300 Min Mag < 1 MOA at 1000 yds? Really?

[B yond]

I've decided I want to start shooting at what I consider medium to long ranges (400 to 1000 yards) and have begun researching calibers and rifles in preparation for a purchase next year.

While researching the 300 Win Mag, I came across this statement on wikipedia:

Sub 1 minute-of-angle (MOA) accuracy out to 1,000 yards (910 m) is not unusual in precision-built rifles firing match-grade ammunition.

Can anyone here do this? If so, what rifle and what load are you using?

 

[Abel]

MOA @ 1000 yards is a ten inch group. Many here claim to be able to do this. I've never tried myself.

 

[Psyco Tyco]

totally possible with the .300 win mag

thats why the british so readily purchase accuracy international rifles in this caliber.
it all boils down to practice, quality gear, practice, quality ammo, and lots of practice. though at that range id hope your only intentions are killing paper

 

[taliv]

i usually shoot 2-3 MOA using a sling in long range HP matches with usually 14 or 15 out of 20 shots inside the 20" ten ring and the other 5 or 6 shots in the 9 ring.

with front/rear rests, 1 moa isn't out of the question, what with them having to change the x ring to 5" at 1000 yrds for the F-class shooters.

now, if you're talking 3 shot internet groups, yeah. that's pretty easy.

edit: i'm using 6mmXC and 260remAI and occasionally 308win. no way i'd use a 300win mag.

 

[Abel]

now, if you're talking 3 shot internet groups, yeah. that's pretty easy.

I love internet shots. Those are cake.

 

[B yond]

no way i'd use a 300win mag.

Why?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I love internet shots. Those are cake.

My favorites are the groups that are more than 3 shots but the poster circles all but the 3 closest shots and writes flier next to em as if they never happened

 

[blackops]

If your just punching paper I'd go with a 6.5 over the 300wm. The 300wm is more recoil and more money per round.

 

[noyes]

Why?

+2

Some interesting info:

Lee Rasmussen set a new .50 BMG Single Target World Record at the FCSA 2009 World Championships held at the NRA Whittington Center in Raton, NM this 4th of July by shooting a 1.955" 5-shot group in the Heavy Gun Class 1000yd record competition and by doing so breaks the late Skip Talbot’s 2.600" long standing single-group record set in 1999 by over 1/2". Lee’s group works out to .1868 MOA.

http://www.fcsa.org/wwwroot/index.php

 

[B yond]

If your just punching paper I'd go with a 6.5 over the 300wm. The 300wm is more recoil and more money per round.

The main purpose is for punching paper, but I'd like something that could be used for big game too.

 

[MCMXI]

Can anyone here do this? If so, what rifle and what load are you using?

It's absolutely possible but can many people do it ... definitley not!! Most if not all of the benchrest world records are set on calm, cool days. Wind, or more precisely, variable wind is the big problem. Ken Brucklacher shot a 3.137″ group at 1000 yards with a .300 Wby Mag (100-8X) score so we know that rifles and ammunition are capable of such a feat. But that kind of shooting from field positions with a rifle weighing less than 20lb with any kind of variable wind ... good luck!!!

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/ken-brucklacher-sets-1000-yard-score-record-100-8x/

I can't even shoot sub MOA (15 or 20 shot groups) at 600 yards let alone 1000 yards! 500 yards yes, but 600 yards ... not yet anyway.

 

[taliv]

Why?

borrow a friend's and shoot 25 rnds prone. wait an hour and do it again. wait another hour and do it a 3rd time. nevermind posting pics of your targets; post before and after pictures of your shoulder.

seriously, long range is something you have to practice, and that caliber is too expensive and hurts too much for most people (myself included) to use. especially when you can get a short action caliber with better ballistics.

fwiw, i don't think it's ethical to take 1000 yrd shots on big game, though 400 is not unreasonable for some shooters. i don't know anything about which cartridges are appropriate for taking game though. i just shoot paper and bugs

 

[MCMXI]

borrow a friend's and shoot 25 rnds prone. wait an hour and do it again. wait another hour and do it a 3rd time. nevermind posting pics of your targets; post before and after pictures of your shoulder.

I've shot 88 round matches with my .300 Win Mag with no problems or pain whatsoever ... but that rifle weighs 18lb. 25 hot rounds from any of my .45-70 Govt. Marlins gets old ... I bought a sissy pad for load development for that very reason.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Yea, possible, but also possible with a .308 or 30-06 for less pain and money.

 

[MinnMooney]

O.P :

Can anyone here do this? If so, what rifle and what load are you using?

