phantomak47
Member
what is the better round? I would be using it for deer hunting and I was wondering about the new 300wsm round.....I would be shooting it out of a bolt rifle .......
So is it a 300 wm or a 300wsm
So is it a 300 wm or a 300wsm
300 win Mag Or 300 wsm???
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cookhj
Member
i've asked myself the same question. i want a rifle with a little bit more power and range than my .308, and i can't decide if i want the 300WM or 300 WSM.
Grayrock
Member
Maybe someone could post a spec comparison between .30-06, .300 Win Mag, .300WSM , .300 Rem UltraMag and .300 Weatherby Mag.
www.chuckhawks.com
Go to the guns and shooting link and then
go to the rifle cartridge page. This site has some pretty good info on all the popular rifle cartridges and how they compare.
Hope it helps.
Go to the guns and shooting link and then
go to the rifle cartridge page. This site has some pretty good info on all the popular rifle cartridges and how they compare.
Hope it helps.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
The gunrags' comparisons of the WSM and the regular .300 Maggie is that the former is 20% less powder but only 10% less velocity. This means less recoil, among other things, since you're not launching the larger weight of powder along with the bullet.
Shorter action means longer barrel for a given weight. That would do a bit to equalize the comparative muzzle velocities.
One round less magazine capacity, which is relatively unimportant in a hunting rifle.
Figure your probable distances in your deer hunting. If it's under 300 yards, there's little point to any magnum. A .308 or '06 will do just fine. All a magnum does is give you a bit more Whop! at longer distances.
Regardless of bore diameter, these new short magnums look to me to be a handloader's dream. If you already have such as a .243 or 7mm08 or '06, there's little point to adding a Shortie unless you just want a new toy. If you're starting from scratch, I'd say that getting a Shortie AND getting into reloading would be a great way to go.
I will say that the specs on the .223 WSSM are truly impressive, however...
, Art
Shorter action means longer barrel for a given weight. That would do a bit to equalize the comparative muzzle velocities.
One round less magazine capacity, which is relatively unimportant in a hunting rifle.
Figure your probable distances in your deer hunting. If it's under 300 yards, there's little point to any magnum. A .308 or '06 will do just fine. All a magnum does is give you a bit more Whop! at longer distances.
Regardless of bore diameter, these new short magnums look to me to be a handloader's dream. If you already have such as a .243 or 7mm08 or '06, there's little point to adding a Shortie unless you just want a new toy. If you're starting from scratch, I'd say that getting a Shortie AND getting into reloading would be a great way to go.
I will say that the specs on the .223 WSSM are truly impressive, however...
, ArtSteve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not Art, but I think the barrel life on the .223 WSSM is going to be very short. Could call it the .223 WSSBLM
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Just like race cars: Ya wanna go fast, it's gonna cost.
That's why I'm such a strong advocate of handloading for these hotrod shorties. You can always load down, for extended sessions at the range.
If I was a PD shooter and had the .223 WSSM, I'd load down around stock .223 for the critters under 200 or so yards, and reserve the hot stuff for the way-out-yonders.
I've not seen any numbers on expected barrel life, yet. Don't really have a clue, other than a probable sub-2,000.
Art
That's why I'm such a strong advocate of handloading for these hotrod shorties. You can always load down, for extended sessions at the range.
If I was a PD shooter and had the .223 WSSM, I'd load down around stock .223 for the critters under 200 or so yards, and reserve the hot stuff for the way-out-yonders.
I've not seen any numbers on expected barrel life, yet. Don't really have a clue, other than a probable sub-2,000.
Art
Mannlicher
Member
I am wondering how many of these new wonder blasters will be around in 20 years. There are a lot of rounds that just did not sell well enough to stay on the market. The Winchester .284 was the ancestor fo these short, fat cartridges. It was a great round, but try to find one made today. I am sure that many of these new short magnums are not going to have longevity. I have no desire to try one. I am very happy with my current WinMag, my .243.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Mannlicher, I'm in accord with you as far as a New Toy to join the motley herd I now have. But, for somebody who doesn't have a 6mm or whatever, one of these would be a Good Thing. Again, I think that they demand reloading more than do most cartridges.
