300 blk vs 7.62x39 for hunting deer or hogs

[777funk]

Can the two be looked at as in the same realm? In other words basically irrelevant in their differences as a hunting caliber?

From what I can see it looks like they're on par in energy with 5.56 in the 62 grain 3200 fps range and I see lots of heated debate about it's use for hunting. Then on the flip side, I see lots of advocates who swear by .223 (or at least enjoy using it). I know a guy who's kids have killed several deer (cleanly without trouble) with a .223 bolt action. On the other side, I know a guy with a ruger mini 14 who's only had wounded animals and swears by his old SKS as his go to deer gun.

Curious on the 300 blk vs 7.62x39 comparison. They sure do look similar on paper but with a very slight advantage in speed and energy going to the 7.62x39.

 

[adcoch1]

I haven't shot a deer yet with 300 blk, but I know from personal experience that 7.62x39, at ranges within 200 yds, are very efficient for deer. I am confident that with a hunting bullet that expands at the appropriate velocity, that 300blk should perform equally as well. 30 Cal hunting bullets will make a significantly larger wound channel than all but the biggest ( read too long to fit in an ar15 mag) 223 bullets. Not that 223 can't do the job, but a 30 Cal bullet at similar energy levels will usually do more damage to bones and harder tissue.

 

[MAKster]

The 7.62x39 will have maybe 100 ft lbs more energy than the 300 blk but that isn't enough of a difference to be a deciding factor. If you want to use a semiauto rifle I would pick the 300 blk because you can use a standard AR. If you are going to use a bolt action it would be a toss up.

 

[Olympus]

7.62x39 with the Hornady SST bullet is a great deer cartridge inside 200 yards. I don't own a 300BLK yet, so I can't comment.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I've had both.

Six one way half a dozen the other.

Make your selection based on platform logistical concerns

 

[nathan]

Prvi Partizan has soft point for 7.62 x 39 at sgammo.com

 

[jmr40]

Typical pointed hunting bullets need about 1800 fps at impact to expand reliably. RN bullets designed for 30-30's will work down to about 1600 fps. With any cartridge when velocity drops below that number I'd consider that the maximum effective range.

At the muzzle:

30-30/150 gr---- 2400 fps
7.62X39/150 gr--- 2200 fps
300blk/150 gr ----1900 fps

I'm sure a 300 blk will kill stuff if you hit it, but a 75 gr 223 @ 2800 fps will do more damage, penetrate deeper and be effective at far greater range. For hunting the 300 it is a step down. And I ain't saying the 223 is anything more than adequate.

 

[Newtosavage]

I wondered the same thing for quite a while, and very nearly picked up a Ruger Am. Ranch in .300 BO just for hunting pigs. But after a thorough review of the ballistics, both factory and hand loads, I decided the 7.62x39 was the one I wanted. I also wanted access to all the cheap russian-made stuff for plinking. It's as low as $5/box at our local Academy stores, and that's just hard to beat for fun shooting.

The 7.62x39 kills hogs very dead inside of 100 yards. Beyond 100, they may run a little, but they will still go down. Most of the hogs I shoot are inside 100, but there is a chance they will be past that, so I went with the 7.62x39. I didn't need the sub-sonic option either, which was another reason for the choice.

This is one of the bigger sows I've shot with my Savage 10 Scout in 7.62x39. She was easily 200# and likely very pregnant with 7-10 little ones. One shot to the neck and she dropped in her tracks. I was shooting the excellent Hornady 123-grain SST's that come in their 50-round box. I love that stuff for pigs. Love it. Very accurate and very deadly, and affordable too.

 

[Newtosavage]

Typical pointed hunting bullets need about 1800 fps at impact to expand reliably. RN bullets designed for 30-30's will work down to about 1600 fps. With any cartridge when velocity drops below that number I'd consider that the maximum effective range.

At the muzzle:

30-30/150 gr---- 2400 fps
7.62X39/150 gr--- 2200 fps
300blk/150 gr ----1900 fps

I'm sure a 300 blk will kill stuff if you hit it, but a 75 gr 223 @ 2800 fps will do more damage, penetrate deeper and be effective at far greater range. For hunting the 300 it is a step down. And I ain't saying the 223 is anything more than adequate.

