300 Min Mag < 1 MOA at 1000 yds? Really?
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huntinggamo
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not all systems are switched yet, one of our 3 has undergone the transformation, the M24 already had a long action even though it was using a short action cartridge, they switched the barrel and stock, retained the receiver, trigger unit, and optics. they replaced the stock with an AICS unit (best idea ever). I love the new units, i would have gone with 338 lapua mag but that is just me...^Are you sure they have actually completed the switch (couldn't read past the part where it said they had to replace the bbl and the receiver on the M24 :banghead?
Tim the student
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All of our snipers always said that fieldcraft was/is a much bigger part of sniping than shooting is. While all I have ever seen are good shots, most were not phenomenal shots. But they damn sure do have patience and discipline out the yin yang.
Steve Marshall
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Many rifles are intrinsically capable of shooting 1 MOA out to any reasonable range. BUT see what 1mph wind variability does to groups. A small parallax error will defeat all but the best rifleman. Try shooting in a "boil" someday to know frustration. Ammunition that varies in velocity by just 25 fps will change impact by upwards of 6" at 1000. There is a reason that some shooters do better than others.
This was a recent attempt at 1000 yards.....I was doing a little experimenting with my hand loads. I'm pushing the 168 grain AMAX bullets to 2793 fps with my load data. Went to the range with 10 rounds. Took 3 rounds to get on target, first round on paper landed high in the head.....made a elevation change....next 3 rounds landed on the right side by the shoulder arm area. I had 4 rounds left, so I made a slight wind change & sent the last four into a group that measured 5.490"......yes, I know......it isn't a 5-shot group! LOL!
Very happy with the result........but conditions were great, so probably not repeatable on a regular basis......but happy none the less!!
Looking through the scope at the target....scope is on 14X.....target is full size Military E-type...
Very happy with the result........but conditions were great, so probably not repeatable on a regular basis......but happy none the less!!
Looking through the scope at the target....scope is on 14X.....target is full size Military E-type...
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sonier
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6mm/06 ackley Imp. I want to build this on a simple rem 700 action. Im hoping I can get the flat trajectory and less recoil. The 6mm bullet will be prone to wind drift very easly though.
Maverick223
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I believe they are simply stating that the cartridge is capable of such performance, and without a doubt it is (as is many others)...OTOH trigger pullers that can match that level of performance are in short supply.
USSR
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Yep. Wind will eat your lunch every time.
Don
taliv said:
Then perhaps you'll like this target from last Friday's session. To make it more realistic, I won't tell you exactly how big the target is but suffice it to say that it's fairly representative of a "typical" man with wooden legs ... a pirate perhaps!
Unless you're punching paper, it's unlikely that you're going to know the exact size of the target. So what's your estimate of the range? If you had to make this hit, what range would you dial in? I was making center of mass hits right off the bat with 0.7 mil of windage dialed in but I ranged the [target] with my Swarovski. I bought a can of white paint with me on Friday and wanted to spray the target but it turns out it's in the middle of a live fire explosive range so the OIC wouldn't let me wander out into the long grass.
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Maverick223
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Interesting to know. My point was that the article said that they replaced the receiver, which makes no sense at all, that is the reason for the switch, the LA receiver. WRT chambering the M24 for the .338LM, unfortunately the LA action still requires quite a bit of modification to accommodate the mammoth .338LM, fortunately the average Army sniper doesn't have need of something that large.
1858, assuming that is an FFP reticle or at the proper magnification range it appears to be about 600yds to me.
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gun guy
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Thats basically a chest shot at 1,000 meters, totally possible, even with a 308. Right between the eyes at 1,000 meters, not sure about that one but it's possible. Can many people do that, no, but most qualified snipers can make that chest shot.
lloveless
Member
I am in awe. I have difficulty getting center of mass at 250 yds. Only 1 range close to home that has a 250 yd range. I don't get there often due to time and distance constraints. I shoot a .308 in a Rem 788. At 100 yds we take deer just fine. Yes I need to practice a lot more.
ll
ll
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MGD 45 said:
BINGO!! It's a full-size 40" upper and the target is 745 yards out from the firing line. I borrowed an old video camera from work last Friday and took some video of a couple of hits on a LaRue Tactical Sniper Target (TG1) at 802 yards. I was using my .308 Win with a PRH 3-15x scope. I just zoomed the camera to the max setting and put it down on my shooting mat. This is my first video and my first time putting anything on YouTube. The LaRue target has a 12" x 12" body and a 6" x 6" head. The target is almost impossible to see with the naked eye given that there's little contrast with the background. It's hard to see any "splash" so you don't learn a whole lot when you miss!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPO5u85cz0o
A higher resolution file can be found HERE but it's over 30MB! As I mentioned, this is my first time making a video and editing it. I could probably make the file smaller while maintaining the quality ... just haven't figured it out yet.