They'd certainly allow even lighter-weight rifles for the high country, which would help a lot of flatlanders.
It should be interesting to see how it works out insofar as long-range target shooting. In a sense, they're benchrest cartridges on steroids.
, Art
They'd certainly allow even lighter-weight rifles for the high country, which would help a lot of flatlanders.
It should be interesting to see how it works out insofar as long-range target shooting. In a sense, they're benchrest cartridges on steroids.
, ArtSteve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
My personal opinion is that they (specifically the .223 WSM) won't hold up...not because of poor accuracy, but because of barrel life. The average HP competitor will shoot about 2500 rounds a year on each gun.
GooseGestapo
Member
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I would be the first to agree that the .22 and .24 WSSM won't be popular with Hi-Power competitors;
But for the long range varminter and the Southeastern "bean-field" deer hunter, they will be a long term "rage" IF the accuracy promise is delivered.
However, I won't be suprised if some of the Hi-Power comps' don't try a 6.5 version to take advantage of the "short-fat" concept.
But for the long range varminter and the Southeastern "bean-field" deer hunter, they will be a long term "rage" IF the accuracy promise is delivered.
However, I won't be suprised if some of the Hi-Power comps' don't try a 6.5 version to take advantage of the "short-fat" concept.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Well, they basically already are, but have been forming brass with special custom dies. Things might get easier now, and that's a good thing.
As much as varminters shoot, woudn't they avoid a short barrel life just as much?
As much as varminters shoot, woudn't they avoid a short barrel life just as much?
redneck2
Member
Back to topic....
I see you're from Alabama
I suspect that your deer are significantly less than 200#
A .300 WM is fully capable of taking an 800# elk, or for that matter a grizzly or brown bear. I'd say it's WAY over-power for a typical white-tail.
I have a 7 Mag and .300 WM in the safe about 5 feet from me right now. But if I were going on a hunt in Alabama, I'd probably take my 25-06.
Point is...you're gonna put up with a lot of unnecessary noise, recoil, and spoiled meat. If you do decide on a "heavy 30", use a controlled expansion bullet so you don't blow the deer apart (like two of my friends).
IMHO...I'd probably get something in the range of a 25-06 or .270 if it's strictly for deer. They shoot super flat and don't beat you to death, and will take any deer that walks. YMMV. Good luck.
I see you're from Alabama
I suspect that your deer are significantly less than 200#
A .300 WM is fully capable of taking an 800# elk, or for that matter a grizzly or brown bear. I'd say it's WAY over-power for a typical white-tail.
I have a 7 Mag and .300 WM in the safe about 5 feet from me right now. But if I were going on a hunt in Alabama, I'd probably take my 25-06.
Point is...you're gonna put up with a lot of unnecessary noise, recoil, and spoiled meat. If you do decide on a "heavy 30", use a controlled expansion bullet so you don't blow the deer apart (like two of my friends).
IMHO...I'd probably get something in the range of a 25-06 or .270 if it's strictly for deer. They shoot super flat and don't beat you to death, and will take any deer that walks. YMMV. Good luck.
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I have been messing with a .300WSM for about 6 months now. I like the concept. I like the round, good accuracy adequate power basicly identical to the .300Win mag.
I do enjoy the shorter rifle package. If your looking for a rather compact, Light weight, long range mountain gun I think this may well be your Huckleberry. Re stocked and flutted I think mine will be about 7 LBS with scope. If'n I knew what I know know I'd just by a stainless 84M Kimber in 300WSM and be done with it.(for less money)
The Model 70 holds 3 down 1 up.
As far as recoil I can't really tell other thas it's real managable about like a warm loaded .30-06. Is it less than a .300WM? Maybe but not enough to matter.
The rifle tends to be a bit finicky picking up the first round when loaded with three. No likey.
Heres my take on it. If you already have a .300 whatever mag you really don't need a .300WSM. If you have a smokin hot accurate 06 that fits your purposes see the above statement. If'n your needin reach, buy some of them federal high energies and be done with it.
