http://cgi.ebay.com/COLT-AGENT-DETE...ryZ73944QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Aside from possible drug use or dementia, why are those grips $305 dollars?
Aside from possible drug use or dementia, why are those grips $305 dollars?
$305 Colt Detective Special Grips?
- Thread starter strat81
- Start date
- Status
absolute0
Member
25 bids running the price up to $305 on a $20 item.
This one don't smell right does it?
This one don't smell right does it?
jfh
Member.
I checked the link out, and I noted that a "collector" reseller is offering it.
When one is dealing with the "collector" crowd, all bets are off on rational behavior.
Jim H.
When one is dealing with the "collector" crowd, all bets are off on rational behavior.
Jim H.
The bidding is over, so I don't know the past history, but I wonder if someone met to bid $30.05 and it came out $305.00 instead?
The "collector crowd" may in some cases pay more then a shooter would, (I know of an ordinary Colt Python box that went for $306.00) but in this case it seems unlikely.
The "collector crowd" may in some cases pay more then a shooter would, (I know of an ordinary Colt Python box that went for $306.00) but in this case it seems unlikely.
Fuff, according to the bid history, the winner started bidding at $290. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=320258177165
Ya know, if they were Python grips, I'd chalk it up to the Python mystique (hysteria?). But DS grips? My pair have some small chips, maybe I can get $150 for them!
Ya know, if they were Python grips, I'd chalk it up to the Python mystique (hysteria?). But DS grips? My pair have some small chips, maybe I can get $150 for them!
Hawk
Member
Well, it is Ebay - not Auction Arms.
Can't say as too much would surprise me after the 28,000.00 grilled cheese sandwich.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/WolfFiles/story?id=307227&page=1
Python box for 305.00 seems rich but I rationalize my overpaying breathtakingly for one Python due to the ratty box and styrofoam that accompanied it. Actually, it was just me being impatient but the urge to rationalize is strong.
Still, it seems more efficient to buy in bulk - I note Jim Supica is offering a lot of 25 S&W boxes for a mere 2,500.00. I don't have any collector smarts but given as the rest of his prices seem reasonable I'm forced to conclude that 100.00 a piece for blue cardboard boxes with metal corners is the going rate.
I would further conjecture that sooner or later, probably sooner, somebody with a small box/printing operation is going to blast off a pantload of fakes. After all, I'd wager neither S&W nor Colt ever predicted that their boxes would someday be treated as currency and didn't see any call whatsoever to incorporate "anti counterfeit" measures. A couple tens of thousands of artificially aged ratty brown cardboard sleeves with styrofoam would cost about a nickel to produce and should sink the box market in perpetuity. I'll not mourn its passing.
'Course, as nuts as the collector market sometimes seems I probably shouldn't discount the possibiltiy of an entire cottage industry growing up around "packing box and paper consultation and authentication" services. That would be rich.
Can't say as too much would surprise me after the 28,000.00 grilled cheese sandwich.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/WolfFiles/story?id=307227&page=1
Python box for 305.00 seems rich but I rationalize my overpaying breathtakingly for one Python due to the ratty box and styrofoam that accompanied it. Actually, it was just me being impatient but the urge to rationalize is strong.
Still, it seems more efficient to buy in bulk - I note Jim Supica is offering a lot of 25 S&W boxes for a mere 2,500.00. I don't have any collector smarts but given as the rest of his prices seem reasonable I'm forced to conclude that 100.00 a piece for blue cardboard boxes with metal corners is the going rate.
I would further conjecture that sooner or later, probably sooner, somebody with a small box/printing operation is going to blast off a pantload of fakes. After all, I'd wager neither S&W nor Colt ever predicted that their boxes would someday be treated as currency and didn't see any call whatsoever to incorporate "anti counterfeit" measures. A couple tens of thousands of artificially aged ratty brown cardboard sleeves with styrofoam would cost about a nickel to produce and should sink the box market in perpetuity. I'll not mourn its passing.
'Course, as nuts as the collector market sometimes seems I probably shouldn't discount the possibiltiy of an entire cottage industry growing up around "packing box and paper consultation and authentication" services. That would be rich.
Hawk
Member
My unfounded conjecture is that, when it happens, the box is about as likely to be labeled as such as a Python with a non-original 3" barrel is likely to be labeled "FrankenPython with random 3" barrell".
Which is to say, not likely at all. Not like it's not already happened.
