308 battle rifle for near and far?m1a?DPMS?POF?

[RAINS]

In doing research over the years I always end up reading threads from THR forums so I finally became a member!
Anyway I don't have a long range/battle .308. Not really looking for a SHTF rifle as that's why I own an AK. This will be for long range and for CQB penetration. I live in a rural area and hike a lot. Really having a hard time deciding on a semi .308. I'm looking at 3 rifles. 16 or 18' M1a, DI or piston AR-10 type gun. These are the factors I am dealing with.

Wants are
1. Easily 600yard capable
2. 16' or 18' short barrel with folding/collapsible stock. as it will get carried around in the bush and I like short stocks.
3. Solid optics mount with Iron options

I'd like to grab a DPMS LR-308 and be done with it for around 1k but yeah I really don't like the DI gas system. To get a m1a scout or socom outfitted with a nice stock/mount/flash hider will cost big bucks 2k+and end up being rather complex. On the other hand I could just buy a 2.5k pof 308 and have everything. Really is the DPMS Di system life saving reliable? I will be picking up this rifle up for use in high risk areas. Any thoughts or opinions would be very helpful. Thanks! R

 

[Zerodefect]

LMT 308.
Larue LT104 scope mount. (the best AR mount out there IME)
Nightforce scope.
Troy Flip up Irons
Magpul XTM covers
Magpul RSA


You can do something similar for less $. But the above is a good example. DI rules for semiauto accuracy. Especially when you consider you aren't going to shoot enough .308 ammo to really make a difference between piston or DI. Unless your rich or something, and really plan on killing 1000round cases of ammo each range trip and not clean anything for a month or two.

The LMT DI system is combat reliable. The British troops use them. I'm sure our troops will start getting them as our M1 Socom things and M14's wear out in Afganistan. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw pics of our tro0ps shooting M14's with irons in the Afgan mountains. Got to go with what works right?



LMT .308:

 

[boricua9mm]

I'm sure our troops will start getting them as our M1 Socom things and M14's wear out in Afganistan. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw pics of our tro0ps shooting M14's with irons in the Afgan mountains. Got to go with what works right?

Unless they're in the hands of some Private Military Contractor, there aren't any M1A SOCOMs seeing action in Afghanistan. There was a rumor that a Smith Enterprise 16" barrel was being tested and possibly fielded, but I've never seen anything to verify the use of a 16" barreled M14 type weapon in the sandbox.

As for the use of irons, it's definitely not by choice. They dragged old M14s out of mothballs in order to fill the DMR role. What has been reported is that there really isn't enough equipment in the supply chain to mount a scope properly on all of these rifles. There's also reports that they didn't have enough magazines for a reasonable combat loadout.

FWIW, I'm not a solider in the sandbox; this is all info gleaned from my research. I am a huge fan of the M14 and M1A, especially in more modernized trimmings, but standing in the shadow of the more modern designs, their time is coming to pass. I will probably continue to shoot one for the rest of my life based on the history, mystique, complexity, and my appreciation for the system.

In order to meet ALL of the requisites of the original post, I would say that a SCAR 17 with an ACOG would probably be my choice. The M1A is a great rifle, but 16-18" and 600 yard capable with usable iron sights that are readily accessible isn't something the M1A can accommodate; unless of course you throw a ton of money at the problem and outfit it in SAGE garb.

 

[Zerodefect]

Whatever these things are. (I'm an AR guy, all I know about M1's is that every time I try one it breaks):








I think the Larue OBR is a great rifle to add to this conversation as well.

 

[velocette]

Gentlemen;
I've had a DPMS LR 308B for over 5 years. Thousands of rounds downrange. With decent ammo, mostly handloads, no malfunctions, no jams, no problems. Accuracy runs at just under 1" @ 100yds and if I'm feeling really good, even better. Cleaning is easy and no more of a mess or difficulty than any of my bolt action rifles or my Garand.
DI gas system is fine. It works for GI M4s with hundreds of rounds per day and more.
If you run hundreds of rounds through your 308 autoloading rifle per day, you must have someone else paying for your ammo.

