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3006 or 7mm

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by appalachian hunter, Jun 20, 2013.

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  1. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Reloading the '06 for critters? Well, an 00 Buck and five grains of pistol powder makes a great squirrel load. A .32-20 bullet of 80 grains ahead of a whole bunch of 3031 makes a ruinacious load for disassembling jackrabbits. Learned all that in 1950.

    I hate recoil.

    :D:D:D
     
  2. Texaszach

    Texaszach Member

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    Hey MC are you having fun yet? Haha
     
  3. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
    great harley quote
     
  4. guntha45

    guntha45 Member

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    30/06 bolt gun

    I'd go with the 30/06 bolt gun. Effective on any North American game. Easier to find ammo in a better variety, easier to shoot (muzzle blast/recoil), cheaper and more components if reloading. If I could have only 1 rifle it would be a 30/06, glad I can have many more than one! God bless America!
     
  5. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Yup. :D It's interesting that some folks think the .30-06 is SO much more effective than the 7 mag which is superior in every way except it wasn't on the beaches of Iwo Jima. :rolleyes: Is this a case of patriotism blinding reality?

    Big bears, Moose? If I wanted to hunt those critters I'd either rebarrel my 7 to .338 or buy another rifle.

    For what I hunt, 7mm Rem Mag is a bit much. That's why I haven't taken it hunting in 20 years. The .308, basically equal to the .30-06 with the 150 grain BTs I shoot in it, does quite well on hogs and deer. The 7 is a meat tearer upper at close range, works fine out 200 yards and beyond. I could live with a thuddy ought six, but I have a .308 I like a lot and don't need the old geezer. :D Actually, I could probably get by with just my .257 anymore, but I do like that little M7 Remington. And, .308 is another round that'll kill anything the ought six will kill just as dead and it does it in a lighter, handier rifle. Oh, yeah, and the recoil is less. :neener:
     
  6. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Trash talking my 06 again? LOL 308 vs 30-06 my answer is to own both, 308 for 150gr and below and 30-06 for 165gr or heavier. I don't hunt in elk country but I would take a 220gr 30 caliber Partition over any 7mm bullet on large tough game, not saying there is a huge difference or that the 30 cal is the ideal bore for that but that is the way I see it.
     
  7. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Ah, don't really care one way nor the tuther, they all do the job. This originally was about the OP's choice between 7 mag and .30-06. I know there's going to be a ton ".30-06, is there really anything else?" posts, so somebody has to point out the ballistic superiority of the big 7, right? :D I just can't let the consensus go unchallenged, especially when over half the posts point out the trait of "being available everywhere" as a big advantage. :D I mean, ain't like I can't find 7 mag on the shelves, it's everywhere even in Texas where there is no elk hunting.
     
  8. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

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    Just buy one or the other, learn to shoot it well, the animals won't know the difference.
     
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Too true MC, I used nothing but the 7mm Rem Mag for over a decade and never once had trouble finding ammo. It does cost a bit more then 30-06 but you can sure find it anywhere. The big 7 sure does have some "ballistic superiority" over the 30-06 but the only place that is even noticeable is for most of us well outside our normal hunting range, for those of us who handload the difference even at extended ranges might not be as large as you might think though, Don has a 190gr SMK 30-06 load moving 2,900fps with a stout load of slow burning RL22, if I can hit that with those new 190gr Accubond LRs (.640BC) that would give most magnums a run for their money even in a stiff crosswind.
     