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/313d147655ed0bd481fff03548082b2d-58.html
The monetary incentive to fake a complete 3" Python is far greater than faking a box that would bump a firearms sell price by only 150.00 but as soon as that 150.00 becomes a little higher the larcenous entrepreneurs in our midst will surface.
machinecraig
Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2007
- Messages
- 66
I've seen replica cardboard boxes for sale from Smith and Wesson's site...
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...Id=10001&productId=13345&langId=-1&isFirearm=
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...Id=10001&productId=13345&langId=-1&isFirearm=
This Box Business.
Well there is some rational behind high prices on some boxes. Within gun collecting a particular piece is sometimes worth a lot more if it is still in the original box, or a “correct one.” If you have a certain make/model, and you can increase its value by putting it into a correct box, it makes sense to buy the box regardless of cost if the box/gun combination will be increased to more then what the box costs you.
This is especially true, as the handgun in question gets older. During the Civil War for example, Colt and Remington revolvers – as well as others – normally came in a cardboard box with a powder flask and bullet mold. Today such boxes are very rare, and priced accordingly
How about fakes? Well there is a problem today with end labels. Counterfeit blank ones are being sold, which allow someone to change a correct box into what seems to be the original one, and therefore worth more money. Given the amount of money that might be involved, I would observe that correctly marked and identified reproduced boxes might soon crop up in aged condition with the markings obliterated.
What about stocks and grips? Again older revolvers are worth more if they still have what came on them. It used to be that the stocks were individually fitted to each frame, and serial numbered to it. Notice that in the present case you can see a partial serial number written on the inside of the stocks. But that wouldn’t do much to increase the value of another revolver if the number didn’t match the gun, although it wouldn’t take much to make this so. However there is no way that a pair of $300+ stocks – even ones that are correct for the model – are going to make sense if they are put on a gun that at best is selling in the $500 range.
However if the buyer waits long enough, maybe…
Well there is some rational behind high prices on some boxes. Within gun collecting a particular piece is sometimes worth a lot more if it is still in the original box, or a “correct one.” If you have a certain make/model, and you can increase its value by putting it into a correct box, it makes sense to buy the box regardless of cost if the box/gun combination will be increased to more then what the box costs you.
This is especially true, as the handgun in question gets older. During the Civil War for example, Colt and Remington revolvers – as well as others – normally came in a cardboard box with a powder flask and bullet mold. Today such boxes are very rare, and priced accordingly
How about fakes? Well there is a problem today with end labels. Counterfeit blank ones are being sold, which allow someone to change a correct box into what seems to be the original one, and therefore worth more money. Given the amount of money that might be involved, I would observe that correctly marked and identified reproduced boxes might soon crop up in aged condition with the markings obliterated.
What about stocks and grips? Again older revolvers are worth more if they still have what came on them. It used to be that the stocks were individually fitted to each frame, and serial numbered to it. Notice that in the present case you can see a partial serial number written on the inside of the stocks. But that wouldn’t do much to increase the value of another revolver if the number didn’t match the gun, although it wouldn’t take much to make this so. However there is no way that a pair of $300+ stocks – even ones that are correct for the model – are going to make sense if they are put on a gun that at best is selling in the $500 range.
However if the buyer waits long enough, maybe…
Hawk
Member
Yup. Interesting times ahead.
The box and label will eventually be akin to printing money. And a lot easier. And probably not even a federal offense.
Then comes fake half-dissolved cheesy flocked blue plastic, gimme bottle brushes and papers.
It's not just gun collectors - collectors of any stripe leave themselves open to this form of larceny as soon as they start paying very good money for what is essentially (to a non-collector) worn out junk that's relativley easy to duplicate since the original was never intended to have value apart from getting the product to the customer unscratched.
(cap and ball accessories excepted, of course.)
I wonder if 50 years down the road collectors will be paying 500.00 extra for the original plastic case with day-glo orange warning stickers, fired case in little manilla envelope and throw away 10 cent padlock? Or, better yet, the ORIGINAL S&W IL key with $10.00 discount NRA membership coupon?
The box and label will eventually be akin to printing money. And a lot easier. And probably not even a federal offense.
Then comes fake half-dissolved cheesy flocked blue plastic, gimme bottle brushes and papers.
It's not just gun collectors - collectors of any stripe leave themselves open to this form of larceny as soon as they start paying very good money for what is essentially (to a non-collector) worn out junk that's relativley easy to duplicate since the original was never intended to have value apart from getting the product to the customer unscratched.