Roger

 

[RAINS]

I have heard that LMT makes a great 308 ar. Heard they are going to make a piston one soon. Might look into buying a 308 lower then and put one together myself as a winter project. I looked at the scar but I find them to be like all of FN's stuff a bit over priced.
A few socom 16's were used by contractors i heard. You think iron sighted m14's are bad in the Sandbox. My uncle is ex-mil and was sending dozens of care packages to Afghanistan. Soon after he started to get cash from GI's requesting 303 enfield parts and scope mounts. He was really scratching his head until he got on the phone with an old buddy over-there. Turns out M4's would not punch thew thous mud/brick walls. So the GI's were using you guessed it 303 enfields to punch thew. The ammo they were using? Winchester white box from the 1980's. My uncle sent out boxes of every part that wears out on thous old 303s along with a bunch of scopes/mounts. What the hell is wrong with us? Every squad needs a .308.
Oh one more though. If I were to pick up a 308 lower who makes a good one?

 

[RyeDaddy]

I was in this same quandry this year as was saving my money for a .308 battle/target/hunting rifle. I wanted something with a 16 to 18" barrel that had 1 MOA accuracy in semi-auto. Originally I was dead set on an M1A Scout Squad as it seemed to fit the bill perfectly, and I wasn't crazy about the DI system on AR10's. Not because I think DI systems are unreliable, THEY'RE NOT. Just because I wanted to get a suppressor for target shooting and hog hunting at night and didn't want to deal with the extra fouling of a suppressed AR. I already knew it was a pain to scope an M1A, as I'd owned one before, but I was familiar with the system, and knew with some work (maybe a lot of work) it could get to MOA accuracy, or very close. At this point I had never fired an AR10.

I talked it over with a friend who did 2 combat tours in Iraq as his squad's designated marksman. He said that his first tour he was issued the M14, which worked fine, but that it was not great with optics and it made him a target for the enemy, because it was obvious he was carrying a different weapon than his compadres. His second tour he had an AR10 variant and he said between the two he would pick the M110 10 times out of 10 over the M14. He gave a huge list of reasons: better ergonomics, MUCH better accuracy, easier to clean as you could do it from the breech end and it didn't require grease. He also stated what was already obvious, that the AR type rifles are MUCH easier to mount optics on and still get use of the irons if you need them. It was a lengthy conversation, but those are the most relevant points.

Hearing it from someone who's used both in adverse conditions in combat really swayed me. So I looked into the POF*USA P-308's and fell in love with them. I really wanted an 18" barrel, but they don't offer them. I went with the 16.5" one when I finally found one with the new HSR rail. It was such a steal I couldn't pass it up, I wouldn't have anyway as it was the only one I could find. My rifle had 40 rounds through it when I got it, still looked brand spankin' new without a scratch on it anywhere.

I am so happy with my choice that I can't state it enough. I've owned an M1A Loaded in the past and I liked it, but I LOVE the P-308. I'm just starting load development with it and have only tried the 155 AMAX. Groups were in the .75" range with all loads so far, and that was with a mil-spec 5.5lb. standard AR trigger that the guy I bought it from had installed for whatever reason. I've since installed a Geissele, which the new ones come with and it is a fantastic trigger. So much so that I'm going to start load workups over again, I think the trigger will bring group sizes down, good triggers have in all my rifles in the past.

The ergonomics of the AR pattern 308's wins hands down for me over my old M1A and everything else I was told was true. It's way easier to clean, and the barrrel of the POF cleans up easier than conventionally rifled barrels due to it's lapped Rock Creek barrel and it's 5R rifling pattern. The gas piston system is all hard chromed or NP3 coated, so there's not a bunch of scrubbing to do. POF also has excellent customer service by all accounts of people who've used it, but I haven't needed to. I've got a little over 300 rounds through mine now plinking around with it and haven't had a hiccup.

The DPMS rifles are great too, and get good accuracy reports from people. They also use the same inexpensive, easy to find Magpul P-Mags that the POF does. If budget factors in I would say that the DPMS would be a great bet, it's the cheapest of the 3.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I've shot all of those, and currently own a DPMS 308 and an M1A. The DI gas system has a major benefit in softness of recoil with the .308 cartridge, even compared to an FAL with its gas regulator set just right.

The DPMS .308 is a quality rifle and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for hunting, but I probably would hesitate to view it as a critical defensive rifle. No particular reason, just general hesitation about DPMS. The only readily available .308 semiautos that I would consider fully up to defensive use are the LMT MWS, KAC SR-25 (with slight reservations based on durability reports out of Afghanistan), and the DSA SA-58 FAL (the all-new, all-US-made FAL). Of those the LMT would be my first choice by far if price isn't an issue, and even the cheapest of the three, the DSA, is over $1500.

