.30-30 for elk?
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joshk-k
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That was not part of my thinking, per se.
Josh
Josh
Not sure about where you're hunting, but if you're going to be shooting at 100 yards or less, you might be able to hunt in much better conditions with a muzzleloader than if you go out with everyone else that's carrying a longer-range elk rifle.
Often, it's much safer, too. Not sure I'd want to get between an "eager" hunter with a .338 Win Mag and an elk.
(I've heard some stories that are downright scary from around these parts.)
Often, it's much safer, too. Not sure I'd want to get between an "eager" hunter with a .338 Win Mag and an elk.
(I've heard some stories that are downright scary from around these parts.)
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northerner
Member
I believe one of the cartridge manufacturers have a magnumtized load for the old 30/30 that brings it up to the .308 velocities and with a better bullet. Its called Levermag or something like that? I believe Federal or Speer makes it.
I remember reading that many older Elk hunters thought that the 99 Savage in .300 Savage was just about the perfect elk gun and cartridge.
I remember reading that many older Elk hunters thought that the 99 Savage in .300 Savage was just about the perfect elk gun and cartridge.
usmc1371
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The elk in NW oregon are a solid 20 to 30% larger than the rocky Mt elk that are in most of the country and the habitat is genrally very thick. The options for shots are eathier very close ie less than 100yds or clear acorss a clear cut wich could be up to 400+. The OP said he also has a scoped 30-06 wich in my opnion is a better elk rifle for the hunting he is planing. If I were going to elk hunt NW oregon again and all I had was a 30-30 I would avoid clear cuts and stick to the thick stuff to avoid the temptation or fustration of seeing an elk way to far to shoot with my 30-30.
Yes the 30-30 will work just don't stop shooting till the elk hits the ground, better to shoot an elk twice than have to track it through on of the thickest rain forests on the planet.
Yes the 30-30 will work just don't stop shooting till the elk hits the ground, better to shoot an elk twice than have to track it through on of the thickest rain forests on the planet.
Todd1700
Member
Well an awful lot of people have shot them from that distance with a bow. And more continue to do it every year. If a man with a bow in his hand can manage to get a broadside shot at 50 yards or less then I'm having trouble understanding why a man with a 30-30 would have such an impossible chance of getting a good shot at one. The 30-30 may not be a long range powerhouse but with a 170 grain bullet it should easily punch into a elks vitals out to 150 yards. That's hell and gone farther than the practical range of a bow and about the same practical range of most muzzleloaders. And yet I never hear anyone tell people not to hunt elk with a bow or a muzzleloader. Ever thought about that?
Harve Curry
Member
I only know about New Mexico and Arizona elk hunting, so conditions in other states may differ. It is hard to get with in bow range except during the rut when their gaurd is down. There's not much rut or any during the firearm seasons. Stalking in your socks or shooting from a bilnd. Then there's the wind to mess you up.
Vern Humphrey
Member
LeveRevolution -- it's a polymer tipped bullet with a soft tip. It allows a pointed bullet to be used in tubular magazines, and givesthe .30-30 a bit longer practical range -- but it hardly matches the .308.
The accuracy of the LE ammo I've seen is pretty impressive. That old lever gun that you thought couldn't beat 2 MOA might just be able to hang with a bolt-action sporter with the new stuff. I've seen it happen.
It also helps trajectory and pushes effective range by a good distance since the spitzer bullet retains its velocity well.
But... While the LE ammo has revitalized the venerable cartridge, a .30-30 LE round is still a .30-30.
.30-30 max pressure is 42,000 PSI, whereas the .308 max is 62,000 psi. It would be very difficult to push a .30-30 to .308 velocities, both because of the smaller case volume and the pressure limit of the .30-30.
Remember that the .308 can't really equal .30-06 velocity, either, despite the fact that you'll read that they're the same. A maxed-out 150 grain .30-06 is good for about 200 fps over a .308, roughly the difference between .30-06 and .300 WinMag (yet a bigger case).
Powder technology notwithstanding, a case is only as big as it is.
It also helps trajectory and pushes effective range by a good distance since the spitzer bullet retains its velocity well.
But... While the LE ammo has revitalized the venerable cartridge, a .30-30 LE round is still a .30-30.
.30-30 max pressure is 42,000 PSI, whereas the .308 max is 62,000 psi. It would be very difficult to push a .30-30 to .308 velocities, both because of the smaller case volume and the pressure limit of the .30-30.
Remember that the .308 can't really equal .30-06 velocity, either, despite the fact that you'll read that they're the same. A maxed-out 150 grain .30-06 is good for about 200 fps over a .308, roughly the difference between .30-06 and .300 WinMag (yet a bigger case).
Powder technology notwithstanding, a case is only as big as it is.
I totally agree with ArmedBear on this..
While the Hornady LE has given new life to the old 30 WCF, it is not 308 Winchester by any stretch of imagination...