Of course! Don't you believe all of the "My (fill in any favorite rifle here) can shoot 1/4" at 400 yards all day long as long as I do my part." statements that you read here and on other sites???

This summer I shot a 3-shot 2" group at my 411 yard target on a reasonably calm day. Problem : I don't believe in "3-shot groups" and second, I couldn't repeat it for the rest of the day.
When I shoot at 1000 - 1200 yards on the prairies of N. Dakota, my moa for 5-shot groups averages about 2 - 2.5 on rather calm days. I use a 4x8 sheet of plywood and get 10" - 30" groups. I'd love to shoot 8" - 12" "all day long" but I haven't found the rifle that'll do it yet.

 

[Maverick223]

Can anyone here do this? If so, what rifle and what load are you using?

I can't do it but my rifle can (Desert Tactical Arms SRS). I am confident that my loads can too (190gr. SMK, 208 A-Max, or 240gr. SMK over IMR-4831; though I am transitioning to H-4831sc for better stability).

I've shot 88 round matches with my .300 Win Mag with no problems or pain whatsoever ... but that rifle weighs 18lb.

Same experience here with my lightweight LR rifle...a mere 15lbs.

 

[USSR]

Started LR shooting with my custom built .30-06. Those 190gr bullets at 2900fps DO get your attention after firing a few of them prone. My next LR build was a 6.5 Swede. Ahh, now we're talking. Soft as a baby's kiss, and shoots 5MOA flatter to boot.

Don

 

[Deaf Smith]

The U.S. Military just went are re-did all their sniper M24s to .300 Winchester Magnum. They also bought something like 38.4 milion rounds of MK 248 MOD 1 .300 WM ammo.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20090618.aspx

And I suspect the U.S. Military snipers can get 1 MOA out of those guns!

Deaf

 

[Maverick223]

^Are you sure they have actually completed the switch (couldn't read past the part where it said they had to replace the bbl and the receiver on the M24 :banghead?

 

[230therapy]

10 inch groups at 1,000 yards is excellent shooting. I'd love to have the skill and gear to perform at that level.

 

[Z-Michigan]

And I suspect the U.S. Military snipers can get 1 MOA out of those guns!

Why? Serious competitors in F-class and some other shooting sports are likely far better shots than your average military sniper. There is far more to sniping than just accurate shooting, and most snipers will have been in the military under 10 years, often a lot less, with the amount of practice and experience that realistically goes with that (you don't become a sniper at basic). Not saying that the best won't be able to, just that I wouldn't expect it from the average.

 

[52grain]

you won't find me doing that. First of all I'm not capable. Second, I took Bruiser to the range today and fired all that I could stand (and afford). Which happened to be 20 rounds, fired over the course of about 45 minutes.

Bruiser in this case happens to be a .308 win that weighs 10 pounds including scope.

 

[MGD 45]

It's doable.....gotta have the right equipment, right conditions.....but definitely doable. Done it several times with my .308.....

 

[tango2echo]

Possible: Yes.
Probable: No.

I've sent tens of thousands of rounds downrange at over 1000 yards and can shoot that well maybe 15% of the time. The difference between 800 and 1000 is ballistically much greater than 200 yards. On a no wind day I can ring steel 12x12 plates at 800 and bust clay pidgeons at 600 all day. Making the jump to 1000 where the bullets are becoming sub-sonic is a whole new ballgame. Having to call dope when you have 8kts of wind at 3/4 effect at 1000 yards gives a new meaning to "difficult." I do well in F/TR type matches locally and regionally, yet stand in awe of what some of the national shooters can do. A few years back I witnessed a 3.8" group at 1000 in a full-effect 15kt crosswind. There are probably fewer shooters in the world capable of doing that than there are athleates who can swim against Micheal Phelps, run against Usain Bolt, or ride a bike against Lance Armstrong.

I recently had a dinner party here at my house where I have a private range to 1000 yards. The topic on long-range shooting at game came up among some very good hunters and marksmen. Men who have traveled Africa and Alaska. I bet the five of them that not one could shoot an 8" group of 5 rounds at 400 yards with a scoped .243 of mine that will shoot .5" at 100 yards. After two attemps each with ten failures my point was conceeded. Yes, there are very accurate rifles and very good marksmen; But putting it all together at the exact instant necessary to shoot tiny groups is a skill few can accomplish.

My two cents.

t2e

 

[Maverick223]

Making the jump to 1000 where the bullets are becoming sub-sonic is a whole new ballgame.

With the right loads, a .300WM is nowhere near sub-sonic at 1k, even with the worst loads i'm not sure it is. FWIW my loads are still barely supersonic at 1760yds. Doesn't mean that most folks can accurately shoot that far, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility for the platform.