.308 questions, new to this caliber

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shaker

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Hi everyone been reading this forum for quite a while trying to decide on a 308 platform. I'm 55 years old, like to farm and do aerospace machine work and part time electronic surveillance integration. I have a number of handguns and everything from a Daisy bb gun to Parker Brothers shotguns, Winchesters and a couple .223 semi's.

I'm looking to add to my collection with a .308 semi battle rifle. I have been doing allot of reading on AR vs Fal platform and from what I've read, the FAL makes more sense regarding user ergonomics, reload speed, worldwide military acceptance, etc. I am a firm believer in buy once cry once and I cry all the time because I just love good, high quality equipment no matter what it is.

Qustions are, if you dont mind;

If money was not a consideration;

What would your choice in manufacturers be for a new, off the shelf, high end .308 semi in FAL and AR platforms (flat top) and why? I'm not looking for something already "tricked out" but would also like a reccomendation on glass as well. I've been away from guns for a while and have been hearing all about these new holo scopes.

Since this would be my first purchase in semi .308 caliber, I think it's wise to ask the experts here for some professional advice, as usual I plan to add to this caliber, over the years.

I just like shooting paper and varmits on occasion, deer every now and then and I get out to Montana on occasion. Good range and accuracy are my prime concerns after quality and reliability. I would also like and comments on triggers, barrel length and twist needed since I'm not too knowledgeable on all the details that go into a precision instrument. Unfortunatly I'm not much of a gun builder, swapping lowers and uppers, etc, so I would like to purchase a fine weapon right out of the box if possible.

I appolojize for the long post in advance and any advice you all can give me in this area is very much appreciated.

Thank You,

Scott
 
Heckler & Koch HK-91
Length Overall: 40.15"
Barrel Length: 18"
Weight: 8.7 lbs
Caliber: .308
Action Type: Roller Block Delay
Magazine capacity: 20

I want one. but can't afford the 15-50 benjamins that it costs.
 
I just like shooting paper and varmits on occasion, deer every now and then and I get out to Montana on occasion. Good range and accuracy are my prime concerns after quality and reliability.
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What you described sounds like you would do well with a .308 AR platform such as the DPMS LR-308 or the Armalite AR-10.

I've been down the semiauto .308 route-- owning a HK-91, FAL, Saiga 308, and now a LR-308. No semiauto military-style .308 will match the accuracy of the .308 AR except possibly a loaded M1A.

Neither the FAL or the G3 are known for being precision rifles. Even the HK PSG1's accuracy was more hype than reality.



I would also like and comments on triggers, barrel length and twist needed since I'm not too knowledgeable on all the details that go into a precision instrument.
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Well, if you go the .308 AR route, you REALLY need to replace the trigger. If money is no object, a Geissele DMR or High Speed Match trigger is what you want. Those triggers will run you about $250. JP Enterprises also makes excellent triggers and I think they are cheaper.

Barrel length is a personal preference in a lot of ways. The longer it is, the higher the velocity you get. That can translate into range. However, shorter barrels are no less accurate-- they just have lower velocities that will affect the ballistics a bit. I have a 24" Stainless Steel fluted bull barrel with 1:10 twist on my rifle. It weighs a ton, but does what I want it to do.

IMHO, the most ideal trade-off of velocity and length on a .308 AR is 18". I wouldn't mind having a 18" or possibly even a 16" .308 AR one day.

Practically all the barrels you will find for this will have the 1:10 twist. I think I've seen one or two with an odd-ball twist of 1:11, but I can't remember.



IF you choose to go with a HK-91 clone, I've spoken to many people who have been very happy with the PTR-91. However, this rifle will not match the accuracy potential of the .308 AR and is not quite so easy to mount optics.

If you choose to go with a FAL platform, MAKE SURE you get one that has the widow's peak feed ramps rather than the unibrow feed ramps. Better yet, MAKE sure you get one from DSA. They will take care of you.

However, be aware of a couple things:

1.) The FAL is not known for extreme accuracy. I'm not saying that they are inaccurate, but there is better in that department.

