.30 Carbine Blackhawk v. .327 Fed Mag Blackhawk

[jski]

I've been shooting the .30 Carbine Blackhawk for years. And yes, if you fire ammo intended for an M1 Carbine with an 18" barrel you'll get a large muzzle flash and loud report. But I reload and I use the same charge I do for my .357: 14-15 gr. of H110.

And guess what? My Blackhawk .30 Carbine and my Blackhawk .357 are pretty much INDISTINGUISHABLE when firing.

I believe the .30 Carbine cartridge really reaches its full potential as a pistol cartridge.

 

[Barry the Bear]

I've been shooting the .30 Carbine Blackhawk for years. And yes, if you fire ammo intended for an M1 Carbine with an 18" barrel you'll get a large muzzle flash and loud report. But I reload and I use the same charge I do for my .357: 14-15 gr. of H110.

And guess what? My Blackhawk .30 Carbine and my Blackhawk .357 are pretty much INDISTINGUISHABLE when firing.

I believe the .30 Carbine cartridge really reaches its full potential as a pistol cartridge.

How? No cartridge reaches its full potential in a handgun. We can supe up and magnumize all we want but we can never beat the performance of that same round out of a rifle.

 

[CraigC]

Barry the Bear:


The data below is directly from the Hodgdon reloading data website.

.30 Carbine with 100 gr bullet
Maximum Load H110
Grains 15.5
Velocity (ft/s) 1,762
Pressure 36,100 CUP

.327 Fed Mag with 100 gr bullet
Maximum Load H110
Grains 13.2
Velocity (ft/s) 1,525
Pressure 38,500 PSI

Except the links I posted featured velocities taken from actual guns.

 

[cal44mag]

No trouble finding 30 cal carbine factory ammo at local stores.

I practically never see 327 Federal around here.

But, on the other hand, I like the idea of a lower powered 32 S&W Long option.

 

[Fiv3r]

I don't think I have ever seen .30 carbine on the shelves. Then again, I don't have anything chambered in it, so I don't look real hard.

The only stores that stock .327 around me are outdoors shops that cater mostly to hunting and gun owners.

I like the idea of the .327. I love my sp101 chambered in it. I don't shoot much .327 at all, but it's not really a plinking round. I don't shoot a ton of SD 9mm either. I rather like that I can shoot about 5 different kinds of ammo out of the gun. I keep the .327 for self defense, and I do like the ballistics.

If I were picking between the two guns, I would probably lean toward .327 just because the ammo options as I don't reload.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Barry the Bear:

The data below is directly from the Hodgdon reloading data website.

.30 Carbine with 100 gr bullet
Maximum Load H110
Grains 15.5
Velocity (ft/s) 1,762
Pressure 36,100 CUP

.327 Fed Mag with 100 gr bullet
Maximum Load H110
Grains 13.2
Velocity (ft/s) 1,525
Pressure 38,500 PSI

Just a note, in that Hodgdon data the 30 Carbine was tested in a 7" barrel and the .327 Federal Magnum in a 5" barrel. Not quite the same.

 

[jski]

From TAFFIN TESTS: THE .30 CARBINE:

Many sixguns shoot well with jacketed bullets; others do well with cast bullets. Happiness is finding one that does both. The Ruger .30 Carbine does both.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I've been shooting the .30 Carbine Blackhawk for years. And yes, if you fire ammo intended for an M1 Carbine with an 18" barrel you'll get a large muzzle flash and loud report. But I reload and I use the same charge I do for my .357: 14-15 gr. of H110.

And guess what? My Blackhawk .30 Carbine and my Blackhawk .357 are pretty much INDISTINGUISHABLE when firing.

I believe the .30 Carbine cartridge really reaches its full potential as a pistol cartridge.

That makes sense to me. The powders for both are one and the same in most cases. The only 357 magnum powder I use is 2400, but I use it for 30 carbine also. I suppose in a revolver it won't be necessary to load to carbine pressure to activate case extraction. I think I'll try this. All I need now is a Blackhawk revolver.

 

[jski]

Barry the Bear,

As you rightly pointed out every cartridge does better the longer the barrel, up to a point. Hence, every gun, long gun or pistol, is a compromise. But if we are to have pistols at all, we must decide what is an acceptable compromise.

The .30 Carbine round is essentially a pistol round put into a short rifle, a carbine, for logistics troops in WWII. They had decided the 1911 was basically combat ineffective from WWI enemy casualty studies. What they needed was a light, easy recoil weapon to function as a side arm. But have it still be effective. And history records that as the M1 Carbine. I have 2.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I agree with this. The 30 carbine is more of a pistol cartridge than a rifle cartridge. Not much difference in 35,000 psi (357) and 40,000 psi (30 carb) and both cases hold about the same amount of powder. Neither one reach their full potential without a longer barrel. In my opinion the 357 is the most versatile revolver cartridge ever developed. So where does that leave the 327 magnum? Doesn't seem to be a lot of wiggle room between those two cartridges (357 and 30 Carb) that have been around forever. I think reloaders probably understand a lot more about new cartridges than the general public.

 

[gotboostvr]

It's worth noting that the 30 carbine velocity is from a 7" barrel vs a 5" for the 327 Mag. Two inches either way is going to change those numbers for both rounds. Not exactly apples to apples unless they both were fired from the same length barrel.

