I got the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die Set in 30-30, and to my suprise there is no crimp after using the "Dead Length Bullet Seating Die". Then the manual says something vague about the crimp die not being included. Is it necessary? I tapped a bullet hard on my desk and measured it without finding any change. I'm planning to use these in my Marlin 336. Should I wait and order the die?
30-30: Do I need a Crimp Die?
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Sport45
Member
Usually neck tension is enough. Crimping is justified more for autoloaders (cartridge slams to a stop in the chamber, similar to a kinetic puller) or high-recoil handguns (cartridge jerked backwards quickly with the same result). I wouldn't crimp a 30-30 unless the bullets showed they weren't staying in place.
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EddieCoyle
Member
Do your bullets have a cannelure? If not, don't even think about crimping them.
Zeke/PA
Member
No need to crimp bullets in .30-30 reloads.
Pay attention to the seating depth however.
Too long and a loaded round may not eject.
Zeke
Pay attention to the seating depth however.
Too long and a loaded round may not eject.
Zeke
The Bushmaster
Member
What?!!? Do any of you have a .30-30 Winchester or Marlin with tubular magazines? Man, this is worrysome...
Dubious. If you are loading them in a tubular magazine and I believe that a M-336 has a tubular magazine, it is manditory to crimp the case. Are you sure your seating die doesn't have a crimping capibility? Never heard of a Lee .30-30 seating die not to have the ability to crimp. If I am wrong. Yes, you need to buy ($8.00) a Lee Factory Crimping Die (FCD)...If the bullets you have do not have a cannelure or are not flat nosed (FNSP). Don't load them in a tubular magazine...
[Not crimping a .30-30 case mouth?...Never heard of such a thing...]
Dubious. If you are loading them in a tubular magazine and I believe that a M-336 has a tubular magazine, it is manditory to crimp the case. Are you sure your seating die doesn't have a crimping capibility? Never heard of a Lee .30-30 seating die not to have the ability to crimp. If I am wrong. Yes, you need to buy ($8.00) a Lee Factory Crimping Die (FCD)...If the bullets you have do not have a cannelure or are not flat nosed (FNSP). Don't load them in a tubular magazine...
[Not crimping a .30-30 case mouth?...Never heard of such a thing...]
dubious- you need to crimp because the spring in your tubular magazine will push bullets into the case.
i'm not familiar w/ the die you are using, but can't imagine it does not have a crimp shoulder. screw the die into the press deeper - you should be able to crimp. if not, you will need to buy a crimping die.
i don't crimp for my ar-15, but i sure do for my marlin 336.
i'm not familiar w/ the die you are using, but can't imagine it does not have a crimp shoulder. screw the die into the press deeper - you should be able to crimp. if not, you will need to buy a crimping die.
i don't crimp for my ar-15, but i sure do for my marlin 336.
SASS#23149
Member
I would not shoot my Marlins or Winchester lever guns without crimping the rounds used in them.Since that round is primarily a lever action round I"m VERY surprised that a crimp die was not included.
I shoot cast bullets so called rcbs and got a roll crimp die made for cast slugs which have a crimpiing groove cast in. For jaceted ammo I'd want a die made for them specifically.
And be sure,as stated above,to use only flat pointed bullets in that gun.You do NOT want a mag tube chain fire situation.
I shoot cast bullets so called rcbs and got a roll crimp die made for cast slugs which have a crimpiing groove cast in. For jaceted ammo I'd want a die made for them specifically.
And be sure,as stated above,to use only flat pointed bullets in that gun.You do NOT want a mag tube chain fire situation.
Couple variable I looked at when I loaded my 336 30/30 actively. (until it was stolen 
)
For hunting ammo, I would always use a bullet that had a cannelure, and always crimped to some degree depending on the load. WW 748 type ball propellants that had a lower load density than stick propellants got a higher level of crimp. Compressed IMR stick propellant loads got much less, as the charge prevented any possible setback and it seemed the crimp did more to keep it seated, than prevent setback.
My 20 plus year old RCBS dies seem to have a pretty big expander, and neck tension always seemed weak. When I started loading 30/30 and all other calibers, Lee FCD's were not around so for me it was roll crimp or nothing. Roll crimping was also done in either one or two steps depending on amount. If light I could seat and crimp at one time, but if heavy, it was seat all rounds, them back of the seater stem and crimp. It's real easy to collapse the shoulder if not careful.
