308 Rifles?

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zammyman

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Hello, I'm glad to have found this forum. I'm looking to get into shooting at 300-400 yards with a 308, killing paper targets with good match grade ammo. I've been looking at the Remington 700 SPS Tactical ( http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_700_SPS.asp ) along with the Remington 700 SPS 308, and finally the Savage 11FXP3 or the Savage 11F. I've found the 11FXP3 with a junk scope bundle, which I'd toss, for less than the Savage 11F. I've talked to a few people who think the 700 SPS tactical will be more accurate because it's a 20" heavy barrel, and will bow less when being fired. I know 400 yards isn't a long shot, and I don't need the accuracy to be better than 1" at 100 yards or so.. though I would like .5 MOA...
I know optics are critical in something like this, and I certainly won't skimp on that. The Savage rifles seem good, though the stocks seem really weak; is there any way to stiffen them up without replacing them?
I don't intend to fire quickly, so the heat advantage of a heavy barrel really gives me nothing. Any opinions on what rifle would be the best choice for this, and finally, anybody have experience with what kind of shots they're getting with the Remington 700 SPS, the Savage 11FXP3, and the Savage 11F with Match grade ammo, such as the Federal 168 grain.
 
Savage 10FP

I have a Savage 10FP that is way more accurate than I am. I bought the basic one with the cheaper stock for $500.00 and replaced the stock. But, you can get one with a better stock from Savage. It also comes with the Accu-trigger which is awesome in my opinion. For the money. You can't go wrong.
 
I've heard of people cutting grooves in the forend of weak factory stocks and bedding pieces of aluminum or carbon fiber arrow shafts into the stock when they do their normal bedding jobs, but that seems like a lot of work to do that really isn't that necessary. I would look into the Savage models that come with the Choate stock, as it is supposed to be decent, or better yet, IMO, skip the Savage and go with the Remington. I believe the Remingtons you listed come with HS Precision stocks, which are top notch.
 
I'm a Remington fan, and that's what I'd buy, but there are a lot of sources I trust telling me to give Savage a good hard look, especially recent ones. I THINK, the truth is, with modern manufacturing techniques, you have to look really hard to find a brand name rifle that WON'T give you 1 MOA or better out of the box, with good ammo. It used to be unheard of, but the business has become so competitive that it has forced quality to be a lot tighter than it was say, 15 years ago. I think at the distances you're talking about, ANY rifle will work. Get good ammo, lighten the trigger to three lbs, and I THINK the only limitation would be you.

My cousin just bought a Remington 7600 carbine (18 1/2 inch barrel) pump rifle in .308, and put four through a circle less than one inch at 100. The fifth was a flier. (That rifle just moved to the top of my list for a brush rifle.)
 
rifle.gif

I'm happy with my SPS Tactical...with good reloads it will shoot .3 MOA all day long.

Today I busted a coyote at 473 yards with it...my first kill with this rifle...it sent a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip right through his lungs, and I have to say...that made a mess.

I have only had it a short time...I'm going to get some Leupold Mark 4 mounts and rings soon. I need that 15 MOA mount, as it is, I only have 22.75 MOA of "come up" (about 750 yards worth).

The scope is a Leupold Mark 2 6-18x40mm Tactical.
 
What is your price range? CDNN has FN PBR XPs cheap right now.

fn_pbr_xp_1.jpg
 
Everyone rags on the flimsy Savage stock, but the flimsy stock will almost always shoot sub MOA. It's a style over substance arguement. And it'd easy to epoxy a pushrod or piece of aluminum in the forearm to stiffen it for a bipod. Easier still is to replace it with a B&C Duramaxx, but it gets heavy. A 20" barrel is ok for 4-500 yards, but if you ever start shooting long distance (800-1000), you'll want a longer barrel. Almost impossible (more like impossible) to keep a 308 supersonic at 1000 out of a 20" barrel.
 
I don't have any trouble keeping 175 SMK's and 168 Ballistic Tips above the transonic zone at 1K from a 20 inch barrel.