The LMT MWS is just an incredible rifle, with everything good about the AR platform and most of the drawbacks removed. Supposed dirtiness of DI is a non-issue, and the soft felt recoil is a major plus. Many of the AR designs are also very accurate, including the LMT and most of the DPMS .308s.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I am old school, for me my M1As, standard or scout squad and even my trusty mini 14s will do, dont need to spend a whole lot extra money when I already have proven weapons,

 

[ugaarguy]

Whatever these things are.

Those are M14s (possibly a variant like the M21 or M25) in Sage EBR stocks.

The LMT DI system is combat reliable. The British troops use them. I'm sure our troops will start getting them as our M1 Socom things and M14's wear out in Afganistan

Considering the US Army just adopted an upgraded KAC SR-25 as the M110, I think that's what our troops will be getting (the few that get 7.62 NATO / .308 Win rifle). The concept (something AR based to replace the M14 on the US DOD side / replace the L1A on the UK MOD side) is the same though, so you're dead on in concept.

Also, IIRC, US SOCOM dropped the 5.56 NATO FN SCAR-L because it didn't perform significantly better than the M4 for the increased price. They kept the 7.62 NATO SCAR-H because of various issues with the M14.

 

[Jason_G]

Whatever these things are. (I'm an AR guy, all I know about M1's is that every time I try one it breaks):

Those are basically just accurized M14s in Sage EBR chassis. Although I am confused by the cow picture

In doing research over the years I always end up reading threads from THR forums so I finally became a member!
Anyway I don't have a long range/battle .308. Not really looking for a SHTF rifle as that's why I own an AK. This will be for long range and for CQB penetration. I live in a rural area and hike a lot. Really having a hard time deciding on a semi .308. I'm looking at 3 rifles. 16 or 18' M1a, DI or piston AR-10 type gun. These are the factors I am dealing with.

Wants are
1. Easily 600yard capable
2. 16' or 18' short barrel with folding/collapsible stock. as it will get carried around in the bush and I like short stocks.
3. Solid optics mount with Iron options

I'd like to grab a DPMS LR-308 and be done with it for around 1k but yeah I really don't like the DI gas system. To get a m1a scout or socom outfitted with a nice stock/mount/flash hider will cost big bucks 2k+and end up being rather complex. On the other hand I could just buy a 2.5k pof 308 and have everything. Really is the DPMS Di system life saving reliable? I will be picking up this rifle up for use in high risk areas. Any thoughts or opinions would be very helpful. Thanks! R

The M14 is a beast when it comes to a "do it all" rifle. It can be made to shoot MOA, and the irons are good enough to get you out to some ridiculously long distances with some practice and good data.

The drawbacks are that mounting optics is more of a PITA than it is on the AR, and the weight is around 9 lbs or so. Also, no bullets heavier than 175 gr ought to really be fired from it, lest you risk damage to the op rod.

The AR platform is an out of the box accurate platform, and has a lot of benefits in terms of being easy to modify with drop in and bolt on parts. Optics are pretty easy to do.

The drawbacks are that it craps where it eats (DI), and that it's an AR and has no soul Sorry, what I'm saying is that they don't really feel like a rifle to me. I know, it sounds silly, but that's the only way I can explain it.


All in all, I think those would be my two top choices for a .308 utility rifle. If you are dead set on optics, I would probably go AR. If you want irons, the M14 is the winner IMHO.

Jason

 

[Mr.Blue]

I'm looking for a similar rifle chambered in 7.62x51. What about the FNAR? The only serious knock on it is the lack of iron sights.

 

[Z-Michigan]

The FNAR is basically an updated version of the sporting market "BAR" Browning Automatic Rifle (unrelated to the original military BAR with the same name). As a hunting semiauto it's probably quite good, but it has no track record of military-style use and it uses proprietary mags that are very expensive. And it costs as much as a lot of the military-based semiauto .308 rifles. I suppose it all depends what you want to do with it.

I also was not impressed with the stock on the one I handled, and because it's a proprietary sporting rifle there aren't many (any?) aftermarket stock options.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Wants are
1. Easily 600yard capable
2. 16' or 18' short barrel with folding/collapsible stock. as it will get carried around in the bush and I like short stocks.
3. Solid optics mount with Iron options

Looking at your list again, the LMT MWS .308 fits this perfectly, some DSA SA-58 models would fit it reasonably well, the FN SCAR-H fits it reasonably well, and that's about it.