Using cast bullet loads, I would crimp lightly, or not at all because I fed them usually one or two at a time, and the .310-.311" bullet diameter added a lot of neck tension. Just a side note, but I had great luck using properly sized cast bullets in my micro grooved 336, contrary to what others have reported.
)For hunting ammo, I would always use a bullet that had a cannelure, and always crimped to some degree depending on the load. WW 748 type ball propellants that had a lower load density than stick propellants got a higher level of crimp. Compressed IMR stick propellant loads got much less, as the charge prevented any possible setback and it seemed the crimp did more to keep it seated, than prevent setback.
My 20 plus year old RCBS dies seem to have a pretty big expander, and neck tension always seemed weak. When I started loading 30/30 and all other calibers, Lee FCD's were not around so for me it was roll crimp or nothing. Roll crimping was also done in either one or two steps depending on amount. If light I could seat and crimp at one time, but if heavy, it was seat all rounds, them back of the seater stem and crimp. It's real easy to collapse the shoulder if not careful.
Using cast bullet loads, I would crimp lightly, or not at all because I fed them usually one or two at a time, and the .310-.311" bullet diameter added a lot of neck tension. Just a side note, but I had great luck using properly sized cast bullets in my micro grooved 336, contrary to what others have reported.
I don't think the Lee deluxe die set is best for a .30-30 lever action rifle.
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Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 30-30 Winchester
This set includes a collet neck sizing die, full length sizing die and bullet seating die. The collet neck sizing die will allow you to produce ammunition that is fire-formed to the chamber of one rifle.
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It does not appears that there is a die that will crimp in this die set. I crimp for a model 94 .30-30 but no crimp for the Contender. - Phil
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Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 30-30 Winchester
This set includes a collet neck sizing die, full length sizing die and bullet seating die. The collet neck sizing die will allow you to produce ammunition that is fire-formed to the chamber of one rifle.
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It does not appears that there is a die that will crimp in this die set. I crimp for a model 94 .30-30 but no crimp for the Contender. - Phil
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
They should to be crimped for use in a tubular magazine.
Otherwise, recoil with a full magazine my drive some of the bullets deeper in the case.
That can cause excess pressure.
I am about 99.999% sure your Lee seating die has crimping ability.
Run an empty case up all the way in the press, then screw the die body down until it contacts the mouth of the case.
Now, load a round and adjust the seating depth until the case mouth is even with the bottom of the cannelure.
Now turn the whole die assembly in another 1/4 - 1/2 turn and you should have a seated & crimped round.
Be aware that if you use this seating die to crimp, all the cases have to be trimmed to exactly the same length.
If you buy the Lee FCD die, case length is not critical.
rcmodel
Otherwise, recoil with a full magazine my drive some of the bullets deeper in the case.
That can cause excess pressure.
I am about 99.999% sure your Lee seating die has crimping ability.
Run an empty case up all the way in the press, then screw the die body down until it contacts the mouth of the case.
Now, load a round and adjust the seating depth until the case mouth is even with the bottom of the cannelure.
Now turn the whole die assembly in another 1/4 - 1/2 turn and you should have a seated & crimped round.
Be aware that if you use this seating die to crimp, all the cases have to be trimmed to exactly the same length.
If you buy the Lee FCD die, case length is not critical.
rcmodel
Sport45
Member
Crimping 30-30 is not bad advice and I wouldn't tell anyone to never crimp them, but I don't think it is always necessary.
I never owned a lever action 30-30 so maybe I'm full of it. I did have a Winchester '94 in .375win and those rounds did not need a crimp. When I test for neck tension by pushing the bullet against the edge of my workbench I press much harder that it takes to overcome the spring tension loading the magazine. I never had one set back in the magazine, and yes I did check. Crimping would have only shortened brass life and .375win wasn't cheap.
I'll stand by my statement that you only need to crimp if the bullet isn't staying in place. Push the loaded round against the edge of your reloading bench with about twice the force it takes to load the last round in the magazine and see what happens. Other comments about not using pointed bullets definately apply.
I never owned a lever action 30-30 so maybe I'm full of it. I did have a Winchester '94 in .375win and those rounds did not need a crimp. When I test for neck tension by pushing the bullet against the edge of my workbench I press much harder that it takes to overcome the spring tension loading the magazine. I never had one set back in the magazine, and yes I did check. Crimping would have only shortened brass life and .375win wasn't cheap.