Souped-up 30-30 reloads tops at 2200 ft/lb give or take...even the weakest .308 loads are easily 300 ft/lb above that...and the 308 Win is not 30-06 either despite what people can fool themselves to believe
That said, within 100-150 yards the thutty thutty is very deadly on almost anything...
Some people very confident with their lever guns have taken deer cleanly at 300+ yards with the appropriate loads...and if you have the skill...
Arkansas Paul
Member
Let's remember a good elk cartridge is not one that will get the job done when conditions are ideal. A good elk cartridge is one that will get the job done when conditions are less than ideal. If you take a quartering shot with a .30-30 at anything but close range, you're going to have a heck of a tracking job on your hands and you may never recover the animal. I don't know about you, but I would hate to know I had wounded an animal when the problem could have been solved with a more powerful round.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Amen!
And let me repeat what I said earlier -- a man who hunts every year and has killed plenty of elk may pass up the less than ideal shots.
A man who has never hunted elk may be tempted, however, to attempt the impossible on the only wild elk he's ever seen.
When we are talking Elk, a 30-30 should be strictly used at 100-150 yards...not more than that.
At 100 yards or below, with the right load and bullet, a quartering shot should not be a particularly problematic....
That said, a 30-30 is not an ideal Elk cartridge of course....still it can do the job decently even in less than super ideal conditions (broadside shot at 50 yards so to speak)
That should always be the case, regardless of your gun.....
An incredibly experienced and skilled hunter told me that you should leave alone your prey if it is past the 400 yards mark, no matter what rifle and caliber you are hunting with....
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have often said that John Kerry wakes up in the wee hours of the morning with a little voice whispering, "If you had served a full tour in Viet Nam, and come home to help your fellow veterans, instead of lying about them, you'd be President today."
I've killed elk, but I don't want to wake up in the wee morning hours to hear a little voice whispering to me, "If you'd taken your .30-06 or your .35 Brown-Whelen, you could have taken that shot and the freezer would be full of elk meat right now."
I've killed elk, but I don't want to wake up in the wee morning hours to hear a little voice whispering to me, "If you'd taken your .30-06 or your .35 Brown-Whelen, you could have taken that shot and the freezer would be full of elk meat right now."
Vern
Let's not forget that one huge advantage of the 30-30 lever that, at least in part, can compensate for the lack of thump is the lightning fast follow up shot if you know how to use your carbine....I saw people rivaling semi-auto rifles for well aimed shots...
Let's not forget that one huge advantage of the 30-30 lever that, at least in part, can compensate for the lack of thump is the lightning fast follow up shot if you know how to use your carbine....I saw people rivaling semi-auto rifles for well aimed shots...
Vern Humphrey
Member
Perfectly true -- but I've been in situations where a follow-up shot wasn't possible.
In one case, a bull elk came down through the timber, with no chance of a clear shot. I tracked him with my scope, and when he reached a logging road, he jumped down into the middle of the road and in the next jump was gone.
I hit him as his feet touched the ground, and before I got the rifle back down from recoil, he had disappeared. No rifle -- not even a semi-automatic -- would have given me a second shot.
With a .30-30, I would not have attempted the shot.
In one case, a bull elk came down through the timber, with no chance of a clear shot. I tracked him with my scope, and when he reached a logging road, he jumped down into the middle of the road and in the next jump was gone.
I hit him as his feet touched the ground, and before I got the rifle back down from recoil, he had disappeared. No rifle -- not even a semi-automatic -- would have given me a second shot.
With a .30-30, I would not have attempted the shot.
We agree on this...
A 338 Win Mag obviously will give you a much more wide range of opportunity on elk compared to a 30-30 for sure....
Still the thutty thutty, in some conditions can be a good performer on elk (the main limiting factor is the range)....where there are other lesser cartridges that should never be used for this purpose under any circumstances (a 223, 22 LR, 357 carbine, etc...)
If you can afford another rifle, why not, more power to you...but if you cannot and you have only a 30 WCF, you can try to make the best use of it and be aware of its limitations...but it's doable if the conditions are right...
A 338 Win Mag obviously will give you a much more wide range of opportunity on elk compared to a 30-30 for sure....
Still the thutty thutty, in some conditions can be a good performer on elk (the main limiting factor is the range)....where there are other lesser cartridges that should never be used for this purpose under any circumstances (a 223, 22 LR, 357 carbine, etc...)
If you can afford another rifle, why not, more power to you...but if you cannot and you have only a 30 WCF, you can try to make the best use of it and be aware of its limitations...but it's doable if the conditions are right...
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My daughter shot this nice big cow last October. She was 12 years old at the time and just a wisp under 100 lbs. I built her a number 5 tapper barreled .308 on a stainless M-70 it has a 13 LOP stock and heavy 24" barrel. The child can not shoot it unless she has the front end supported in this case she used a Harris bi-pod from a prone position.