The M1A is a 600+ yard rifle in 22" format, and reasonably in the 18" Scout model, but not in the 16" SOCOM model. And none of those have folding or telescoping stocks. You can get a telescoping stock with an aftermarket "chassis" setup but you are then adding $500+ and several pounds of weight to the rifle. It's a kludge. That's a great rifle for use with irons in 22" and 18" form, and that's (IMHO) it. I say this as an owner of one. There's also the issue that the accurized M1As use glass bedding which limits your maintenance options (how often you can disassemble without losing accuracy) and is just a big hassle all around.

The "para" FAL models have a folding stock, but it's not ideal for cheekweld or accuracy.

The .308 AR-10 style rifles are just far and beyond all older options for mounting scopes easily and solidly. The DSA scope mount for the FAL is probably in second, but it's a distant second. Scope mount options for the M1A, and the as-yet-unmentioned HK91, are even worse.

The FN SCAR-H is about as good as the AR-10 at everything, and also offers a folding and telescoping stock, along with the often sought but rarely needed piston design. Apart from the $3000 price, difficulty of finding one, and $60 unicorn mags, it could be a good option. I got to handle one last weekend; it's nice, it's surprisingly light, and I can't see buying it over an AR style, for now at least.

Did I mention the LMT MWS? (Admittedly a >$2300 rifle, possibly much greater depending where you buy and whether you want the stainless barrel.)

 

[Z-Michigan]

One other option: the Colt SP901 should be arriving in the next 6 months or so, with a rumored retail price around $1900. It will have a 16" barrel and a telestock, and should be accurate to 600+ yards along with excellent reliability. It might be worth waiting for. Compared to the LMT it comes from a company with equal quality and engineering abilities, but it does not have the quick-change barrel system of the MWS, and so far has no combat experience while the UK is using the LMT with excellent results in Afghanistan.

 

[RAINS]

Would love to own an LMT .308. But price is an issue. Should have mentioned it earlier. (I keep trying to win the lottery but, umm well it's hard to do!) At around 2.5k for a POF is really pushing it! Would like to come in a lot lower so I can get up and running right away with mags/ammo and optics. At 2.5k it would be next June before I could get a 2.5k rifle operational.
I was digging around and came upon the RRA 16' LAR-8. Like the mid-length gas system on it. Like the price too.. Any thoughts??

 

[Z-Michigan]

The LMT MWS with the chrome-lined barrel goes for $2300 on Gunbroker every couple weeks, various FFL dealer sellers. That must be just a little over dealer cost, I'm guessing. So if $2500 for the POF is an option, the LMT may be an option.

I should mention that I've shot the POF 308 in a 14.5" (with permanent brake) version. It was fine, but nothing particularly impressed me about it.

The RRA LAR-8 is a proprietary design. RRA seems to have it fully debugged and it seems to be a good value. They are about 1" longer than most other designs for any given barrel length, because the design using FAL mags requires a longer lower receiver, which also means a longer upper and overall length. Other than that minor issue it seems to be a good rifle. Many threads to read if you do a search.

 

[ugaarguy]

I was digging around and came upon the RRA 16' LAR-8. Like the mid-length gas system on it. Like the price too.. Any thoughts??

RRA is the least compatible of the various .308 ARs. DPMS .308 AR rifles are far better built than their AR-15 style rifles. The best thing the DPMS LR-308 has going for it is compatibility with KAC SR-25 parts. LMT uses a proprietary bbl. mounting system, but the MWS 308 is otherwise SR-25 compatible. MagPul PMag LR magazines, and JP rifles parts are SR-25/LR-308 compatible. That's why I went when with the LR-308 when I found a good deal on one.

I wouldn't yet trust my life to my LR-308, but I wouldn't trust it to an LAR-8 either. With the LR-308 I can at least upgrade to better parts if I need to. The DPMS LR-308 (and the Remington & Bushmaster versions - they're all part of the "Freedom Group") is priced comparably to the RR LAR-8.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Take a look at the ArmaLite Infantry profile AR10, light weight and accuracy at a affordable price. No matter what brand .308 AR you buy it's a win, these rifles are superior to the M14, Garand style battle rifles. The two biggest things I see are the reduced recoil and accuracy. I have a 16" ArmaLite and a 21" Noveske and they are a pure pleasure to shoot. Looking to add a LMT MWS. I still shoot my M14's and Garands often, but not as often.

