Battle Rifle... can buy M1a loaded OR M4gry
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They are almost at the extreme ends of the spectrum. I have and use both. The M1A is a great battle rifle firing a great cartridge, weighing in at about 9.5 pounds loaded with sling. If your eyes are up to the iron sights that is a great place to quit. It will put rounds on a man-sized target out to 500 yards all day long. The better mounts (I have a Smith Ent. mount) and optics will bring that up to about 12.5 pounds or more and affect balance and handling adversely. I much prefer mine with irons only and will only go the optical route (decent 4-6 power fixed power scope or ACOG) as a last resort.
The shorty M4gery ARs are compact, light, and handy, with an actual effective range (lethality-wise) with the M193 type round out to about 140 yards. In other words, the 7.62 rifle is just getting going nicely when the 5.56 is running out of gas. Depending on where you are, that may not be a problem at all. In my case I cheat with a 1.5X compact ACOG and a match trigger which turns the carbine into a real screamer.
The way the world looks I would get the AR first and take it from there. You can only shoot one at a time anyway.
The shorty M4gery ARs are compact, light, and handy, with an actual effective range (lethality-wise) with the M193 type round out to about 140 yards. In other words, the 7.62 rifle is just getting going nicely when the 5.56 is running out of gas. Depending on where you are, that may not be a problem at all. In my case I cheat with a 1.5X compact ACOG and a match trigger which turns the carbine into a real screamer.
The way the world looks I would get the AR first and take it from there. You can only shoot one at a time anyway.
Just go with the M4 type in 6.5 Grendel and you have the best of both worlds.
It is light and handy. The 6.5 Grendel beats the 5.56 at close range and matches the 7.62 at long range.
Good info at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel
It is light and handy. The 6.5 Grendel beats the 5.56 at close range and matches the 7.62 at long range.
Good info at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel
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NickEllis
Member
Ah, the Grendel. I have thought long about that one. How accessible is ammo, or are we talking realistically mainly in reloads? I do like the specs on the Grendel. Can you match a Grendel upper to a normal AR lower? I had read somewhere they were compatible, but I noticed that STAG arms sold separate lowers for the 5.56 and the 6.8. If the lowers were compatible, I would be tempted to get that soon in the future.
I called my FFL dealer today and we are gonna go ahead and group buy a synthetic stainless loaded, and I am going to pick up a nice walnut stock later, I hear Fred's Stocks has some good options.
Looks like the Appleseed Shoot in June up in Cordelene just might be an option too, since my brother is up in Sand Point and we are planning a visit around that time. Won't be able to make the Wyoming shoot, but Idaho will be enjoyable regardless. It will be nice to have an M1a to shoot with, hopefully someone there can point me in the right direction anyways, and some good pointers would be really excellent.
Actually, my life is starting to revolt around three major disciplines: bible study, language acquisition, and the finer points of trigger work. It sure would be nice to have some instruction, I'm finding out that I can shoot all day long and not make much progress, either with the Kimber or my rifles, without some good instruction. Like language learning, without a good tutor its pretty tough. Imperfect practice just makes mush.
Thanks for all the advice, y'all have been a good help. Actually, this board convinced me to buy my first Kimber as well, and I've loved it and am still loving it 40,000 rounds later. Speaking of which, I'm going to be late for my IDPA match! Catch y'all later.
Nick
I called my FFL dealer today and we are gonna go ahead and group buy a synthetic stainless loaded, and I am going to pick up a nice walnut stock later, I hear Fred's Stocks has some good options.
Looks like the Appleseed Shoot in June up in Cordelene just might be an option too, since my brother is up in Sand Point and we are planning a visit around that time. Won't be able to make the Wyoming shoot, but Idaho will be enjoyable regardless. It will be nice to have an M1a to shoot with, hopefully someone there can point me in the right direction anyways, and some good pointers would be really excellent.
Actually, my life is starting to revolt around three major disciplines: bible study, language acquisition, and the finer points of trigger work. It sure would be nice to have some instruction, I'm finding out that I can shoot all day long and not make much progress, either with the Kimber or my rifles, without some good instruction. Like language learning, without a good tutor its pretty tough. Imperfect practice just makes mush.
Thanks for all the advice, y'all have been a good help. Actually, this board convinced me to buy my first Kimber as well, and I've loved it and am still loving it 40,000 rounds later. Speaking of which, I'm going to be late for my IDPA match! Catch y'all later.
Nick
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Given the way the wind is blowing, I would NOT want to be caught out in the cold with my only militarily credible armament being something exotic & dubious to feed. I'd stick w/ the commonly available military cartridges.
The 6.5 Grendel works with all standard AR15 lower receivers. Many have been waiting on ammo other than Alexander Stuff or Lapua brass for a while now...as it is a fairly new cartridge.
Now, Wolf ammunition has done their initial production run of 10 million rounds of 6.5 Grendel ammo in their Wolf Gold line. The ammo arrived in port here in the US a couple of weeks ago and now is making its way from customs through distributors to retailers.
