.308 ammo and Enfield 2A ?

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Jackal

Jackal

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Hi everybody! I just ordered my first Enfield ever. I got the 2A 7.62x51. My question is whether or not .308 ammo is safe for use or not. I'd sure like to be able to buy my ammo at Wal Mart and not have to order it online. I have heard both opinions on this subject(safe and not safe) and am getting confused. Anyone know for sure?
 
.308 Winchester is NOT the same as 7.62x51 NATO. I suggest that you go to surplusrifles.com and read the articles on this subject. There are several factory loads that "should" be safe with the Ishy, but you will probably not find them at Wally World.

I have a 2A1, and I shoot surplus 7.62 and also handload light plinking loads, but I won't shoot full tilt .308.
 
but i was wondering if it was really that important.
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Commercial .308 ammo is "hotter" than 7.62 surplus. The Ishy is an old rifle. What's your risk tolerance?
 
I used both in mine with no problems. I also use both in my FR-8's, and have never had any issues.

I did have issues with the .308/7.62x51 in my Isshy though. Ejection was always iffy with my rifle, even after trying a couple of different ejector screws and extractors. Never did get it right. These rifles were made for a round with a rim, and I always wondered if that wasnt the real problem.

Feeding was also a problem due to the mag that came with it. It sat to low for the rounds to reliably strip off the follower. Once I found a new made mag, that problem went away. Gun Parts has them if you need one, they run around $40.
 
Hot is relative

Commercial .308 can be hotter, or not as hot, as the Nato ammo. It depends on who made it and what specs they were using. I would think that most of the off the shelf .308 is less powerful than the military stuff, not more.

There was a long standing question about this in regard to the Spanish M1916, a converted small ring Mauser that was converted to the Nato round from a 7mm on the Milsurp sites for years. Now that's a rifle I would worry more about.

The 2A and 2A1 were purpose built for the Nato round. They weren't converted .303 rifles, unlike the Spanish Mausers. The receiver... supposed to be....of a different steel spec. The extractor, for the rimless cartridge, is different from the .303 as well.
 
I've seen stretched receivers on 2A's and A1's, more than a few when I was processing import rifles for a business friend of mine. The 2A action (or No1 action as that's all it is really) is at the limits of its strength pushing the 7.62 NATO, I would NOT fool around just because someone thinks you can get away with it. It was not designed to fire Com. 308.

What's your skull worth?
 
Really?

I've seen stretched receivers on 2A's and A1's, more than a few
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Can you document this? Any photos? Really, I'd be interested. I have my opinions and I would like to see some proof of this assertion. And...if they were stretched, do you know what they were shooting to make them stretch?

In the 1916 Spanish Mauser the probable cause of using too powerful a load in a ...probably overloaded hand load .308... would be bolt lockup. Seen any of this in the 2A or 2A1?
 
Commercial .308 is for the most part more powerful. Often loaded to the full 62,000 psi of the SAMMI spec. 7.62x51 NATO is always loaded to 50,000 PSI or less. My understanding has been that even the 50,000 PSI is pushing it for these rifles. I would look for low-recoil .308 load to shoot out of these rifles. I think Federal makes some for sure.
 
Niner said:
swingset said:
I've seen stretched receivers on 2A's and A1's, more than a few
Click to expand...

Can you document this? Any photos? Really, I'd be interested. I have my opinions and I would like to see some proof of this assertion. And...if they were stretched, do you know what they were shooting to make them stretch?
Click to expand...

Seconded. No one has been able to supply hard evidence that the Ishys have suffered any kinds of failures, aside from a few quasi-anecdotes involving high pressure handloads. A claim has been made that the steel used was the same as that in the SMLE, but no documentation of the tests has been forthcoming, nor has any rationale as to why the Ishy rifles last with Nato ammo and British rifles fail.
 
Can you document this? Any photos? Really, I'd be interested. I have my opinions and I would like to see some proof of this assertion. And...if they were stretched, do you know what they were shooting to make them stretch?
Click to expand...