I'll stand by my statement that you only need to crimp if the bullet isn't staying in place. Push the loaded round against the edge of your reloading bench with about twice the force it takes to load the last round in the magazine and see what happens. Other comments about not using pointed bullets definately apply.
scrat
Member
please listen to bushmaster and only bushmaster
obviously none of these people have a 30-30. I have a model 94 winchester. You do need to crimp the bullets. Same time make sure when you size them that they are sized good. REally good. If not you will encounter a bullet that goes in easy when you press it in. Well i tell you put that round in your hand and try to push the bullet in with your thumb. Chances are it will go all the way in. now just imagin putting 5 rounds in your bottom tube magazine. you chamber the first one up and fire it. No problem. Then you go to change another one and realize the bullet is not there just the case. So you pull it out. Look at it and the bullet is inside the case deep inside.
Bottom line the 30-30 needs a good crimp. On a good case with a good neck size. The bullet has to go in with pressure. If it goes in losse dont shoot it. Then make sure it has a medium to heavy crimp.
The 30-30 is a thin walled case. The case requires a good neck size and a crimp otherwise you will have loose bullets. just pop in 30-30 and look at all the threads where people complain about bullets going in with thumb pressure. Anyone that says it does not need to be crimped has not owned a 30-30 and done reloads. Look at their responses. Ask the people who say they dont need one. How many 30-30 rounds have they loaded and shot. In a 336 marlin and a win 94 you need it.
obviously none of these people have a 30-30. I have a model 94 winchester. You do need to crimp the bullets. Same time make sure when you size them that they are sized good. REally good. If not you will encounter a bullet that goes in easy when you press it in. Well i tell you put that round in your hand and try to push the bullet in with your thumb. Chances are it will go all the way in. now just imagin putting 5 rounds in your bottom tube magazine. you chamber the first one up and fire it. No problem. Then you go to change another one and realize the bullet is not there just the case. So you pull it out. Look at it and the bullet is inside the case deep inside.
Bottom line the 30-30 needs a good crimp. On a good case with a good neck size. The bullet has to go in with pressure. If it goes in losse dont shoot it. Then make sure it has a medium to heavy crimp.
The 30-30 is a thin walled case. The case requires a good neck size and a crimp otherwise you will have loose bullets. just pop in 30-30 and look at all the threads where people complain about bullets going in with thumb pressure. Anyone that says it does not need to be crimped has not owned a 30-30 and done reloads. Look at their responses. Ask the people who say they dont need one. How many 30-30 rounds have they loaded and shot. In a 336 marlin and a win 94 you need it.
ftierson
Member.
Crimp them...
And the Lee Factory Crimp Die is the way to do it...
And the Lee FCD is cheap to buy, too, even if you didn't get it in the deluxe set (it comes standard in the Pacesetter set).
Forrest
And the Lee Factory Crimp Die is the way to do it...
And the Lee FCD is cheap to buy, too, even if you didn't get it in the deluxe set (it comes standard in the Pacesetter set).
Forrest
Grandpa Shooter
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I bought a Lee Deluxe Rifle Die set less than a month ago from Midway and it DEFINITLEY CAME WITH THE LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE. Sorry about the shouting but it is important to make sure you are crimping the mouth of the case securely into the cannelure. This is straight from the Midway on-line catalog.
Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 30-30 Winchester
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Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 30-30 Winchester
Technical Specifications & Use
Average Customer Rating:
Read the Review(s)
Used this Product? Rate It
Package Size
Application Charts & Information
Product #: 342319
Manufacturer #: 90631
Our Price: $24.99
Status: Out of Stock, Backorder OK
Date Expected In-Stock: 12/31/2007
Quantity
Pretty strange. It's definitely a bullet seating die, but not a crimping die. I have a crimping / seating die for my .44 mag die set, and I know how that works. Pretty suprising, but it says the crimping die is NOT included. Maybe their 3 die deluxe set? I'm going to call up Lee and see whats going on...
I shot some at the range today but single loaded them directly into the chamber without using the tube magazine. They were fine... I'm ordering the crimper ASAP. They were plenty accurate too!
I shot some at the range today but single loaded them directly into the chamber without using the tube magazine. They were fine... I'm ordering the crimper ASAP. They were plenty accurate too!
qajaq59
Member
Take another look at the instructions that came with the die or give the die manufacturer a call. Generally the bullet seating die is reset lower in the press and that gives you the crimp. But if not, then buy a separate crimping die. You really do need a crimp for the Marlin 30-30. Especially with the heavier hunting loads.