Black Hills also announced production of 6.5 Grendel ammo. Their first production round is a 6.5mm 123gr SMK that will begin being sold in March or May iirc. They finished development of the 123gr round and are now working on some other loading but not saying specifically what bullet yet.
geekw/.45 there have been no feeding problems with the 6.5 Grendel unless using 5.56 mags rather than dedicated 6.5 Grendel mags. You can usually only load 3 to 5 rounds to reliably feed from a 5.56 mag due to the different case diameter. Put more in and they want to pop out. There are some exceptions with 5.56 mags though. My H&K 30 round 5.56 mag will work with 20 rounds of 6.5 Grendel.
Now, Wolf ammunition has done their initial production run of 10 million rounds of 6.5 Grendel ammo in their Wolf Gold line. The ammo arrived in port here in the US a couple of weeks ago and now is making its way from customs through distributors to retailers.
Black Hills also announced production of 6.5 Grendel ammo. Their first production round is a 6.5mm 123gr SMK that will begin being sold in March or May iirc. They finished development of the 123gr round and are now working on some other loading but not saying specifically what bullet yet.
geekw/.45 there have been no feeding problems with the 6.5 Grendel unless using 5.56 mags rather than dedicated 6.5 Grendel mags. You can usually only load 3 to 5 rounds to reliably feed from a 5.56 mag due to the different case diameter. Put more in and they want to pop out. There are some exceptions with 5.56 mags though. My H&K 30 round 5.56 mag will work with 20 rounds of 6.5 Grendel.
redneckdan
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- Jul 2, 2006
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I would go with the m1a. I humped my garand this year in the deer woods and didn't mind the weight. Having a good sling made all the difference. I was glad to have the extra power and a steady gun when that 8 point popped out of the woods, 250 yds down the power line easement.
Battle rifles
hello,
my two cents would be get the AR.
get a colt if thats what floats your boat.
Do gun games with it, etc and you can figure
out what works.( Emotionally, lotsa votes with
the M1a..thats just the nature of this forum).
2-3 taps, get some mags, a stable optic.
Nice and efficient implement. Try be objective.
have a nice day.
Ac
hello,
my two cents would be get the AR.
get a colt if thats what floats your boat.
Do gun games with it, etc and you can figure
out what works.( Emotionally, lotsa votes with
the M1a..thats just the nature of this forum).
2-3 taps, get some mags, a stable optic.
Nice and efficient implement. Try be objective.
have a nice day.
Ac
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NickEllis
Member
About the Grendel, should I ever chose to pick up an upper (as I start a thread drift on my own thread.... 
), whats the news on the rate of twist for the 6.8 barrels? Do you find the same problem as with the 5.56? Or, since its already using a much heavier bullet (you mentioned a 123 grain), are the twist rates not a problem. Excuse my ignorance, its new territory.
I might be interested in picking one of those up in the future, especially with a good reloading press set up now in the shop. Thanks.
Nick
), whats the news on the rate of twist for the 6.8 barrels? Do you find the same problem as with the 5.56? Or, since its already using a much heavier bullet (you mentioned a 123 grain), are the twist rates not a problem. Excuse my ignorance, its new territory.I might be interested in picking one of those up in the future, especially with a good reloading press set up now in the shop. Thanks.
Nick
Limeyfellow
Member
As long as we don't have Bush, Cheney and Lott etc pull through with their hatred of what they see as non sporting rifles, I would probrobly go with the M1a too. They seem to be the target rifle of choice amongst many miltary rifle shooters, useful for hunting and I like long distance shooting.
The Colt while nice has more limited use, so its a matter of what you got already.
The Colt while nice has more limited use, so its a matter of what you got already.
The Grendel is the 6.5mm with great long range capability and accuracy...the 6.8 is the SPC which just adds knockdown capability at shorter ranges but hasn't been publishing very good accuracy (most posts are 1.5moa or greater at 100, very few say they achieve 1.0 moa, some are saying 4 moa!!).
The Grendel usually comes with 1 in 8 twist although you can get a 1 in 9 still iirc.
The Grendel usually comes with 1 in 8 twist although you can get a 1 in 9 still iirc.
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NickEllis
Member
Right, the 6.5. My mistake there, crossed my wires. Thanks for the clarification. Any pros/cons with the 1/8 vs. 1/9 twist? I haven't done any research on that, with the exception of the .223 twists. No idea how that relates to any of the other calibres.
Nick
Nick
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Get the 6920. It is the closest thing to a mil-spec weapon you can get. The M1A is a springfield commerical copy of the M14 and is not held to the same standards as far as metallurgy is concerned.
I'm not an M1A hater or anything like that, it's a fine rifle. However, if you have neither, the AR is a better choice. You can gunsmith the whole rifle yourself. Parts are everywhere. You can customize it to your needs or preferences. It accepts optics in a better way than the M1A...and optics aren't the future, they're today.