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Zak Smith
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What's the issue here? There are a lot of 1 MOA rifles and most of them can hold 1 MOA at 1000 yards if the load being fired is still solidly supersonic at that distance. The rest is up to the shooter. The rifle, scope, load, etc, knows nothing of wind. Regardless of where the first shot goes, if the rifle can place another four into a sub ten inch group at 1000 in the same conditions, it's a sub-moa rifle (statistical objections aside).
When I want to shoot very small groups at long range, first I know when it's not worth it given the local conditions. But if they are favorable, I try to shoot in the same conditions, which usually means, to me, "before the next wind change."
.300WM with factory loads has approximately the same wind drift performance as .260 Rem, so it's definitely competent at that range.
When I want to shoot very small groups at long range, first I know when it's not worth it given the local conditions. But if they are favorable, I try to shoot in the same conditions, which usually means, to me, "before the next wind change."
.300WM with factory loads has approximately the same wind drift performance as .260 Rem, so it's definitely competent at that range.
USSR
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Quote:
Sub 1 minute-of-angle (MOA) accuracy out to 1,000 yards (910 m) is not unusual in precision-built rifles firing match-grade ammunition.
While I cannot speak for others and their experience, here in the NE (in particular at Williamsport, PA), we don't see very many perfect 1,000 yard F Class scores (the 10 ring is 1MOA, and the X ring is .5MOA). And, it's not for a lack of high quality sticks or excellent shooters. The wind at 200 yards will be blowing one way, and at 800 yards the other way. Your best bet is to get on the first relay in the morning when the wind is at it's calmest. So, based on this environment, I would dispute the statement that it's "not unusual". When everything comes together weather-wise, maybe; but that is usually not the case here in the NE.
Don
Sub 1 minute-of-angle (MOA) accuracy out to 1,000 yards (910 m) is not unusual in precision-built rifles firing match-grade ammunition.
While I cannot speak for others and their experience, here in the NE (in particular at Williamsport, PA), we don't see very many perfect 1,000 yard F Class scores (the 10 ring is 1MOA, and the X ring is .5MOA). And, it's not for a lack of high quality sticks or excellent shooters. The wind at 200 yards will be blowing one way, and at 800 yards the other way. Your best bet is to get on the first relay in the morning when the wind is at it's calmest. So, based on this environment, I would dispute the statement that it's "not unusual". When everything comes together weather-wise, maybe; but that is usually not the case here in the NE.
Don
Robert Wilson
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Hopefully no one is seriously considering hunting at 1000 yards. Even assuming you can count on a first round hit at such distances (and you can't) time of flight is something like 1.5 to 2 seconds, so there's no guarantee that the animal will be in the same place at impact as it was at launch. And if you do manage to hit the animal "somewhere" he'll be long gone by the time you get to where you hit him.
Can't we just leave this long range business to the target range and the varmint field?
Can't we just leave this long range business to the target range and the varmint field?
i agree with zak and ussr
it's not unusual to get a 3-5 rnd group in between wind changes, especially when you don't have to wait for somebody to pull and mark your target. it IS unusual to get 20 rounds in without wind changes, especially when it takes at least 12 minutes due to pit service.
and in F-class, the deck is stacked against you, since the tighter you hold, the more likely you are to hear, "<static> uhh, pits to line. we got target repair on 17.</static> "
it's not unusual to get a 3-5 rnd group in between wind changes, especially when you don't have to wait for somebody to pull and mark your target. it IS unusual to get 20 rounds in without wind changes, especially when it takes at least 12 minutes due to pit service.
and in F-class, the deck is stacked against you, since the tighter you hold, the more likely you are to hear, "<static> uhh, pits to line. we got target repair on 17.</static> "
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