.30-30 for elk?

[running iron]

I have to chime in on this one and agree with everyone that said NO. It's irresponsible in my mind to use a 30-30 for elk when if your reason is you want to use a lever gun or any gun unless you were starving or couldn't get another bigger one. Then only if you acted like a bow hunter. Most of the shots around here are in the pinion/juniper forest. Most of the time you can't even see the whole elk through the cover. Then there is the wind, real wind at 7000'. My bother lives in Oregon and I for sure wouldn't take a 30-30. Why not a big bore lever-action, if that's what you like? The elk deserve a clean kill IMO.

 

[ccsniper]

I've hunted with guys that can become invisible in a forest within 2 minutes upon entering the woods

I know one of those kinds. to the OP, I would not hunt elk with a 30 30 unless I was 100% sure that I could get a good shot and within range. Thats just me though. I've also never hunted elk and should probably just keep my mouth shut

 

[blackops]

Honestly, the 30-30 is a good cartridge for 100 yds in, but the 270 and 30-06 are far better in my opinion.

 

[Todd1700]

Look at the bow season vs. the general rifle season on the calendar, and you might get some sort of an idea.

When can you hunt them with muzzleloaders? They have an effective range of about 150 yards. Some perhaps a bit more. Do you advise people not to hunt elk with a muzzleloader as well?

Most of the shots around here are in the pinion/juniper forest. Most of the time you can't even see the whole elk through the cover.

And this would exclude the use a 30-30 in what way? More powerful cartridges make it easier for you to see elk in thick cover?

 

[ArmedBear]

When can you hunt them with muzzleloaders?

That depends.

I can only speak specifically about Idaho, because I just applied for tags here so I have all the lit in front of me. Generally, I believe Utah is similar, though.

Here in Idaho, it depends on the region. The state covers a good amount of latitude, and elevation varies from 770 to 12,662 feet above sea level, with everything in between well-represented.

Some special muzzleloader and archery seasons are during the rut, when the elk can be called in. Some people are damn good at it. This guy is a competitive elk caller:

Others are very late, when snows typically drive elk down from the mountains.

There's a distinct difference between hunting elk in the background, and in the foreground, of this picture (Sawtooth Mountains here in Idaho).

They have an effective range of about 150 yards. Some perhaps a bit more. Do you advise people not to hunt elk with a muzzleloader as well?

There are special muzzleloader and archery seasons, like I said.

Typical general rifle seasons are about 3 weeks long, in between the rut and the snows, when the elk are often in the high mountains, and have nothing to do but eat and look out for hunters.

Furthermore, that's when greater numbers of hunters are running around, taking 300 yard shots. It's usually AFTER some other seasons (archery and/or muzzleloaders) have started. So the elk aren't exactly going to be caught off-guard very easily.

If this were 1909 instead of 2009, the seasons were long and hunters sparse, it probably wouldn't make any difference. But in 2009 in the real world, it does.

People hunt and take elk with muzzleloaders and bows every year. But during general rifle season on public land? Not so much.

If someone has access to a very large tract of private land that is not ordinarily hunted at all (a few people are so lucky, but not me), general rifle season might be viable with a short-range firearm. There are also public areas where only short-range firearms are allowed during regular season here.

In Idaho, a .30-30 is not legally a short-range firearm, so that would not be any help.

Hunting elk in the mountains is not like hunting deer in the low country.

Now there are some depredation permits available, where you might be able to take pot shots at elk when they come down to feed off crops. That's a possibility.

But for general seasons, an earnest look at the calendar and a topo map would be pretty daunting to someone who wants to shoot an elk at 75 yards -- at least anywhere around here.

 

[running iron]

For tod1700, my point was that if you can't see the whole animal chances are that you are not offered the the perfect shot MOST of the time. Also, "Roosevelt and Tule Elk are substantially smaller than the American Elk" (boon&crockett) in N. Az. and N.M.. So please don't try your 30-30 on the American. They are big and rugged. I've seen too many cripples left when the shooter went home.

 

[natman]

Thanks for all the answers, although the verdict still seems up in the air. For the record, I also have a scoped .30-06, that I think probably in general would be a better elk gun. I just haven't shot it very much (I only get to shoot maybe three or four times a year), and feel more comfortable with my .30-30. I was thinking about getting some aperture sights for it to help with better target acquisition in the woods.