 

[fragout]

I am currently downrange right now and my issued rifle is an M14. I have mine in a USGI synthetic stock (Refer to first pic in post #2 above) ( No. That is not me in the pic shooting it.) Where did you find that pic anyhow?


I have tried the M110 before as well as the Scar-h just recently here, and was really hoping to see a big improvement compared to the M14, but I haven't been impressed with either as an overall rifle for SDM use in the Infantry. The M14 works well in this capacity, and I do not see a reason why it should be replaced.......but then again..... decisions like this are not up to the folks who use them over here.
Regardless..... if the bad guys are out at anywheres up to 700meters, then they can be effectively engaged with the M14. It depends on the shooter in the end from my experiences at shooting them just recently.

The lack of M14 magazines used to be a problem back in 2005, but not any longer, as they are being manufactured by Checkmate Industries (CMI), and they work as well as any other GI mag. The Sage stock is not all that necessary either, and adds weight along with a bunch of rails. I havent had the chance to mess with the newer version of the Sage stock.

FWIW...... I have no issues getting a scope mount to fit on a M14 service rifle. The Smith mounts we have work fine, as do the ARMS #18 I installed a few months ago here.

As far as the civilian versions go....... I still prefer the M14/M1A over the AR10 and equivalents. The reason stems from how the M14 fits my own mitts/mug/shoulders, compared to the other 7.62x51mm chambered semi automatic rifles out there. I personally have not even seen any Fal's or FNAR's in Afghanistan or Iraq on any previous deployments either. The only place I have seen a Fal was in Africa.

I would suggest that you get a hold of both RAINS....... and see which fits you the best.

BTW...... SAI is not the only company producing a civie M14.....

Fulton Armory

762MM Firearms

Smith Enterprise Inc. (Not sure if they are building complete rifles or not, at this time)

LRB Arms

In addition...... Alot of folks seem worried about bent op-rods as of late. Luckily for folks who use the M1A/M14, there are 2 routes to take if this really worries some.
The first is the use of an adjustable gas plug. They run about 30 bucks or so last time I looked. The other is to simply close the spindle valve which cuts off any gas from entering the cylinder. In short..... the op-rod is not affected as it does not move, but the drawback is that it will not cycle in semiautomatic form, but only manual. (What fun is that,,,,right?)



Here is my recent addition.....


Built by LRB ARMS using their M14SA hammer forged receiver. The bbl is one of their Criterion 18.5in chrome lined std contour examples. If it shoots as good as my other M14S Tanker, then anything from the muzzle out to around 700 deemed worthy of a 30caliber hole is achievable.




Good luck with your decision.

11B

 

[1stmarine]

The FNAR is a great system. It shoots well below MOA with many loads but I have to point out the following drawbacks.

- It is very accurate but it is very picky with the loads. Shoots amazing with one NATO round (lets say DAG) and then so-so with the next (Federal example)
- The magazines are in the $70-$80 area.
- No accessories for a forward rail.
- As with any 20" barrel it needs to be threaded for a break/can. No option from factory.
- It is a pain to strip-clean.

So, it is a great system but I would say it is "VERY" Special Purpose.

These are my impressions on the others:

- M1A. What can we add to this one. It is in active duty again for a reason. It is a great rifle battle proven but
to make it lighter and more portable you need to spend some moola. (Fulton Armory). 'Nothing wrong with the classic
look, I love it but many folks want adjutable stocsk and cheeks pieces, forward rails, etc...
The other option is the scout and even the socom but they need a little work to lighten up. Again DIY or fulton armory.
In any case it is hard to go wrong with this one. Keep in mind this is not modular system so when you choose
barrel that's it. Magazines are plentiful and good price, including surplus and preban.

- SAIGA .308 win. in 16". It is an amazingly simple system and this one is very accurate for an AK. I sold my SocomII and now have four
of these. Things you need to do is to put a thread and a break and converted in compliance as these are russian imports.
The conversion is very desirable just because of the factory trigger that is not great to put it nicely but hey it works if you
do not want to touch it.
The good thing is you have many accessories and very good price for those. Even w/o converting is a great 500-600 yards
rifle with std ball ammo, reliability will be on the top (AK) and easy to clean and zero worries. Will shoot and cycle with anything
typical of the AK reliability.
The magazines are not cheap though, but they are coming down. This is not modular neither obviously.