Ammo is cheaper, thus easier to hoard larger amounts. Magazines are cheap and plentiful. It's easier to shoot, is more accurate, it is lighter, and has no recoil which directly results in being able to shoot it faster which means you can engage multiple targets quicker, or hit an individual moving target more efficiently. That equates directly into being more "firepower"...
It's a better all around SHTF/BAN preparation platform.
There IS a reason why the M16 family replaced the M14 rifle.
just my $0.02
I'm not an M1A hater or anything like that, it's a fine rifle. However, if you have neither, the AR is a better choice. You can gunsmith the whole rifle yourself. Parts are everywhere. You can customize it to your needs or preferences. It accepts optics in a better way than the M1A...and optics aren't the future, they're today.
Ammo is cheaper, thus easier to hoard larger amounts. Magazines are cheap and plentiful. It's easier to shoot, is more accurate, it is lighter, and has no recoil which directly results in being able to shoot it faster which means you can engage multiple targets quicker, or hit an individual moving target more efficiently. That equates directly into being more "firepower"...
It's a better all around SHTF/BAN preparation platform.
There IS a reason why the M16 family replaced the M14 rifle.
just my $0.02
I did this with an HK 91- once. It was so badly balanced, I thought I'd almost be better served with a sharp stick.
I let myself be convinced by some extremely tactical friends a few years ago that I "needed" an AR-15 style platform. I got a Colt AR-15A2. And was highly disatisfied. I thought the platform was entirely too large for the round it fired, and was much happier with the M1 Carbine I bought later.
Personally, in your shoes, I'd pick up a DSA, one of the builds from Steyr parts, for about $800. You would then have a well balanced .308 autoloader, battle tested and useful, with common ammo and mags. I would then eventually get a shorter carbine, but I'd get the FAL type rifle first.
John
mrmeval
Member
With the AR as a platform you can get uppers that will fire some unbelievable number of different types of ammuntion.
And there is the .50BMG bolt action upper...
Then there are the larger receiver variants such as
http://www.gunblast.com/DPMS-308.htm
And there is the .50BMG bolt action upper...
Then there are the larger receiver variants such as
http://www.gunblast.com/DPMS-308.htm
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Er, by "dubious to feed" I was referring to the dubious availability of the 6.5 ammo, compared to .223 and .308.
My bad for not being clear.
Lobotomy Boy
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- Feb 16, 2004
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- 2,449
I believe it is every law-abiding citizen's duty to have at least one AR-type gun in functional condition; that said, in your case I'd go with the M1A1. Your friend is giving you a nice opportunity to own a valuable firearm. You can pick up an AR anytime, for less money than this offer, but cheap deals on M1A1s are few and far between.
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NickEllis
Member
I agree that everyone should have, or at least be competent with the AR platform. Should we ever be called up en mass to defend home and heartland, we will probably be using "whatever is on the ground", and that means alot of AR's as its the going military weapon of choice.
I don't see this as an either/or scenario. I will of course build/buy/etc. several types of AR's, simply because they are great weapons. I think the question is at this time, with this opportunity and the options ahead which platform for now. I think I'll go with the M1a, and then build up/save up to an AR in the upcoming months.
Nick
I don't see this as an either/or scenario. I will of course build/buy/etc. several types of AR's, simply because they are great weapons. I think the question is at this time, with this opportunity and the options ahead which platform for now. I think I'll go with the M1a, and then build up/save up to an AR in the upcoming months.
Nick
GardDog223
Member
M1A !!
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NickEllis
Member
Ok, well the next question is what stock for the M1a. I can get either the walnut or the synthetic for the same cost.
Although I do love the way the walnut looks, I expect that this will be used quite extensively and in compromising situations, in the woods, etc. Either way I plan on picking up an synthetic stock. Would it be better to go aftermarket with the synthetic and get the walnut from Springfield, or get the synthetic from Springfield and look around for an aftermarket show stock?
If anyone has good options for aftermarket synethics that are durable but highly shootable let me know.
Thanks!
Nick
Although I do love the way the walnut looks, I expect that this will be used quite extensively and in compromising situations, in the woods, etc. Either way I plan on picking up an synthetic stock. Would it be better to go aftermarket with the synthetic and get the walnut from Springfield, or get the synthetic from Springfield and look around for an aftermarket show stock?
If anyone has good options for aftermarket synethics that are durable but highly shootable let me know.
Thanks!
Nick
Grendel ammo hard to find?
Its not the best, but wolf brass cased, reloadable is $10 and change at Gander Mountian, which is about the same price as low to mid level 308.
The AR is great because you pull 2 pins toss on a different upper, and presto you have a new rifle.
Its not the best, but wolf brass cased, reloadable is $10 and change at Gander Mountian, which is about the same price as low to mid level 308.
The AR is great because you pull 2 pins toss on a different upper, and presto you have a new rifle.
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