Comparing the ballistics of a 30-30 to a 30-06, the 30-30 is down by a whooping 500 fps. That's a lot, more than the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Weatherby Magnum. A 168 grain 30-06 at 300 yards is going as fast as a 170 grain 30-30 at the muzzle.

Elk are big. You don't need a magnum, but you would be a lot better off with a good elk load in your 30-06.

For all those who want to compare with muzzleloaders and bows, he's going to have to hunt during rifle season if he uses a 30-30, so he might as well use the better rifle.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I can't believe I got tru 4 pages of"30-30 on elk" and Elmer Keith never was mentioned.

 

[PT1911]

I know it has been said... but I must repeat... if you can shoot and kill an elk routinely with an arrow or black powder gun, a 30-30 is more than adequate... sure there are some that may drop it faster or from farther away.. I swear it seems as though if one were to follow all the advice and comments on here deer would only be hunted with a 600 nitro express.

 

[saturno_v]

I think H&H put this thread to rest some while ago...I cannot believe is still going...

His daughter anchored an Elk with an angled shot, not perfect shot placement and with a little 150 gr. pill at ~80 yards.....result: complete penetration...and with a picture to prove it...

So within reasonable distance (the only real limiting factor on the 30-30) is doable with room to spare...

Know the limits of your gun....obviously with the 30 WCF you have to pass on a 300 yards shot or so on the other side of a canyon.....but within 100-150 yards or less and with the right load is fair game and perfectly ethical....

 

[ArmedBear]

if you can shoot and kill an elk routinely with an arrow or black powder gun

If you do that routinely during the general rifle season when and where you plan to hunt, sure.

Like I said, I am typing this with the Idaho DFG lit in front of me, just got down from the mountains where elk live a few minutes ago, and I actually applied for a controlled elk tag.

Hunting elk bears little resemblance to hunting deer in Alabama.

The issue is not just about whether a .30-30 will kill an elk (it will) but whether it's a good choice.

If the OP's only reason for using the .30-30 is because he's not really familiar with the .30-06 he already owns, I'd say this:

If get the elk tag you want, go and get familiar with the .30-06. Take the time to do it.

(If he's a very experienced elk hunter and wants the challenge more than the elk, sure, the .30-30 would present that challenge.)

 

[BK]

If you are unable to kill an elk with a .30-30, holding a 7mm instead makes no sense to me.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Except that it does. For example, a quartering away shot would be a no-no for a .30-30. But that might be the only shot you'd get, and if it's your first elk, it would be difficult to resist the temptation.

With a 7mm Rem Mag loaded with a heavy, premium bullet, simply aim for the leg on the far side. You have a rifle that will plow through the stomach, go through the boiler room, and still have enough steam to break the leg.

 

[joshk-k]

I am impressed that this has lasted for 87 replies so far. I think I am going to take this as an opportunity to get to know my .30-06 better and put in some serious practice with it before the fall. It seems, from both a practical and ethical sense, that while the .30-30 would be fine, the .30-06 would be better. That's enough for me. I appreciate all of the input.

Now if I could only find more .30-06 ammo to practice with!

Josh

 

[BK]

If you can't kill an elk with a quartering away shot using a .30-30, holding a 7mm won't make you any more of a shooter.

 

[saturno_v]

Except that it does. For example, a quartering away shot would be a no-no for a .30-30. But that might be the only shot you'd get, and if it's your first elk, it would be difficult to resist the temptation.

With a 7mm Rem Mag loaded with a heavy, premium bullet, simply aim for the leg on the far side. You have a rifle that will plow through the stomach, go through the boiler room, and still have enough steam to break the leg.

Again...all depends on the distance...your 7 mm would be able to do that at 200 yards, my 338 WIn MAg at 400+ where the 30-30 would do it from 100 or so....did you read H&H's daughter hunting adventure on an elk with picture???

Have you ever seen what kind of penetration a premium 30-30 load get at short distance???

Angle shot, not ideal placement, complete penetration....

 

[HarleyFixer]

All I hunted with here in Idaho till I was almost 30 yo was my pre 64 Winchester 30-30 and it was all I needed for the elk I killed.