JMR, I like the way you think, and I appreciate anyone who makes an objective review of the numbers. Too few do this anymore IMO.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Typical pointed hunting bullets need about 1800 fps at impact to expand reliably. RN bullets designed for 30-30's will work down to about 1600 fps. With any cartridge when velocity drops below that number I'd consider that the maximum effective range.



At the muzzle:



30-30/150 gr---- 2400 fps

7.62X39/150 gr--- 2200 fps

300blk/150 gr ----1900 fps



I'm sure a 300 blk will kill stuff if you hit it, but a 75 gr 223 @ 2800 fps will do more damage, penetrate deeper and be effective at far greater range. For hunting the 300 it is a step down. And I ain't saying the 223 is anything more than adequate.

What barrel length and Why are you limiting yourself to 150grain bullets?

7.62x39 or 300blk with a 125g Nosler b-tip or TSX will kill any deer or hog a 150g 30/30 will and do it with a surprisingly useful trajectory. Nosler themselves will tell you the ballistic tip is good down to 1600fps

Also FWIW your 20" 30/30 is NOT getting 150 grain bullets up to 2400fps

 

[R.W.Dale]

My longest deer kill to date was a nice little meat doe with a 7.62x39 ar15 at a whopping 278 yards lasered using a hand loaded 125g Nosler ballistic tip at just shy of 2400fps. Expansion was quite adequate.

 

[777funk]

RW, you are thinking exactly what I was thinking as far as his limiting the bullets to 150gr. I believe I gather from Hodgdon's Reloading Data Center, the 110gr bullet will deliver the best numbers in 300BLK at 2350 out of a 16" barrel at 1350 ft lbf. I think things start tipping down hill as the bullet weight goes up... until Subsonic where you may reach an advantage for other reasons (some say the entire purpose of 300BLK). Not the purpose of most civilians though I wouldn't think. At 150 grains that data center is showing 1900 fps at 1203 ft lbf.

EDIT to make one more comment: RW, JMR's comment about 30-30 150gr speed. Hodgdon shows a 2500 fps load with LVR powder out of a 24" barrel. So it might be around 2300 or maybe even 2400 with a 20" barrel. Not sure what that powder's burn rate is like. That would be 1850 ft lbf if we figure a 2350 fps velocity.

 

[cpt-t]

777funk: I don`t have or have I even shot a 300blk, so I can`t say anything about them. But I have had a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 for several years and I have hunted with, and shot this rifle a lot. I have shot a few Deer and several Pig`s and Coyotes with this rifle. And have I have not lost any thing I have shot with it. I have shot a few Pigs past 200 yds, but mostly 100yds and less, and a Coyote at about 250yds. But I really think that is stretching my rifles capabilities quit a bit. My Rifle likes that cheap steel cased Wolf brand ammo in 123gr or 124gr HP`s better than any thing else I have tried in it. So I have bought several cases of that particular Wolf Brand Ammo. I have yet to start reloading for my rifle yet. IMHO I think my CZ 527 Rifle in 7.62x39 is just a great Hunting and Walking around Rifle.
ken

 

[777funk]

The 527 seems like a top choice for the x39 round. They're a little pricey but seem to be worth it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The 527 seems like a top choice for the x39 round. They're a little pricey but seem to be worth it.

I had one and I assure you they are

 

[justin22885]

300 blackout factory ammo is generally loaded with magnum pistol powder for short barrels, so it wont match x39 from a rifle, however if you hand load your own using rifle powder and loading to 62kpsi on 5.56 brass, it will match 7.62x39 and unlike the 7.62x39 you can get 150 grain bullets designed to expand at low velocities (such as those made for 30-30)

if youre not going subsonic or with a short barrel and since you will probably need to buy a new 5 round magazine anyway, i recommend you go with 7.62x40WT because its designed to maximize performance with supersonic ammo, you will actually surpass 7.62x39 with 7.62x40WT hand loads

one last option i like is .277 wolverine which is 95% the energy of 6.8SPC, add a couple extra inches to the barrel length and itll match 6.8SPC of a slightly shorter barrel, a 120 grain hornady SST has a ballistic coefficient of .400 which means not only does the bullet have higher velocity and a flatter trajectory, so you'll have just as much energy at distance, but a flatter trajectory, better accuracy, and shorter time of flight

 

[R.W.Dale]

The top performing powders for 7.62x39 and 300 blackout are generally the same.