  10. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    That would be incorrect, especially regarding several of the 7mm offered by Browning in both lever and semi versions

    The BLR is available in 7-08, 7mm Rem mag, and 7mm WSM

    The BAR is available in 7-08, 7mm Rem mag, and 7mm WSM

    Personally I like the 7mm mag with a Sierra 160 or Nosler 160 Partition
     
  11. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    My bud has a BAR in .300 win mag. For the recoil shy, this gun is a gas gun and it's heavy as hell. It kicks less than my .308. The 7 would even be easier on the shoulder. And, the thing is MOA accurate with the right load. He also has a BLR in .308, shorter action version than the ones offered in 7 mag and a REAL handy gun. I like that thing a lot, too. :D
     
  12. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    The choice is relatively simple for me between the two. 270 Win.... okay, back to the topic. For typical Appalachain deer and bear hunting, I'd go 30-06. If you have aspirations of hunting mule deer or perhaps elk out west, then I would go with the 7mm Rem Mag. due to its slightly better ballistics. I believe it kicks a bit harder too.
     
  13. The_Armed_Therapist

    The_Armed_Therapist Member

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    The only benefit of the 7mm mag over the .30-06 is a slightly flatter trajectory. I imagine this is irrelevant since you're in Appalachia. As mentioned, the .30-06 can come in all shapes and sizes depending on your need. The only time I'd prefer a 7mm mag over a .30-06 is if I lived in the desert, and I already owned a .30-06. ;) Seriously, though, they're both great. The .30-06 just seems to make a little more sense.
     
  14. Robert101

    Robert101 Member

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    Choice between 7MM Rem Mag and 30-06? Neither one. My do almost all rifle caliber is the 308 Winchester. Now when I need more down range hitting power and flatter trajectory I lug the longer barrel 300 Mag. That is it in a nutshell. I started scaling back my choices of all the varied calibers, bullets, brass and powders to my fundamental 4 and primarily stay in the 30 caliber range except for .223 for varmits. Don't get me wrong, I think both 7MM Mag and 30-06 are fantastic cartridges I just got tired of the choices........ I was confused and now I have clarity.
     
  15. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    If you go to http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html, and enter the following data respectively, you will see that the two choices, are within 1 inch, and 50 fps of each other from the muzzle to 500 yards, when zeroed at 300 yards.

    .30-06 Sprg: 165 gr loaded to 3,100 fps
    7mm Rem Mag: 150 gr loaded to 3100 fps

    Save yourself the agony of deciding. Flip a coin and enjoy the cartridge. :D

    Geno
     
  16. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    That'd be great if you slowed down the 150 grain 7 from it's potential and sped the .30-06 up to encroach on .300 mag velocities by going over SAAMI standard pressure limits. :rolleyes: Never try to make a .357 magnum out of a .38 by handloading. Just buy the real deal.
     
  17. Geno
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    Geno Member

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  18. kimbernut
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    kimbernut Member

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    .30-06 Browning X-bolt

    Would be my choice with a Nikon Monarch scope up top.
     
  19. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    You've chronoed this load? Very optimistic. My best 7 load, attenuated in the interest of accuracy and using RL22, shoots a 150 Game king out at 3200 fps and the gun is capable of 3300 with that bullet. Most ONE FIFTY grain .30-06 loads are below 3000 fps, though some factory stuff like Hornady's "light magnum" will push faster. They use a process, a drop tube thing, that's hard to duplicate and load REAL slow powder for the 06. A 165 at 3100 is a bit over the top, though. I might accept it possible for the light magnum Hornady load, but I'd wanna read the chronograph before I believed it. :D

    I haven't worked with the .30-06, but it's not a magnum and I've seen a lot of test data on it over the years iin articles the writers of which used Ohlers for their numbers, not reloading data from a manufacturer.

    A caveat, barrel length does make a difference. My 7 is a 24" tube, many are 26. Most 06's now days are 22". A longer tube will boost velocities. Remington could have been using a 26", even a 30" test barrel for those velocities. I'd come closer to believing them from a 26" or longer tube.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  20. Geno
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    Geno Member

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    Yes, I chrono'ed my load, in my Wea Mark V, 26" barreled rifle. My rifle never hit the 3,150. I believe my max achieved was 3,110 fps. Art knows of this load too.

    Re the 7 Mag, that is an impressive load! I never hand loaded for my former 7 Mag. I always shot factory Fed Premium 150s.