- Rock Rivers - Very accurate AR platform. FAL magazines plentiful. Modular. The problem is that they are not compatible
with the Knights / DPMS that are the trend and a bit more expensive for virtually the same value. Great systems.

- Armalite AR10. Not a great fun of this one. It can be a great system I just didn't have good luck with it accuracy wise. Magazines are
not compatible with M1A like many folks think.

-POF - Great systems, amazing piston but overpriced. No compatible with the trend so I will only consider should they have a
reasonable entry level option.

- Les Baers - They have a long barrel .308 system that is capable of producing below 1/2MOA all day. Nice but you have to pay.

- DPMS - Great options there. One must be careful with the barrel choice as they are changing mills from time to time so
might not be a bad thing to build your upper. The good thing about this one is in trend now and witht he SR-25 adopted as
the Army sniper we enjoy the compatibility of magazines and parts moving forward.
The 16" and 18" barrels are extremely accurate and easy to carry around if that is what you want. You have also other
vendors with amazing options from beefed up matched billets to fail zero parts and ready to order match barrels for this system
that can make it more reliable and evenmore accurate.

- Fulton Armory. Great options there. Compatible with the DPMS platform.

My conclusion:
The Knights is probably one of the best out there but with extra budget in a DPMS based system you can probably achieve the
same or even better. You could build an entire DPMS based system w/o using one single part from DPMS and exceed the
quality and accuracy of this platform. I am not saying you have to do this, but this tells you the amount of options you have
in this growing platform with the modularity options of any AR based system.

Also if you don't need modularity and want something to carry in the woods fast handling, super reliable, very accurate and worry free
look into the saiga. The factory trigger sucks but with a simple low budget conversion job to make it legal it will excel at many roles.

Those are my two cents. I have been shooting .308 for 25+ years both in service and as a hobby.

------------

 

[Zerodefect]

OP, If you're on a really tight budget, and allready have an AK. Then why not skip the battlerifle range, on go to a long range precision bolt action rifle?

A decent bolt action is still the cheapest way to get a .308 round on a target 800 yards away. Maybe something like a Savage FP10 Mcmillan?

 

[RAINS]

I really do like to carry semi .308 guns in the field. It's an intimidation/ log penetration thing. Nothing gets my attention in the woods more than some-one letting louse with a semi .308. Be they 100ft or 3 miles away. I just never felt naked carrying my old CETME out-there. I don't get that feeling from a bolt gun or even a 7.62x39ak.
I'm not going to buy anything without handling it first. Made that mistake before! Once picked up I can usually tell in 5 seconds if a rifle is to my liking or not. Always loved the feel of the Grand type guns. M1 Grand, M1carbine all handle great. For some reason full length m14 type guns don't do it for me. I'd just bag a 18' m14 type gun and be done with it but.... I don't like the old school stock on them. I live in a wet area and if a gun goes hiking it needs to come out of the stock to be oiled. It's amazing just what you can do to a gun bellow the stock line in Oregon. heck I even went to Glocks because I can clean them out completely. Yes every once in a wile I do go swimming with gun on me! Not on purpose though!
Think I need to handle a .308 16' AR. I like the idea of building up one off of an DPMS receiver. Would be nice to nit-pick everything. Not sure my wallet would though. Never really thought about a sagia. Will do some research on them.

 

[fragout]

Mine are all in GI synthetic M14 stocks, so are impervious to the weather, and are lighter in weight vs most rail heavy folder/collapsible type stocks for the M14.
This is one of the nice things about this type of rifle, as the options for different types of stocks is very plentiful.

I also prefer the "Scout" profile, as mine are at 39in of OAL, compared to the std OAL of 44.3in.


11B

 

[weeniewawa]

I have a POF lower with a Fulton Armory upper

I do know that they sell POF stripped lowers

if you are looking for a lower, make sure it will fit the upper you want

the Knights Armory,DPMS,POF and LaRue style is different from Armalite and Noveske pattern along with the magazine style

Armalite/Noveske use their own style of mags and are sometimes very hard to find

all the others use the Knights SR-25/DPMS style, which are readily available which is also made by Magpul