Also worth noting is that the 327 Fed has a max PSI of 45,000. That data only takes it into the 38k range.

 

[LOLBELL]

It's worth noting that the 30 carbine velocity is from a 7" barrel vs a 5" for the 327 Mag. Two inches either way is going to change those numbers for both rounds. Not exactly apples to apples unless they both were fired from the same length barrel.

It's also worth noting that AE 100 in 327 will consistently average about 1750fps out of a 5.5" Blackhawk. I have had a few go as high as 1805fps. Those AE 100's are the hottest I have chrono'd out of the 327s I've tested. I don't load anything over about 1500fps using AA9

 

[jski]

The best data I could find for the .327 Mag with an 100gr. bullet (from Hodgdon website):

Case: Federal
Twist: 1:16"
Primer: Federal 200, Small Pistol Magnum
Barrel Length: 5"
Trim Length: 1.200"

BULLET WEIGHT. 100 GR. HDY XTP
Manufacturer. Hodgdon
Powder. CFE Pistol
Maximum Load
Grains. 7.0
Velocity (ft/s). 1,451
Pressure. 42,300 PSI

 

[CraigC]

The best data I could find for the .327 Mag with an 100gr. bullet (from Hodgdon website):

You're obviously trying to skew the discussion towards the .30Carbine, rather than looking for the truth.

The link I provided showed 1700fps for the same bullet with H110.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Where did we go wrong here?

The 327 is essentially a 30 carbine cartridge with a rim. The case length of the 30 carbine is 0.09" longer and the 327 bullet dia. is 0.04" bigger.

I'm not seeing a huge difference in performance in either cartridge. The 327 can use 32 caliber bullets which makes it a bit more versatile if you load your own but 30 carbine ammo is cheaper by about 10 cents a round. Try finding once fired 327 brass. I've never seen any at my range although I've picked up plenty 30 carbine after the matches.

 

[jski]

CraigC,

I use H110 exclusively when reloading for my .30 Carbine and .357 Mag. Blackhawks, so I should have seen this:

BULLET WEIGHT. 100 GR. HDY XTP
Manufacturer. Hodgdon
Powder. H110

Maximum Load
Grains. 13.2
Velocity (ft/s). 1,525
Pressure. 38,500 PSI

But that's not 1,700 ft./sec.

For the .30 Carbine Hodgdon's website has:

BULLET WEIGHT. 100 GR. SPR SP
Manufacturer. Hodgdon
Powder. H110

Maximum Load
Grains. 15.5
Velocity (ft/s). 1,762
Pressure. 36,100 CUP

 

[Panzerschwein]

I think the .30 carbine model is much niftier but that's just be.

Would be a great BUG to an M1C.

 

[CraigC]

You keep talking about the Hodgdon data, which is well under SAAMI maximum and was gleaned from test barrels. I'm talking about the chronograph/load data from actual guns in the link I posted.

 

[Blacksmoke]

How? No cartridge reaches its full potential in a handgun. We can supe up and magnumize all we want but we can never beat the performance of that same round out of a rifle.

So true! The other day I was shooting my .44 mag Ruger Deerfield carbine at a 3/8 inch thick steel fuel tank at 200 yards with FMJ flat nose standard pressure cartridges. I could not believe the dents added to that tank. Barrel length makes quite a difference.

 

[murf]

a 45acp will do worse out of a rifle than a full-sized pistol. muzzle velocity actually goes down in the longer rifle barrel.

murf

 

[LOLBELL]

The best data I could find for the .327 Mag with an 100gr. bullet (from Hodgdon website):

The data I quoted is not taken off of the internet from a website. It is real 100g bullets sent down range through 2 different chronographs. The velocities were with in 5 fps between the chronographs. I don't know what powder Federal uses in the American Eagle loads, but I'm sure it's not H110 that you and I can buy at our LGS. These loads were fired from a 327 Blackhawk with a 5 1/2" barrel.

I have not been a reloader as long as some here, but in my 10 years of it, I have never had loads post the velocities that the data said it would. Sometimes it was low and sometimes it was high Quite a few times it was grossly over or under exaggerated.

I don't think we are going to sway anyone's opinion of "which is a better cartridge" 327FM or 30 Carbine. I know I'm not moving to the Carbine group. The 30 will do absolutely nothing better than my 327s. We're talking revolvers here not rifles, although that 7 1/2 Carbine is almost a rifle

 

[CraigC]

The .30 would be a fantastic cartridge......if it fit into the Single Six, had a rim and shot .32cal bullets.

 

[LOLBELL]

Hence, we see Buffalo Bore offering .30 Carbine rounds with 125 gr hard cast (BHN 21), gas checked, fat nose bullets --- primarily targeting the Blackhawk community.

BUFFALO BORE FULL POWER+ U.S. 30 M1 CARBINE AMMUNITION 125 grain Hard Cast, Flat Nose, Gas Checked @ 2,100 fps

$30.25 + shipping for 20 rounds, that pushing $2 a round. Thanks but No Thanks

 

[LOLBELL]

The .30 would be a fantastic cartridge......if it fit into the Single Six, had a rim and shot .32cal bullets.

That about sums it up in a nut shell right there.

 

[jski]

Never had any problem with rimless cartridges in a revolver. I noticed that S&W's marksman (Jerry Miculek) favorite revolver is a Performance Center Model 325, a .45ACP revolver.