Now if your a hopeless gun geeck who's lookin for the perfect sheep rifle or just a hopeless gun geeck, go get one you won't be dissapointed. And the spousal unit will understand, I'm sure she will...
I do enjoy the shorter rifle package. If your looking for a rather compact, Light weight, long range mountain gun I think this may well be your Huckleberry. Re stocked and flutted I think mine will be about 7 LBS with scope. If'n I knew what I know know I'd just by a stainless 84M Kimber in 300WSM and be done with it.(for less money)
The Model 70 holds 3 down 1 up.
As far as recoil I can't really tell other thas it's real managable about like a warm loaded .30-06. Is it less than a .300WM? Maybe but not enough to matter.
The rifle tends to be a bit finicky picking up the first round when loaded with three. No likey.
Heres my take on it. If you already have a .300 whatever mag you really don't need a .300WSM. If you have a smokin hot accurate 06 that fits your purposes see the above statement. If'n your needin reach, buy some of them federal high energies and be done with it.
Now if your a hopeless gun geeck who's lookin for the perfect sheep rifle or just a hopeless gun geeck, go get one you won't be dissapointed. And the spousal unit will understand, I'm sure she will...
Phanto & all;
Here's my take. I have a perfectly good .30-06. The .308 is interchangeable except for being an ugly red-headed step child of the -06. I could get a .300 something, but why? If I'm going to get a dedicated elk & bigger gun, make mine the .338 Winchester Magnum.
I took my pronghorn last fall at 470 yards with the .30-06, measured with a Bushnell yardage pro 800. Used my reflector to make sure the range was accurate, after the shot of course. I know I can hunt up closer to an elk than that. Moose is normally a short range shot. Hell, more European moose have probably been taken with the 6.5X55 Swede than any two other calibers combined.
But 'cause I want a .338 & would feel just a little more comfortable with it for elk, moose, & bear, that's what I'm gonna get. As far as a .300 magnum, I can't see why I need one.
900F
Here's my take. I have a perfectly good .30-06. The .308 is interchangeable except for being an ugly red-headed step child of the -06. I could get a .300 something, but why? If I'm going to get a dedicated elk & bigger gun, make mine the .338 Winchester Magnum.
I took my pronghorn last fall at 470 yards with the .30-06, measured with a Bushnell yardage pro 800. Used my reflector to make sure the range was accurate, after the shot of course. I know I can hunt up closer to an elk than that. Moose is normally a short range shot. Hell, more European moose have probably been taken with the 6.5X55 Swede than any two other calibers combined.
But 'cause I want a .338 & would feel just a little more comfortable with it for elk, moose, & bear, that's what I'm gonna get. As far as a .300 magnum, I can't see why I need one.
900F
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
I don't know...I keep scratching my pointy longeared head over this one. At what point do you get over-case capacity for the bore and just start blowing powder out the end because of the physics of the size of the piston the combustion/pressure front is pushing is too small to be efficient?
(EDITED at this point to get back on track to the original question...sorry)
I suppose if you have a need for .300 WM performance in a rapid-fire situation, then I'd look long and hard at the .300 WSM in an AR10. As far as any bolt action, then if you need a short action mountain rifle or carbine like a Browning Micro or a Remington Model 7, then you get to punish your deltoids to your hearts' content. Sorbothane recoil pads are much less expensive than rotator cuff surgery. Marketing people exist only to make you buy something that's 'new'. You have to decide for yourself if it's really 'better'.
(end of tracks; now I'm back to the derailment)
I mean, it all sounds great, but really, how fast can you fully combust a powder charge of roughly 58 grains in an overbore cartrige against a .224 diameter piston yet expect NOT to see flame cutting of the throat and leades (see 'Ruger Blackhawk', Dan Wesson' and '.357 Maximum'). One of the most anecdotally reported problems with the .220 Swift and the .264 Winchester Magnum were barrel erosion and reduced barrel life.