There was another thread on this recently. I was having problems getting a good crimp with my Lee RGB 30-30 dies without buckling them too. Maybe it's something with the Lee dies since they also sell the FCD and expect or want you to buy one. I dunno. I haven't tried any other brand of dies for 30-30 but I never had a problem getting a crimp with any of my RCBS dies.
Another vote for a crimp!
The problem with tube magazines is the tube when full puts not only spring pressure on the bullets, but the wgt of the cartridges is also a factor. Recoil will allow the bullets to move while still under pressure and then slam into the next with the spring driving them under tension. This can pound the bullets deeper.
BTW; I don`t have a 30-30, but do load for a M94 32 Win spcl and crimp everything that goes in it.
The problem with tube magazines is the tube when full puts not only spring pressure on the bullets, but the wgt of the cartridges is also a factor. Recoil will allow the bullets to move while still under pressure and then slam into the next with the spring driving them under tension. This can pound the bullets deeper.
BTW; I don`t have a 30-30, but do load for a M94 32 Win spcl and crimp everything that goes in it.
I have always crimped for my .30-.30 using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It says you can use it for bullets without a cannelure also. I am pretty sure the bullet seating die if set correctly will put a good roll crimp over the cannelure, the FCD is just added insurance.
GarandOwner
Member
The deluxe rifle dies DO NOT come with a factory crimp die from Lee, I have one and it did not come with it, so I bought the crimp die. The pace setter dies do come with the factory crimp. (cheaper than the deluxe, and prob would have been better for you since you are reloading for a lever action) The deluxe dies come with the collet neck sizing die instead. This set was designed mostly for people who reload fireformed cases. You can get the crimp die for cheap. Also with the Lee crimp die, the bullet doest have to have a cannelure, it wont crush the bullet or the case using it on a bullet without a cannelure, I use it to have a tighter fit around my .30-06 bullets. When I used just the collet die and dead setting die, the bullets were tight, but if i pushed on them i could move them slightly (varied by .1" using a caliper)
I use the collet die and dead seat bullets for my 1903A3, but full size, dead seat and then use the factory crimp for my garand.
I use the collet die and dead seat bullets for my 1903A3, but full size, dead seat and then use the factory crimp for my garand.
Sunray
Member
"...the spring in your tubular magazine will push bullets into the case..." No it won't. Bullets get pushed into the cases by the physics of recoil.
Your seating die can be adjusted to put in a crimp. It doesn't have to be a heavy crimp. Just enough to keep the bullet in place.
Semi-autos don't absolutely require a crimp either.
Your seating die can be adjusted to put in a crimp. It doesn't have to be a heavy crimp. Just enough to keep the bullet in place.
Semi-autos don't absolutely require a crimp either.
stovepipe699
Member
I just bought the same die set in 22-250 and it does not have the FCD, and the dead length bullet seating die doesn't crimp. This so you can set the die to contact the shell holder thereby removing play from the press and giving more consistent seating depth(a normal seating die would crimp when set this way). This die set is for someone who wants to be able to neck size and does not want to crimp. Just buy the FCD and you're in business. It's not that expensive, which is why I buy Lee stuff. I've had good results with it in 30-06, although I now seat off the lands.
GarandOwner
Member
Lee's dead seating dye can not be adjusted to crimp
Beware of the advice on this tread!
:banghead:OMG I can't believe some of the advice being given on this thread. There is no way anyone can responsibly make a blanket statement that a shell doesn't need to be crimped based solely upon the type of action: automatic, lever, fallen block or bolt. You have to take bullet weight, neck tension, action type, chamber, and magazine into account when deciding whether a round should or should not be crimped.
dubious you asked about a 30-30 in Marlin 336 which is 30 cal in a lever action with a tubular feed -- definitively needs to be crimped and the bullet selection is important. Choose either a round nose or flat point and stay way from ballistic tips, spire points or full metal jackets.
:banghead:OMG I can't believe some of the advice being given on this thread. There is no way anyone can responsibly make a blanket statement that a shell doesn't need to be crimped based solely upon the type of action: automatic, lever, fallen block or bolt. You have to take bullet weight, neck tension, action type, chamber, and magazine into account when deciding whether a round should or should not be crimped.
dubious you asked about a 30-30 in Marlin 336 which is 30 cal in a lever action with a tubular feed -- definitively needs to be crimped and the bullet selection is important. Choose either a round nose or flat point and stay way from ballistic tips, spire points or full metal jackets.
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