I load her down with a SPR 22 a volume replacement powder and use a 150 gr flat nosed Sierra Game King @ a nominal 2300 FPS(.30-30 ballistics). In that rig the recoil is about like a 223. IE There is none and this kid can shoot the piss out of this rifle. Here is the secret to her success at killing an elk with a .30-30 powered gun. She aims before she shoots and we passed up multiple chances at elk one of which was at 170 yards. She was MAD at dad for not letting her shoot because she knows she can place a group inside of 3 inches at 200 yards with this rifle and I do too. But we agreed to 100 yards or under before we took a shot.
She hammered this one at about 80 yards hitting it in a front quartering shot just behind the shoulder bone and the bullet got both lungs went through the diaphragm through the liver and stopped under the skin on the off side. We tracked this cow for about an hour before we found her. The bullet did an admirable job but she was just a bit far back on her shot placement. Elk can go a long way even with holes in their lungs. A bit more velocity and expansion might have done the job a bit quicker. But a .30-30 will definitely kill elk if they are hit right and the range is kept reasonable.
PS she's also killed a nice big boar hog with this same round.
I load her down with a SPR 22 a volume replacement powder and use a 150 gr flat nosed Sierra Game King @ a nominal 2300 FPS(.30-30 ballistics). In that rig the recoil is about like a 223. IE There is none and this kid can shoot the piss out of this rifle. Here is the secret to her success at killing an elk with a .30-30 powered gun. She aims before she shoots and we passed up multiple chances at elk one of which was at 170 yards. She was MAD at dad for not letting her shoot because she knows she can place a group inside of 3 inches at 200 yards with this rifle and I do too. But we agreed to 100 yards or under before we took a shot.
She hammered this one at about 80 yards hitting it in a front quartering shot just behind the shoulder bone and the bullet got both lungs went through the diaphragm through the liver and stopped under the skin on the off side. We tracked this cow for about an hour before we found her. The bullet did an admirable job but she was just a bit far back on her shot placement. Elk can go a long way even with holes in their lungs. A bit more velocity and expansion might have done the job a bit quicker. But a .30-30 will definitely kill elk if they are hit right and the range is kept reasonable.
PS she's also killed a nice big boar hog with this same round.
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Saturno,
Way doable. That little 150 gr pill gave us three feet of penetration. I have no doubt that had that elk been flat broadside it would have exited. The secret is setting up the shot. You've got to be close and you've got to pick your shots. You've also got to have the discipline to wait for the right shot.
Hunting elk with a .30-30 is like hunting African DG with a double rifle. You will have to pass up some shots that you could have taken with another rig but if you are OK with that it is a fun experience. Maybe a better example is using fly gear over a spin bait. It is a self imposed limitation but if that is your game go for it and enjoy it.
Way doable. That little 150 gr pill gave us three feet of penetration. I have no doubt that had that elk been flat broadside it would have exited. The secret is setting up the shot. You've got to be close and you've got to pick your shots. You've also got to have the discipline to wait for the right shot.
Hunting elk with a .30-30 is like hunting African DG with a double rifle. You will have to pass up some shots that you could have taken with another rig but if you are OK with that it is a fun experience. Maybe a better example is using fly gear over a spin bait. It is a self imposed limitation but if that is your game go for it and enjoy it.
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LeveRevuloution is not a jumped up load it is simply using an aerodynamic bullet giving a BC advantage over the old round nosed or flat nosed bullets. AND it is dead soft frangible. I wouldn't use it on elk. It is way to fragile to be considered an elk round.
H&H
I think that compared to your standard run of the mill commercial load (Winchester, Remington, etc...), the 30-30 LE Hornady is a little bit more peppy...they publish 2400 fps for a 160 gr. pill...not that much of a difference but just a tad hotter..
But what it's impressive is its long range capability compared to the standard 30 WCF loads....at 300 yards has well over 1000 ft/lb left and very little drop compared to the standard 30 WCF...you can get a whitetail fair and square even without particular ability....once the polymer tip is off basically it is a giant hollow point bullet...I agree that it's not elk medicine but I heard it does quite some numbers on deer...
How big was the elk your daughter got??
I bet that the same shot with the 170 gr. 30-30 partition load from Federal would have exited...
Grizzly Cartridges makes a 170 gr. flat nose 30-30 at over 2000 ft/lb...a bit pricey but a very good thumper..
Buffalo Bore promises that it's 190 gr. heavy 30-30 loads will reach ~2300 ft/lb....
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Calender dates for bow VS rifle season amount to one word, stalking.
Good stalking skills will get you easily within 30-30 range of an elk. Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but I've seen how many hunters "hunt" elk, and often go home empty. I've hunted with guys that can become invisible in a forest within 2 minutes upon entering the woods. Sadly, stalking skills are not given the honor due. But then, guys that possess them, never go hungry, nor need to brag about their thunderboomer...
Good stalking skills will get you easily within 30-30 range of an elk. Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but I've seen how many hunters "hunt" elk, and often go home empty. I've hunted with guys that can become invisible in a forest within 2 minutes upon entering the woods. Sadly, stalking skills are not given the honor due. But then, guys that possess them, never go hungry, nor need to brag about their thunderboomer...
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