30 days minuteman fraud

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Interesting. . . . but not terribly surprising. At least he went into it with both eyes open, and he's right. If nothing else, Americans will see illegal immigrants living with no fear of La Migra. Whether that will be a surprise to any American, anywhere, I leave to you.
 
I enjoyed the episode so much that I watched twice.
Also,at no time did I think the show portrayed him as having changed his mind.
 
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My wife and I watched it last night.

We also, did not feel frank had changed his stance on illegal immigration one iota.

While he definitely seemed to warm to the family in question, his feelings on the greater issue were largely unchanged.




B.
 
Spurlock kept referring to Jorge, an immigrant, as an anti immigrant minuteman.

The sense of entitlement that the daughter had and the father's desire to be given citizenship so that he could employ illegals.

Jorge was portrayed, IMO, as a zealot while the illegals were portrayed as reasonable, simple hard working folk, although neither came close to seeing the others side.

These are the things that bothered me most about the show

If you believe Jorge and the minutemen the episode was reedited after the press conference

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=1572
 
Spurlock could have made Frank seem a lot worse if he had tried.I thought Frank was portrayed as a nice guy that happened to have views that oppossed the Gonzales family.
The show even made it clear that Frank was an immigrant himself.
Undoubtedly,Michael Moore would have portrayed Frank much worse than what Spoulock did.
Spurlock even left in what Frank said about the lizards.That made Frank seem like the kind man that he was.
 
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I saw the episode and didn't find it twisted at all.

Frank's political position didn't change regardless of his identifying with them as a real family that he had grown personally close to instead of some abstract group of illegals. He went in believing that legal immigration was the only right course for people wanting to come to the U.S. and came out believing that as well. The fact that he was sympathetic to their desire for a better life in the U.S. and found them admirable as individuals didn't change the bigger issue to him.
 
I too also came away from the programs ending that he still had the same beliefs and ideals of Legal Immigration, not what the producers probably wanted. Looking at the press conference video, you could see the distain of the producers and the network bosses evil eyes looking at him.

Anti-Immigrationsign.gif

John
 
I watched most of this episode...and I think it is important to note that much of the argument presented by Frank rests on the fact that he is a legal immigrant. To me this is a red herring. Mr. Jorge mentioned that he was a Cuban. Cubans have, by and large, enjoyed a much easier pathway to citizenship than other immigrant groups. So his suggestion of sending everyone back and requiring them to return "legally" seems a tad hollow. Now I don't claim to know the circumstances of Mr. Jorge's family's arrival in America...but many families who fled prior too, during and just after the revolution (Late 50's early 60's) arrived undocumented and were welcomed with open arms.

If the circumstances surrounding Mr. Jorge's immigration are such that his pathway to citizenship went relatively unchallenged then his position is a bit Janus-faced.
 
In the latest issue if Time magazine there is an interview with Spurlock. The inerviewer asks Spurlock a question that implied he was leftist/liberal (which he may be in a lot of ways), and Spurlock seemd to try to distance himself from that insuation by saying that he's "pro-gun".

Pretty cool. I'm surprised Time didn't leave that part out.
 
I'm actually torn about this whole immigration problem.

One part of me wants to offer the American dream to any body that wants to come. After all America is the land of immigrants. I know there are millions of Mexicans that want to work and make a better life for their families. Who can blame them.

Another part of me hates these people that break our laws and come here and defiantly parade down main street America waving a foreign flag. I myself am an immigrant and went throught the whole long process to get citizenship. Hell I don't even consider the country where I came from my "homeland". I get so infuriated driving down the streets and seeing signs in Spanish or flipping through the radio and getting 3 out of 5 stations in Spanish. What the hell!!!!!

The Christian part of me want to offer a hand to others in need by at what point do I stop because the food I am giving them is the food I am taking out of my own child's mouth.....

There must be a compromise somewhere.
 
Ajax,

I'm not trying to start a fight here, but what principles are you speaking of?

To clarify:
Are you referring to our nation's laws as principles?
Are you speaking of "Give us your tired, your poor" as a principle?

I'm trying to see where you're going with regards to this issue.

