadings. I got to learn the difference between bumping the shoulder and full-length, bottoming-out-and-then-some sizing. Bumped brass fits a 1986 Marlin 336 and a brand new Henry single-shot, so I have to assume the Lee die is 0.028" to short to set up according to the directions. Since learning that lesson, I have not had a single failure, though I have WAY fewer than 22 loadings on them at this point (7-8).

 

[Bfh_auto]

All my cases split before they get a case head separation.
I'm glad you found a similar result.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I load mine with red dot. Been awhile i think 9 grains over a 150 grain cast boolet, Never counted times loaded. But still have no case failures yet.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I load mine with red dot. Been awhile i think 9 grains over a 150 grain cast boolet, Never counted times loaded. But still have no case failures yet.

Mine are 9gr of titewad or 15 of blue Dot.
There roughly 1000 and 1600 fps respectively.

 

[FROGO207]

You will probably get a primer pocket failure when using jacketed bullets and near max charges. What you were shooting was a fairly soft load OP.

 

[Bazoo]

The 29 grains w748 is a softish load but 32.5 ain’t. It duplicated factory recoil, and POI with my 31141, which I forgot to mention, weighs 180 grains dressed.

 

[Bazoo]

I have several batches of 30-30 brass, several of which are on 7 or 8 loadings with full power but cast loads. I keep a record on each batch of brass as to its loading. Which should be beneficial and a better test, when I get the batches up higher in reloads.

 

[PonyKiller]

I run mine with 150gr sierra fp over a mildish 33gr of norma 201 and have a bunch going into reload#8 full length resize and trimmed as required have lost a few of them by stepping on them flat, but still none to cracks or separation

 

[HowieG]

I have never pondered any of this stuff. I just load brass until I don't like how it looks, and then I throw it away. As far as trimming, I, like many others, trim a little bit each time because a batch shoots more consistently when it is all the same length.

 

[Bazoo]

I forgot to mention in my original post, that my sizing die moves my shoulder back .038 best I recall. I think in the thread about my test on the cb.gl forum I discussed it. I was quite surprised when I measured the setback.

 

[jmorris]

I forgot to mention in my original post, that my sizing die moves my shoulder back .038 best I recall.

I am astonished you could get that many uses from a case you were pushing the shoulder back almost forty thousandths!

 

[MrMagumba]

I am astonished you could get that many uses from a case you were pushing the shoulder back almost forty thousandths!

That caught my eye as well. I pulled out a fired 30-30 case just now to measure and my die pushes the shoulder back .005 - .008 depending on what datum I use. Even that seems like quite a bit.

 

[greyling22]

Hmmm, I may need to check a fired case and play with my sizing die. My cases do not last near that long, and I'm using a light cast lead load.

 

[Bcwitt]

I've never done it, but supposedly you can form much more durable 30-30 cases from 375 Winchester.

 

[Bazoo]

When I had the CH dies I mentioned in the original post, I checked the shoulder setback between them and the lyman dies I still use. They were nearly identically. I passed the CH dies on already.

I have several batches of brass that have 6-8 firings on them. Winchester and federal. All loaded with the same dies and shoulder setback. I'm going to anneal them before I load again I think. I haven't lost any due to cracks. I did lose a couple hunting, but I replaced them with new cases so my batch was still 50.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The Lee dies are capable of pushing back the shoulders as far as they do for a reason.
There is that much variation in chamber dimensions.
The .30/30 has been around and made by many builders for more than 100yrs.
Be proud you got that many uses.
I would have annealed the case after #10, and #20. It would stil be going strong!

Jack O’Connor once tried a similar experiment with the .222. He got similar results without annealing. He got over 100 firings before a case failure by annealing every 10 loadings.
Annealing isn’t hard once you’ve seen it done. Not nearly as technical either. I do mine on the gas stove top.
.22Hornet can easily be over done! I chuck them in a Lee case holder for the Lee trimmer and turn them with a electric screw driver.
I’ve got some Hornet brass that is 45yrs Old!

 

[DMW1116]

Clearly I need to shoot my 30-30 more. I traded for about 200 once fired cases and I’m still working through them on the first reloading. At least I know they’re probably a lifetime supply.

 

[Bazoo]

I've got 4 batches of brass I use. 3 @50 pieces and 1@85 pieces.

My empty powder cans indicate I'm getting close to 800 rounds loaded in the last 6 years. But I went a couple years not shooting it much.