(cap and ball accessories excepted, of course.)
I wonder if 50 years down the road collectors will be paying 500.00 extra for the original plastic case with day-glo orange warning stickers, fired case in little manilla envelope and throw away 10 cent padlock? Or, better yet, the ORIGINAL S&W IL key with $10.00 discount NRA membership coupon?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
O.K., how bout this?
$55.00 for the grips.
$250 surcharge to bribe eBay to let them sell them on eBay!
rcmodel
$55.00 for the grips.
$250 surcharge to bribe eBay to let them sell them on eBay!
rcmodel
Cougfan2
Member
Barnum was right!
1KPerDay
Member
you guys priced python grips on ebay lately? *eek*
Hawk
Member
<chortle> I can see it now:
bogus 2058 press release said:
:banghead:Joe the Redneck
Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2006
- Messages
- 249
It is a pretty common way of laundering money. I used to see a lot of Russian guys selling $30 cameras for hundreds of dollars. Not a bad scam really.
Hawk
Member
T'ain't so - it's mostly all sick conjecture on my part.
Except for the Grant Cunningham article on 3" Pythons. And whatever's going on we don't know about. And, well, the end labels you spoke of.
The mags always puzzled me. It's not like Colt got outlandish sums for their Metalform stuff. There couldn't be a lot of room between the cost of the bogus mag and what one could clear with Brownell's / Metalform / Colt keeping a lid on the price. When I first saw Tuner's post I thought someone was knocking off the half-blue older mags - those go for silly prices around here for what I presume amounted to a production expedient.
Perhaps they were making it up in volume. There wouldn't be much volume in knocking off "correct" boxes to bump revolver pricing by 150.00 but the per unit incentive is growing daily. It should prove exceptionally easy with Colt as it seems those blue plastic "one size fits all" boxes have been around for a long time - there's nothing that distinguishes my MkIV blue plastic from my Anaconda blue plastic except the chewed-out portion of the foam and the falling-off end sticker.
dfariswheel
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 6,656
Not only are fake boxes and extra end labels being printed, there are cases of fake factory Historical Letters being made up.
The reasons things are counterfeited is because the real item has real value.
One of the most infamous cases of Colt fakery was back in the 1960's.
A west coast man was paying outrageous prices for 1930's Colt Detective Specials in minty condition and within a certain serial number range.
Later it was learned the same man was quietly selling "genuine" Colt "Fitz" revolvers WITH a Colt factory letter listing it as a genuine Fitz gun.
After one buyer damaged his letter, he wrote to Colt to get a replacement.
Colt lettered the gun as a totally standard Detective Special.
After some HOT letters between the buyer and Colt, followed with a discussion with the police, the original seller wound up in State prison for fraud.
He was buying good Colt Detective Special within the Fitz serial number range, doing a truly great job of faking a Fitz gun and printing phony factory letters.
An unknown number of these fakes are still out there.
The reasons things are counterfeited is because the real item has real value.
One of the most infamous cases of Colt fakery was back in the 1960's.
A west coast man was paying outrageous prices for 1930's Colt Detective Specials in minty condition and within a certain serial number range.
Later it was learned the same man was quietly selling "genuine" Colt "Fitz" revolvers WITH a Colt factory letter listing it as a genuine Fitz gun.
After one buyer damaged his letter, he wrote to Colt to get a replacement.
Colt lettered the gun as a totally standard Detective Special.
After some HOT letters between the buyer and Colt, followed with a discussion with the police, the original seller wound up in State prison for fraud.
He was buying good Colt Detective Special within the Fitz serial number range, doing a truly great job of faking a Fitz gun and printing phony factory letters.
An unknown number of these fakes are still out there.
Hawk
Member
Well, rats, Fuff. It's rare that reality can exceed my conjecture but there you (we) go.
Didn't someone once say something along the lines of: "Colt only made 250 3" Pythons. Of these, only 1,500 are left.".
Edited to add: Since I'm in the conjecturing mood, the boxes and end labels would have to be a pretty safe bet - if they actually match the gun, a true factory letter wouldn't expose them as they actually match what the correct box would have been - no fraud involved and probably a bear to even bring civil charges.
Hawk
Member
I had never heard of such until last week and I'm uncertain I understand it yet. It seems to have something to do with a factory authorized removal of the front of the trigger guard.
That's probably an oversimplification.
See the thread on tough looking guns:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=368251
- Status