Thanks,
B.


[edited for clarity]
 
I do think the cut of the video that aired tried to imply that his views on immigration had softened with the whole "not going to the border" thing.

50 Freak: I'm much the same way, I don't like either major parties solution all that much. I really like the idea of ending government sponsored social services and letting people that want to come to the US to work and make a bette rlife for themelves do so. No more government handouts, and no dirt cheap undocumented workers willing to work for unacceptable wages just because they can't get "real" jobs.
 
I was referring to this nations laws and the concept of national sovereignty.

The words written on the base of that statue, while beautiful and poetic in all that they signify are there to be seen by LEGAL immigrants as they are processed into the welcoming arms of our nation.
 
lysander
The Cubans are looked at differently than Mexicans and Haitians

They are fleeing political persecution while the others are fleeing poverty. Mexicans and Haitians should stay and make their country better.
That's the basic argument that I have heard and it was explained more to outline the difference of how Haitians and Cubans are treated.
I think the real truth lies in the fact that the America establishment just hates Castro and it's like spiting in his face to let his people come over unfettered. He wiped his face once in the 80's :)

Frank Jorge escaped Cuba, during the revolution I believe, because his father worked for an American country and co-workers got them out
 
I didn't get the impression that Mr. Jorge had changed his views on illegal immigration either. I was worried about the program when during the opening scene they reffered to Mr. Jorge as a anti-immigration minuteman vigilante but I think the program came off ok.
 
Joab,

That is precisely my point. Jorge's stance is tightly tied to his experience as a "legal" immigrant...but as a Cuban who was escaping the revolution...he and his family enjoyed a vastly easier path to citizenship, government aid, english classes, etc. IMHO this makes his "I was legal and you should have to be too," argument a bit duplicitous...because the process by which he and his family became "legal" was much different than the system in place today.

What bothers me the most about this entire immigration "debate" is the fact that it is strictly a diversionary tactic. My premises are as follows:
1) The problem is not the "legality or illegality" of an immigrant's status. The whole "nation of laws" argument is hollow...because as Jefferson suggested...the law is "often but the tyrant's will." Arguably, a law which enjoys such little compliance is broken (sort of like prohibition no?) and needs overhauled.
2) The problem is that our government is perfectly willing to take our money and distribute it carelessly. This angers citizens...and they need a scapegoat...so the immigrants fall into the sights. But it seems to me like you are blaming the wrong party...don't blame the immigrants for playing the game according to the rules (all the rules...not just the "law") that are laid out in front of them.
3) This entire "problem" has the potential to be useful in expanding the breadth and depth of governmental law enforcement in a way that most folks on this board should be very uncomfortable with. Round up and deport some 12 million people? I don't even want to comprehend the kind of law enforcement mechanism that will be put into place to accomplish such a goal.

The people are already here. Many pay taxes via IRS ID numbers, many invest and spend significant amounts of money in the states, and regardless of what might be thought otherwise...many DO fill jobs that would otherwise go unfilled...that is part of the draw to the States in the first place...there is WORK here.

So what is the real problem?
Is everyone angry because these "people" flout the law? Perhaps the law needs fixed..and should focus on ease of entry combined with documentation.

Because they move into neighborhoods that resemble the nations they come from? So? Ever been to the Polish neighborhoods in Chicago, or the Italian neighborhoods in New York?

Because they display the colors of the nations from whence they came? Again....So? Chicago has a monstrous South Side Irish parade every year. What about Columbus Day? etc., etc.

I have a very hard time condemning people for coming to America to do the very thing that almost ALL of our ancestors came here to do.
 
Ajax,

Thanks for clarifying.

To be honest, the issue of the illegal Mexican immigrants is a complicated one if we're trying to enact a practical and moderately humane plan.

However, I think the first step of sealing off our borders, both northern and southern, would be a good one. Sovereignty and cultural dissolution aside, in today's world of heightened terrorist activity I think that actually securing our borders is the sane course of action. Not only would this help from a security standpoint, but it would also be a better starting point for coming up with a solution to the influx of illegal immigration.


B.
 
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