    Geno
     
  21. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Geno, my old Speer #11 manual lists a max charge of 58.0 grains of 4350 and a 165 grain bullet moving at 2865 fps. It was shot from a 22" barrel Remington M700 with a 1:10 twist.

    The manual doesn't list a 150 grain bullet in 7 mag, but a 160 with 80 grains of H870 shoots 3009 fps in the book fired from a 24" barrel Remington 700. RL 22 works much better in the big magnum, gave me 150 fps over what I got with H4831 using a 150 game king and would likely give a 160 grain bullet another 100 fps anyway over the Speer number. RL22 wasn't around when the Speer number 11 was printed. There may be a better powder than IMR 4350 for the .30-06, too, however. But, the big magnum requires slower powders. RL22 hit the sweet spot in my gun. :D I tried a LOT of loads in the thing when I got it. It's a Savage, cheap gun, kinda picky about what it likes. The RL22/150 game king shot MOA, though, my goal. Nosler 160 partitions shoot great in this gun, too.
     
  22. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    26" barrel answers questions. :D We're doing some apple an orange comparisons, methinks. Barrel length is important, especially with the slower powders the magnums like. I kinda wish I was working with a 26" tube. Weatherby likes 26" tubes. :D
     
  23. shootr

    shootr Member

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    After years of ignoring 06 for trendier "designer" loads, the last 5 -10 years I've been shedding things I don't really need, but kept my 06s and find myself shooting 06 most of all. Does everything I need and then some. BAR is a deer-killing machine and an old FN 98 is scary accurate with everything.

    Were I looking for a new 06 today, think I'd find a nice, gently-used Rem 700, or a new Winnie Featherweight. Doesn't get much better!
     
  24. Geno
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    Geno Member

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    Very true regarding barrel length. One would not likely get 3,100ish fps out of any 22" barrel. It would be pushing it probably even at a 24" barrel. I believe that the load (charge) I used was 62 grains of IMR 4350, and I used Fed 210 BR primers. I usually used Federal brass. Sometimes Remington. What I see in the reloading manuals usually restricts the 06's maximum due to autoloaders that would not endure the abuse like a bolt rifle can. Regardless, that still is a very impressive 7mm Mag load.

    Believe it or not, I have been looking at a 7 Mag lately, a new in the box Wea Mark V (24" barrel), 7mm Rem Mag in the Grand Slam package. I didn't buy it a month or so because of not seeing very impressive ballistics. Given the load you have listed definitely sparks my interest. Thanks for the info. Time to revisit that package.

    Thanks to the OP too, great thread! Informative, and gave me a chance to learn something too! :D

    Geno
     
  25. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Yeah, good thread. I think we kicked each other around without causing any pain or suffering. :D

    Geno, since you seem interested, I looked up my print out on it...69.0 grains of RL22, I'd have to go mic the OAL, but I seat the bullet just off the rifling in any rifle I'm working with. Then I make a dummy round for reference that I can set the die with when I load it.

    It gave just shy of 3200 fps, 3192 at the muzzle, energy 3393 ft lbs. In MY gun, the best stat is a 11.41 Standard Deviation for a five shot string. Amazing, very consistent. Now, that's a Sierra Game King 150 grain spitzer boat tail. It's lit by a CCI 250 primer in Remington nickel brass.

    I tried loads using lots of bullets from 140 up and I used several powders. In addition to the RL22, I tried IMR 7828 and H4831 which I had already for my .257 Roberts. The RL22 hands down is my favorite, most consistent, best accuracy, best velocity. As is usual, I was prompted to try it because of a magazine article I'd read on reloading the 7. I worked hard trying to find the right recipe in this Savage, bought a lot of bullets and powder. I think I'd spent less if i'd just bought a Remington 700 in the first place. LOL. The Savage is was hard to please, but persistence paid off. Also, i put a polymer stock on it, Ramline, which helped as it free floated the barrel which needed it. It did string vertically, now it doesn't.
     
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