Powders that fall in the not quite rifle but a little slower than magnum handgun powders. AA1680 being the most noteworthy.

The pressure rating and bore case ratio dictate what powders perform best. Barrel length is almost irrelevant

 

[Newtosavage]

It's surprising to me how many folks want to make .300 BO = 7.62x39, and 7.62x39 = 30-30. I wish it would stop.

 

[justin22885]

It's surprising to me how many folks want to make .300 BO = 7.62x39, and 7.62x39 = 30-30. I wish it would stop.

why? theyre all 30 caliber rifle cartridges capable of putting the same bullets down range at the same velocity, its not hard to match a 30-30 with a smaller cartridge when a 30-30 only operates at 42,000 PSI, x39 and 300 blackout pushes the same bullets at higher pressures

lets also not forget published .30-30 velocities are done with a 20 inch barrel or greater, 7.62x39 velocities are almost always recorded out of a 16 inch barrel...

out of a 16 inch barrel with .30-30 you will get about 2100fps with a 150 grain bullet pushed to maximum pressure..

7.62x39 from a 16 inch barrel with a 150 grain bullet pushed to max pressure is getting 2200-2250fps...

a .300 AAC blackout with the same barrel length, powder, and bullet will get about 2200fps loaded to max pressure

and the 7.62x40WT, same barrel, bullet, and powder as the rest will get 2300fps (what the 30-30 requires a 20" barrel to achieve)

so they are all fair comparisons

 

[hq]

so they are all fair comparisons

Very much, yes. IMO 7.62x39 is one of the most underrated cartridges among shooters and hunters. It has a lot of bad rep due to cheap surplus bulk ammo of varying quality and the most common chambering in AK:s, few of which qualify as precision firearms. As you pointed out, ballistically it has a lot in common with .30-30 and .300BO and with handloads or good quality factory ammo it's far better and more versatile than many people can even imagine. Still retaining full ability to take advantage of dirt cheap bulk ammo for plinking and less than serious target practise.

It might do better among the naysayers if it was renamed .311 Power Outage and marketed with vigorous hype...

 

[berettashotgun]

Case capacity of the 7.62x39 is plenty more for handlaoders than the 300 blackout; Lapua cases in a 20" barrel gets pretty fast with case pressures where they should be with a bolt gun.
I would not even consider the 300 for any purpose except an upper, now the 6x45...............heck yeah.

 

[777funk]

Interesting on the 7.62x40. Looks like the energy is actually higher than the 5.56. That can't be said of the 300BLK in any published loading I've found.

It's actually showing as high as the x39 on Wilson's website.

What I wonder is how long the stretched out case necks will last. I watched a guy making that brass. Looks like it works fine but I'd bet where you could get 20 uses out of neck sized 5.56, you'd get 3-4 out of the stretched x40 brass.

Other than that thought... I like it!

EDIT: One other thing I don't like... it's looking like limited sources for barrels and the mag has to be converted. Really, is there anything wrong with the 5.56? With a good expanding bullet, I wonder if the performance is any worse than most of it's competition (6.8, 300BLK, 7.62x39, etc).

 

[Newtosavage]

so they are all fair comparisons

Not in the real world, on game. At least, not in my experience shooting literally hundreds of hogs. But it is fun to talk about I guess.

I agree that given a strong bolt action like my Savage, the 7.62x39 should handload close to the FACTORY ballistics of the 30-30. But a 170 grain flat nose bullet from a 30-30 at 100 yards packs a lot of punch. I can't tell you how many 200+ lb. hogs I've dropped where they stand with that combination. So far, my Savage 7.62x39 has only dropped one hog where she stood (the one in the photo above) and all the others have run a ways before they died, as did the buck I shot with it.

While the 7.62x39 is a very impressive little round, and I absolutely love mine, it's has not quite been the equal of my 30-30 Winchester when it comes to dropping critters where they stand.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

If a semi-auto is what you are after in 7.62x39 or .300 BO for deer and hogs...my opinion go get yourself a .30 Rem AR. It fits in a AR-15 platform shoots a 150gr @ 2500-2600fps and stomps both the aforementioned calibers handidly

 

[mf-dif]

They're so close ballistically. I guess the real question is what rifle is going to be the cartridge host.