It's been nearly 10 years since I worked for him, but I believe he kept a couple of the receivers that were bad. I'll do my best to see if there are any left that I could get pics of. IIRC, there were 3 or 4 with grossly excessive headspace (this I term "stretching". I know 2 went back to IO, who IIRC was the importer. I believe 1 at least was kept behind as I remember this being shown to someone.

As for what made them stretch? What else would do it? The Punjabs didn't use the receivers as comealongs to pull equipment with. But, they did use these rifles hard as cadet guns and were often shooting ammunition of nefarious origins or overloaded MG ammo.

I bought, and sent back, a 2A1 from CAI years ago that was hairline cracked near the knox form, and the bolt was sticky going into battery. What does that? Overpressure or bad metalurgy. Take your pic. Either way, it's not up for debate, the 2A action is not designed for .308 pressures and pushing it is damned foolish. Why even risk it? It's not like surp .308 is prohibitively expensive. You're talking about 10,000psi increases possible. That's nothing to take lightly.

I know far more about Brit Enfield production than later Ishapore workings (just try to find some good historical documentation of their production), but I know what I've seen and based on that, I would be hesitant to believe that the 2A/2A1 action is to be trusted with all grades of commercial .308.

I don't know of any catastrophic failures of the 2A, and that speaks well for the action but I'm still always going to air on the side of safety. There's simply no reason to mess around with a controlled explosion that's right beside your head, IMHO.
 
This is interesting info to me. I "Bubbaized" a real bad off Ishy several years back, did a lot of research on the Ishy board with the internet experts, and came to the conclusion that the Ishy was overbuilt for even the NATO ammo and that commercial hunting ammo would be no problem. I've put probably 100 rds thru this one with no problems so far. But I will admit, I don't use it now, but that's because it is just too damned long to fit in the hunting stand. I keep bumping the barrel on the roof of our stands when I try to move it around :rolleyes:
I've replaced it with a Marlin .30-30. Know anyone that wants to buy the "Bubba"?
BTW, that's a blued finish, not the paint over bare steel they come with from Ishy.

enfieldside.gif

enfield1.jpg
 
I don't have much faith in it, but it doesn't appear to have moved. My bad grouping is more me than the mount :rolleyes: Everytime I take it to the benchrest, my groupings were good.
 
Scared huh?

Ok, so you have nothing to worry about. my ishy has handled commercial .308 for a long time. I usually try to get 120 grain for it but have shot 150 and even gone as high as 180 grains through my '66 2a1. I check head space. Ive never had a problem. I guess if you doubt your guns ability to shoot those rounds then dont do it. Maybe my ishy is just special:rolleyes:
 
Again the common idea is that weapons chambered in 7.62 nato won't handle civilian .308. Well the ammo spec's lower not the weapons. Weapons designed to chamber 7.62 must meet much higher pressures than Any civilian .308 ammo will dish out.
A weapon in 7.62 NATO Must accept the pressures of civilian .308 for one simple reason a soldier needs to be capable of scavannging ammo if the supply cannot keep up.
I have shot .308 out of my Ishapore Enfield to no ill effects whatsoever.
Point of fact the Venezuealan 7.62 NATO the FFL included with the gun, won't eject properly due the the neck and shoulder being out of spec.
PS Why did my DI tell me if I run out of ammo to Scavange .308? Are DI's suddenly Training Soldiers to risk injury and Death? Have they ever Trained a soldier to take these risks. NO!! Not Now, Not EVER. Yes Soldiering is risky and can kill you but DI's do not train the troops to commit suicide.
 
Ok, who resurected my old thread???:p Let this one die people, I have since shot 200rds of Federal .308 through my Ishy with no ill effects.
 
Winchester Ammunition 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Winchester)

Winchester Ammunition 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Winchester)

Is this wrong? is it 7.62x51 NATO or 308 Winchester? I believe it is a true NATO round.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=366288

"MidwayUSA is pleased to offer this military production overrun ammunition. Available for a limited time only, this NATO spec ammunition features a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps. This is a copper-clad steel jacket bullet with a lead core in boxer-primed, reloadable brass. Makes a great practice round. Manufactured by Winchester and packaged in Winchester boxes. Made in the USA"
 
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