2.) If you are planning on mounting optics, plan to add an extra $100 or so into your budget to replace your receiver cover with the DSA heavy duty cover with optics rail.



Finally, while I LOVE the .308 AR, I will be the first to admit that the M1A has a lot of things going for it. Before you make up your mind, take a look at a loaded Springfield M1A. I did. Ultimately, I went with the .308 AR, but many chose differently and are as satisfied as I am.

I hope this helps somewhat.


-- John
 
I upgraded to a factory two-stage trigger in my LR-308. I thought it was the bees knees compared to typical factory AR triggers. It was compared to stock. Then I got a Geissele DMR. It took weeks to find anyone with one in stock.

It's ruined my life.

Everything else feels terrible, but I can't afford to upgrade all my ARs with a Geissele unit. If you're going for accuracy, a great trigger is definitely a must. For a battle rifle of average accuracy...not so critical. While the AR in 5.56mm seems to be very reliable, I've heard less flattering things regarding the AR in .308.
 
Check out LRB of Long Island. They make a very good hammer forged M14 type rifle.
 
I won't tell you what to get. You ought to try to get to a range or a shoot where someone might let you try out some different rifles.

I do love my M1A Loaded though...
M1A2.jpg

Jason
 
Get an LRB M14 with a match barrel, trigger and sights. LRB makes a hammer forged M14 receiver that is to die for, best of the best. In my opinion the M14 will be the most accurate semi auto .308 platform you can buy (out of FAL, AR10, M14). The military now uses the M14 as a designated marksman rifle and the army for years used the M14 as it's sniper rifle.
 
If money is not a concern...there is only 1 option.

LWRC...the one with 2 uppers, (an SBR and a long range precision weapon all in one)
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Uhm... wouldn't that be outside the parameters of a .308 calibered rifle?

A LWRC is a fine upper. And WILL NOT fill the same role as a .308.


-- John
 
Ahh... I spend a lot of time in the AR Variants forum and I've never seen that come up. It isn't vaporware, is it?

-- John
 
Will do, Ridge. That's not a .308 I've seen come up. I am thrilled to hear that there are more players coming into the .308 AR game.

What thread pattern/magazine is it based on? The DPMS LR-308/SR-25/FAR-308/R-25 or the Armalite AR-10?


Please say the DPMS one.....



EDIT: thanks for the link. Pulling it up now.

-- John
 
shaker,

You are going to have a real good time with any thing in the .308 platform from your FAL to a bolt gun or single shot.

I don't have much in the way of knowledge in the military .308's but I have raised and fed my first .308 a bolt gun in target configuration.

The .308 is probably one cartridge that you can't go wrong, it will shoot well from any platform and excells in long range( for me thats 600yds or farther) with bullets in the 175 gr area or you can load it down to 110 gr Vmax for varmints. You can shoot Hunter bench rest with that cartridge and it holds records still in that catagory.

The most common twist rate for the .308 is 1-10 it will carry you through the bullet weights mentioned above.

If you decide to get into hand loading, the .308 is very forgiving , I know this for a fact because I was able to shoot sub MOA .74" 5 round groups with my first try a reloading this fine caliber.

The platform responds well with a wide range of powders, RE 15 Varget, Win 748 are 3 of the top.

The bullet weights up to 180 grs are plenty for elk, moose, black bear, but can be reduced to 125 gr ballistic tips for white tail, antelope and other lighter game.

It will replicate the ballistics of the old 30-'06 work horse ou to 180 grs then the '06 has the edge in heavier weights.

It is one heck of a cartridge and is one that will quickly become one of your favorites.
 
Ridgerunner,


That is NICE. I likey.

And I LOVE that it is on the DPMS pattern. That translates to more of a presence in that platform, which in turn translates into more interest in aftermarket support.


-- John
 
I would strongly recommend the FAL rifle for a semi-auto 308. DSA makes several splendid versions of the FAL. If you are on a budget, I would consider the DSA STG58. If not, then look at a DSA SA58 with the para stock and 18" barrel. Overall this is my favorite rifle. One option you definitely want to get is the DSA integral rail top cover, I think they call it the Extreme Duty scope mount. It makes mounting optics so much easier.
 
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