Sure...the 155 Lapua Scenars make it easier, but it can be done with heavier bullets and without moly.

Its no trouble at all to get a 168 grain bullet going 2,700+ fps from my stock Remington 20 inch barrel...all it takes is 44.5 grains of Reloder 15 with Federal brass or 45 grains of the same powder with Winchester brass or 44.8 grains with Hornady brass. If you don't like Reloder 15, other powders that can be used are H4895 (not very consistent for me...YMMV), W748 (temp sensitive), IMR 3031 (OK but not as consistent as RL15), AA2520 (temp sensitive), BL-C2 (temp sensitive).
Those loads work in my gun, I have no idea how they will work in yours...I worked them up using QuickLoad and they are a bit "warm"...but all of them are below the max of 62,000 psi using once fired, neck sized brass...no signs of pressure in my rifle

Any of those along with a bullet that has a ballistic coefficient of .490 or above will make it to 1000 yards and still be at Mach 1.15 - Mach 1.2.

FWIW, I'm at 1,300 feet in elevation here...fairly low altitude.

DO NOT USE 168 Sierra MatchKings....they were designed for 300 meter competitions, their boat tail is at a 13 degree angle which is too steep and creates more drag than it relieves, 168 SMK's WILL NOT be stable past 800 yards (if they make it that far)...other 168 grain bullets do not have this problem, the angle of the boat tail should be around 9 degrees.

I have had great results with 168 Ballistic Tips, Barnes MRX and TSX, Hornady AMAX, Lapua 167 Scenars, and a few others...but my go to bullet is the 168 Nosler Ballistic Tip...its a dual purpose bullet, its equally good for both hunting and paper punching. (expands at long range and is very accurate)

I also like the 165 Ballistic Tip for a general purpose plinking bullet...but its ballistic coefficient is only .410, it will make it to 800 yards just fine, but that's about it...the 168 grain version has a BC of .490, that's pretty darn good for a 168 grain bullet...the 175 SMK is only .496
 
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I like the Savage line and even more the CZ line. Talk about a great trigger. I would be willing to say that from the factory nothing tops a properly adjusted CZ trigger. That means a lot to me and is a big reason my next rifle will probably be a CZ. It seems anymore everyone puts out rifles that shoot well. It is in the details where you separate things and to me the CZ wins out. To a lot of others they feel Remington's or Savage's win out. Buy what feels right. My CZ in .223 will hold 1/2 MOA if given the correct load and a good shooter.
 
I'm actually considering the Stevens 200 in a 308, then find a good stock for it down the road. Anybody know a good aftermarket for this rifle?
 
Why not a used remington 700? I would go with a remington 700 sps varmint its only about 50 bucks more than the regular sps and you get a nice heavy barrel a decent stock "well better than the savage" and a GREAT shooter...
 
Does anybody have experience with ammo for this, specifically what 150 grain generic (Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc) non match grade ammo this rifle likes? (10FP).
 
My savage 10FP put this group at 200 yards. It cost me ~$550 2.5 years ago. Its seen close to 700 rounds since i first took it home.



5xo4d5.jpg

Heres the rifle

2vb0hl0.jpg
 
Does anybody have experience with ammo for this, specifically what 150 grain generic (Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc) non match grade ammo this rifle likes? (10FP).
Click to expand...

zammyman,

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that (all Savage 10FP's like XXX brand). It's always a test procedure to see what your particular rifle likes.

Don
 
I'm going to try American Eagle 308 150 Grain FMJ, while it's certainly not match grade, it has a jacket that extends further than most ammo, and from what I've heard is an accurate round.
 
Avoid the light bullets. Savage .308 rifles have a 1:10 twist and are suited well to bullets from 150 to 180 grains. Mine happens to like a handload made of CCI primers, Speer 150gr JSP, Varget powder and a milsurp case. Every rifle is different, though. You'll have to experiment.
 
I've been looking at a stock from Choate, specifically their varmit stock. Overpriced, I admit, though it's a really nice stock.
 
Where on CDNN can I see the price for FN PBR XP? I'm having a hell of a time finding it. :confused:
 
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