Spiffy, fast burning powders are great if you have enough surface to act against in the amount of time the 'piston' (bullet) is in the barrel, but I think, for my money, it's so much hot air for the cost vs. lifespan of the firearm. I think the mini-magnums are going to end up being a footnote, especially if the companies persist in loading them up to maximum velocities. In throttled-back loadings, they very well could end up being significant new target loads, but as far as thunderbolt-hammer-of-the-gods-reach-out-and-smite-them ultimate hunting loads, I'm not a believer yet.
Besides, in Texas, the minimum caliber for deer hunting is .23 caliber. Can't use the .223 WSSM for deer here, anyway. Winchester states that the ".223 WSSM 64 gr. Super-X Power-Point is for antelope, deer, and black bear".
Sorry, not in my back yard.
http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/ref_data/ballistics_223.pdf
Regards,
Rabbit.
...who likes 30-06, 6.5x55 and regular .223 just fine, thanks.
(EDITED at this point to get back on track to the original question...sorry)
I suppose if you have a need for .300 WM performance in a rapid-fire situation, then I'd look long and hard at the .300 WSM in an AR10. As far as any bolt action, then if you need a short action mountain rifle or carbine like a Browning Micro or a Remington Model 7, then you get to punish your deltoids to your hearts' content. Sorbothane recoil pads are much less expensive than rotator cuff surgery. Marketing people exist only to make you buy something that's 'new'. You have to decide for yourself if it's really 'better'.
(end of tracks; now I'm back to the derailment)
I mean, it all sounds great, but really, how fast can you fully combust a powder charge of roughly 58 grains in an overbore cartrige against a .224 diameter piston yet expect NOT to see flame cutting of the throat and leades (see 'Ruger Blackhawk', Dan Wesson' and '.357 Maximum'). One of the most anecdotally reported problems with the .220 Swift and the .264 Winchester Magnum were barrel erosion and reduced barrel life.
Spiffy, fast burning powders are great if you have enough surface to act against in the amount of time the 'piston' (bullet) is in the barrel, but I think, for my money, it's so much hot air for the cost vs. lifespan of the firearm. I think the mini-magnums are going to end up being a footnote, especially if the companies persist in loading them up to maximum velocities. In throttled-back loadings, they very well could end up being significant new target loads, but as far as thunderbolt-hammer-of-the-gods-reach-out-and-smite-them ultimate hunting loads, I'm not a believer yet.
Besides, in Texas, the minimum caliber for deer hunting is .23 caliber. Can't use the .223 WSSM for deer here, anyway. Winchester states that the ".223 WSSM 64 gr. Super-X Power-Point is for antelope, deer, and black bear".
Sorry, not in my back yard.
http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/ref_data/ballistics_223.pdf
Regards,
Rabbit.
...who likes 30-06, 6.5x55 and regular .223 just fine, thanks.
Grayrock
Member
Brer Rabbit- I just checked the 2002-2003 Texas Parks and Wildlife Outdoor Annual and the only mention of legal bullets is on page 65. It says,
"Game animals and game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, EXCEPT:
- white-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, and pronghorn antelope may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber."
This indicates to me that I can use my Mini-14 on deer (but WHY would I do that- just because I can, doesn't mean I should!). But I can not use the .17HMR or a .41 cal rimfire. It just implies it must be a centerfire cartridge. So blast away with the .223 WSSM!
"Game animals and game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, EXCEPT:
- white-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, and pronghorn antelope may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber."
This indicates to me that I can use my Mini-14 on deer (but WHY would I do that- just because I can, doesn't mean I should!). But I can not use the .17HMR or a .41 cal rimfire. It just implies it must be a centerfire cartridge. So blast away with the .223 WSSM!
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Thanks for the addenda, Grayrock. I'm showing my age and lack of check-in time with TDP&W. I guess the last time I paid that strict attention to the rules was years ago when all I had access to that particular time was a .223 and a single-shot 12 gauge. Needless to say, it was quite awhile back as obviously they have liberalized the rules since then. Thanks for the heads up.
I'll stick with a 6.5x55 for these German Shepherd sized deer out on my place, thanks.