170-180 grain bullets work fine.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I think what ArmedBear is saying is spot on - during the early season in September when they are rutting, the males lose their heads (damned females!) and are much easier to get close to and call in. BUT, most states if not all, allow only archery or muzzleloader seasons during that time. But later on, when they're done rutting, they're wiser, and a longer range firearm would be sorely wanted, when you see a big one at 300 plus yards and all you have is a .30-30. In the Aspen thickets, there'd be nothing better though, as far as rifles go.

 

[bearmgc]

I didn't read for content his original post, and now see that he does have a 30-06, but is not familiar with it. As mentioned by others, yes, I would also strongly urge him to start practicing with the 30-06, and find a good elk load that it will shoot accurately. I would also agree that with a first time elk hunt, the temptation may be great to take a less than adequate shot with the 30-30. But still true to my original belief, if that's all he had, and if he stayed within the limits of the 30-30 with a 170gr nosler partition, elk can be his. I have seen the results of good stalking on post rut elk many times in Wyoming Bridger Tetons and shoshoni Nat. Forest. Stalking is effective ANY time.

 

[T.R.]

30-30 does its very BEST work 150 yards or less. For this reason, my elk rifle is a .308 shooting pointed 180 grain ammo. I have taken many elk that were 200 yards or farther, beyond the limitations of the time proven 30-30. Of course, the skilled woodsman who passes up such shots will do okay with his 30-30.

TR

 

[schlockinz]

I'd try to become more familiar with the 06.

The 3030 will take it, but you'll get a little extra range that may be needed with that 06.

However, if your hunting thick woods in Oregon and won't be looking at 150+ yd shots, use the 30-30 if you're more accurate with it.

 

[wankerjake]

Ok I can't resist anymore. I don't really have anything new to say, maybe just in other words. Your 30-06 is a more powerful cartridge so it may be better to familiarize yourself with it. However, if you really do have the discipline to only take a close shot under 150 yards then there is no reason not to use the 30-30. If there is potentail for longer shots then I would recommend scoping your 30-06 and using that. Also maybe I missed it are you hunting bull or cow? If you are hunting for bulls I would lean more towards the '06. They are damned big animals and the bigger the better. But it is your choice, and if you follow the advice on the restrictions of the 30-30 cartridge you will be fine, especially for cows. People in this thread are talking like the 30-30 is a pea-shooter, I really don't understand it. Inside 150 yards the 30-30 packs a heck of a punch.

My other question would be how much hunting experience do you have? Have you successfully hunted deer? If you hunting experience/skill level is lacking then bigger is probably better, but if you do indeed shoot better with your 30-30 than your 30-06 then you should use it. Making a good shot is what is most important. My best advice is to practice shooting a lot and do some scouting. Leave this argument behind and get familiar with the area and the animal. This will give you a better idea of your limitatons and you can plan accordingly. Either way good luck, there is nothing quite like hunting elk.

 

[usmc1371]

YAT_YAZ
"Roosevelt and Tule Elk are substantially smaller than the American Elk".... Please state your sorce.
I have killed one roselvelt cow and and a dozen rocky MT elk including a 6x6 bull in the sawtooth Mts in Idaho and the rosy cow was BIGGER in body weight than any of the rocky mt elk. BnC records horn in inches, not elk by body mass rosy elk have shorter thicker antlers because of the very thick country they live in.
The OP has a scoped 30-06, it is a better elk rifle 99% of the time and will alow more shot options. Like I said befor NW Oregon is steep, very thick, and everything is wet in elk season. Two things happen if you wound an elk here. One is it runs off leaving an incredible tough tracking job. Two it runs off and the next guy down the hill shoots your elk, guts it, packs it out and when you get done tracking you find a gut pile and some brass bigger than 30-30. Not being a dick I have just hunted elk Where the OP is talking about more than once.

 

[Arkel23]

If you keep the shots close and have good shot placement it will do. I wouldn't use a 30-30 for elk, but people have and still do.

 

[running iron]

Anyone that thinks elk are bigger in Oregon than in N.Az. better do their homework before flapping their gums! Hate misinformation. If you think I'm wrong due the research. But please if you come here, leave your peashooters home.