30 cal sabots & 22 cal bullets

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cpt-t

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I need some help, I have tried 4 different 30-06 rifles and none of them shot the sabots very well at all. I was hopeing one of you guys might have had some experience with this. There must be some thing that I am doing something very wrong. I would really like to make this work and my 30-06`s wouldn`t just sit in the safe so much. But for the life of me I am not having any luck. Thanks in advance for any info or advice you guys might give for I am really stumped. ken
 
It is my understanding that the gun needs to be modified or optimized for sabots. I could be wrong but from the limited reading I have done on the subject that is the impression I got.
 
Your problem might be why factory sabots did not take off 35 years ago for remmy when they loaded them. I have a 788 remmy that is very accurate and tried them in 308 back then. Shot big groups,or small patterns. Also if you don't have a chrony to check velocity it could be your over powering them and leaving plastic residue in the barrel? It would be interesting to see how a R5 rifled barrel handles them.
 
sabots in high velocity rifles didnt take of well cuz they didnt work well.if they did and the op was askin legtimate question then why are they not more popular?
 
I was looking at trying sabots to shoot smaller and lighter bullets at higher velocity out of a TC barrel chambered in .500S&W.

The issue is that if the bullet is a LOT smaller and lighter than what the twist rate was set for then you won't get the proper stabilizing spin and the accuracy will suffer.

When you start looking at the shift from the weight of a .308 bullet down to that of a .22 something bullet you're looking at a huge jump in weight. So to expect it to stabilize at the spin rate set by the .30 cal barrel simply isn't realistic.

Now a .30 cal sabot holding a 7mm bullet? That would be something worth trying.

For my part I've picked up some sabots which will allow me to play around with some .45 and .429 caliber bullets out of the .500S&W cases. Being a single shot I don't need to worry about set back from the unavoidably soft crimps either.
 
I need some help, I have tried 4 different 30-06 rifles and none of them shot the sabots very well at all.
You can try 400 and you'll get the same results -- sabots don't work well in rifles.

A better idea would be to load a light .30 caliber bullet -- say 130 grains -- to something around 3,200 fps and use that for varmiting.
 
So would hard-casting a dart resembling an APDS penetrator (or using one those flechettes they sell by the pound at CTD) improve the situation any when trying to produce accurate HV Sabot rounds? May mean having to make your own sabots as well, but has anyone ever tested such a thing in small arms?
 
So would hard-casting a dart resembling an APDS penetrator (or using one those flechettes they sell by the pound at CTD) improve the situation any when trying to produce accurate HV Sabot rounds? May mean having to make your own sabots as well, but has anyone ever tested such a thing in small arms?
They were called flechettes, and were used in fragmenting weapons and also to make a "buckshot" cartridge for the M79.

When clouds of them are driven by high explosives they work well at short ranges. But not in ordinary firearms they were a failure,
 
No, I believe he is referring to the shape, not the flechettes themselves.


A dart shaped projectile would absolutely work better in a sabot. It will be drag or fin stabilized and not spin stabilized.

Since a lack of spin stabilization is the problem going with a small .22 diameter bullet because the rifling of the larger caliber barrel won't stabilize the small bullets, not needing spin stabilization will help.


That said drag and fin stabilization may not be as precise as you have come to expect. It is more complicated to make a perfect set of fins on multiple projectiles than a perfect bullet. So under MOA accuracy should not be expected. But it may still be much better than keyholing rounds with horrible accuracy.



Another limitation will be the fins themselves need to fit inside the sabot with ample protection between them and the rifling, this limits the size of the dart even further.

You are also limited by the law.
The ATF has determined that the law states that a .308 is a handgun round I believe, and so using a steel projectile would make it an AP handgun round in violation of federal law.
Making complicated little shapes out of soft metals can give disappointing results. If your thin little fins bend or warp when subject to the stresses of firing because the metal is too soft then they won't do any good.
However if you are using metals that are too hard they may be illegal.
Hard fins also absolutely would need a sabot that is of a thickness that it insures they will never actually touch the rifling, otherwise they may damage it.

However I do not think they consider a 30-06 a handgun round, so you should be in luck.
 
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A dart shaped projectile would absolutely work better in a sabot. It will be drag or fin stabilized and not spin stabilized.
Nope.

If you fire a fin-stabilized projectile in a rifled barrel, the ruckus kicked up by the rotating fins will dramatically reduce your velocity. The Army used Long Rod Penetrators -- fin-stabilized projectiles -- in the 105mm tank gun. But that gun was rifled, so they had to fit slip rings on the sabot.
 
Ah! That makes sense vern. I wondered why the newer 120mm on the Abrams was a smoothbore while the Brits still rifle theirs. Guess it has a lot to do with optimizing for the "Silver Bullet" APDS. The downside would be less accuracy with HEAT or HEP rounds. Good for canister shot though...
 
HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) rounds are also fin stabilized, and in the 105mm also had slip rings. The HEAT round works with shaped charges based on the Monroe Principle (explosives exert pressure at right angles to their surfaces.) The explosive charge is cone-shaped, with the open end of the cone toward the enemy. If it is fired through a rifled tube without slip rings, the spin destablizes the explosive jet that comes out of the cone and seriously degrades the round's ability to penetrate armor.
 
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