Regards,
Rabbit.
I'll stick with a 6.5x55 for these German Shepherd sized deer out on my place, thanks.Regards,
Rabbit.
Grayrock
Member
WOW- your deer are THAT big up there? I'm headin' north! My lil oat munchers are lap deer.
Lennyjoe
Member
I am another one in the market for another rifle for deer, bear and possibly elk if I get lucky in the drawing this year.
I also am looking hard at the .300 win mag as well.
The ultra mag and short mag .300 has raised my curiousity too.
I am a long time deer hunter with a 30-30 and this will be my first real high energy rifle.
Would rather hunt with a bow but want to get back to rifle hunting now.
Dont ask me why, just feel the need.
So Im keeping an eye open for any suggestions.
I also am looking hard at the .300 win mag as well.
The ultra mag and short mag .300 has raised my curiousity too.
I am a long time deer hunter with a 30-30 and this will be my first real high energy rifle.
Would rather hunt with a bow but want to get back to rifle hunting now.
Dont ask me why, just feel the need.
So Im keeping an eye open for any suggestions.
Badger Arms
Member
30-06 -- Good enough
300 Win Mag -- Big, but still good
300 WSM -- See above (I don't see as how a shorter case matters much in this case)
300 Weatherby Magnum -- Bigger, better
300 Ultra Mag -- Too big, but still useful
There are just too darned many 30 magnums out there with similar performance. I shoot the 300 Win Mag and I like it. I don't see any reason to switch. Can somebody justify how 18% is going to matter all that much? Getting all worked up over 200 or 300 fps belies the fact that most people aren't shooting at game that cares much whether you kill it dead or deader. These are the same people that can't hit anything humanely at the ranges capable with the likes of the 300 Dakota and 300 Ultra Magnum cartridges.
For deer, the 30-06 is plenty powerful out to about 1000 yards. The advantage you'll have with either the 300 wsm or Win Mag is that it will shoot slightly flatter and range estimation out beyond 300 yards will be SLIGHTLY less critical. Consider how many shots you intend to take at that range and reconsider what you are buying. Also consider cost of the ammo and the fatigue you'll feel after a box or two of the magnums.
300 Win Mag -- Big, but still good
300 WSM -- See above (I don't see as how a shorter case matters much in this case)
300 Weatherby Magnum -- Bigger, better
300 Ultra Mag -- Too big, but still useful
There are just too darned many 30 magnums out there with similar performance. I shoot the 300 Win Mag and I like it. I don't see any reason to switch. Can somebody justify how 18% is going to matter all that much? Getting all worked up over 200 or 300 fps belies the fact that most people aren't shooting at game that cares much whether you kill it dead or deader. These are the same people that can't hit anything humanely at the ranges capable with the likes of the 300 Dakota and 300 Ultra Magnum cartridges.
For deer, the 30-06 is plenty powerful out to about 1000 yards. The advantage you'll have with either the 300 wsm or Win Mag is that it will shoot slightly flatter and range estimation out beyond 300 yards will be SLIGHTLY less critical. Consider how many shots you intend to take at that range and reconsider what you are buying. Also consider cost of the ammo and the fatigue you'll feel after a box or two of the magnums.
Lennyjoe
Member
Thats why Im concidering the .300 win mag for hunting in Arizona.
The terrain is wide open in the southern part of the state and if I get drawn for Elk up in the mountain areas north of me I want a hard enough hitter.
I know its gonna be a little strong for deer out there but the longer range and flatter shooting is what I want.
I know folks say the 06 or even a .308 is enough for elk if you put it on target but Im partial to the .300 for some reason. My brother owns one and I have shot it alot.
The terrain is wide open in the southern part of the state and if I get drawn for Elk up in the mountain areas north of me I want a hard enough hitter.
I know its gonna be a little strong for deer out there but the longer range and flatter shooting is what I want.
I know folks say the 06 or even a .308 is enough for elk if you put it on target but Im partial to the .300 for some reason. My brother owns one and I have shot it alot.
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