.308 vs .311 bullet
- Thread starter quiknot
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Outlaws
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You might have some problems with stabilizing the bullet.
Cosmoline
Member
It depends, to some extent, on what kind of Mosin you're shooting. The Finns run about .310", with some as tight as .3085" These will generally do best with the special Lapua bullets that are nominal .308", but have some unique features. The soviet and Russian bores are .311" and above. You can certainly shoot .308" bullets out of them, but they won't be as accurate.
Also, most .30-30 bullets are designed for the .30-30, with crimp bands and flat noses. They don't have much point in a bolt action rifle, though they would expand really well at 54R velocities I expect.
Also, most .30-30 bullets are designed for the .30-30, with crimp bands and flat noses. They don't have much point in a bolt action rifle, though they would expand really well at 54R velocities I expect.
Bad Flynch
Member
Ditto on the Finn vs. Russian bore diameters.
The Finns have always used captured Russian MNs and reworked them. During the late 1930s, they switched to a 0.3095" groove diameter and shot a cartridge with a little smaller neck and bullet. Lapua still makes the 0.3095" bullets and they are extrememly accurate in these guns.
As WWII loomed, the Finns went back to the 0.3105 groove diameter and bullets so they could more easily utilize captured Russian ammo. That is where it stayed from then on. I have a Finn MN made in the late 1960s for officer marksmanship training and qualifications, and it takes the 0.311 bullets best.
The Russians have always use 0.311" nominal groove iameter barrels. However the true groove diameter can run as high as 0.314" sometimes. The large barrels are best with cast lead bullets sized to fit the big grooves.
The Finns have always used captured Russian MNs and reworked them. During the late 1930s, they switched to a 0.3095" groove diameter and shot a cartridge with a little smaller neck and bullet. Lapua still makes the 0.3095" bullets and they are extrememly accurate in these guns.
As WWII loomed, the Finns went back to the 0.3105 groove diameter and bullets so they could more easily utilize captured Russian ammo. That is where it stayed from then on. I have a Finn MN made in the late 1960s for officer marksmanship training and qualifications, and it takes the 0.311 bullets best.
The Russians have always use 0.311" nominal groove iameter barrels. However the true groove diameter can run as high as 0.314" sometimes. The large barrels are best with cast lead bullets sized to fit the big grooves.
You can paper patch the .308 bullet for a .311 bore or so I am told. I am not sure why a .308 bullet would not be accurate but it might have to do with the bearing surface to bullet length ratio. If so, a RN bullet might work or perhaps a spire point. I want to try 165gr BTSP .308 bullets in my 303 Brit, someday. (My 303 Brit bore is new). My theory is that the groove diameter has little to do with it - it is the bore diameter that counts. And my 303 Brit has a .304 bore. (Bu~~er)! My nephew in-law's, on the other hand, has a .302 bore. (I knew I shouldn't have given him that rifle - new barrel too! Not to mention an original factory Lee Enfield sporter with engraving and tang safety)!
303Guy
303Guy
DWARREN123
Member
Need to slug your bore to see what size it is and go with correct bullets for accuracy. If the bullet is too small not good for hitting things.
I did some experimenting with 308 bullets in a 7.62x39 CZ-527, as have others. Typically, accuracy was not effected, however 308 bullets had a lower velocity for the same load.
Try it and see what happens. I don't know about 7.62x54R, but most 7.62x39 dies come with ball expanders for 308 and 311.
Try it and see what happens. I don't know about 7.62x54R, but most 7.62x39 dies come with ball expanders for 308 and 311.
res45
Member
My M44 slugged out to .314 I shoot a variety of bullets in it from pulled original FMJ that I re reload to lesson the recoil and improve the accuracy to several commercial jacketed bullets. I use the RCBS dies that came with .308 and .310 expander balls, about the best I have been able to obtain with any bullets i have tried and there are many more to choose from is about 2" groups at 50 Yds. with iron sights. But since I'm not scoping it at this point I'm happy with that.
Harley Quinn
Member
You are going to find out when you reload your own and shoot it as to what you are going to be happy with.
Many don't have a very good grouping out much further than 50 yards as has been mentioned (ability is one thing accuracy another). If you were looking for "minute of angle" MOA: http://riflestocks.tripod.com/moa.html
I am not sure why you chose to shoot older weapons, they are good for what is mentioned. But not the real accurate I am afraid.
Many don't have a very good grouping out much further than 50 yards as has been mentioned (ability is one thing accuracy another). If you were looking for "minute of angle" MOA: http://riflestocks.tripod.com/moa.html
I am not sure why you chose to shoot older weapons, they are good for what is mentioned. But not the real accurate I am afraid.
Cosmoline
Member
Tell that to my Swiss 1911! Made by SIG for battle in 1915 and it can outshoot any modern rifle this side of the match grades. It's true that most of the Soviet Mosins are minute of Squarehead, but they can be improved with tweaking. The Finns with their thicker and stiffer barrels are usually about 2MOA, with some of the 28/30's much better. With Mosins it's mostly a question of finding the load the rifle likes, making sure the stock is well fitted to the receiver and managing any barrel/stock contact out front.
Harley Quinn
Member
Slugging a barrel:
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_slugging.html
The piece of lead shoved through will give you the lands and groves of the barrel.
Some have used a brass rod .25/.28/.30 bought at a welding supply location, to force it through also. I have had to tap them along sometimes harder than I like to, some have used hard wood dowels also, but they will some times break.
Cleaning the bore good and leaving it moist is not a bad idea. I have done it from the muzzle also.
Good luck.
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_slugging.html
The piece of lead shoved through will give you the lands and groves of the barrel.
Some have used a brass rod .25/.28/.30 bought at a welding supply location, to force it through also. I have had to tap them along sometimes harder than I like to, some have used hard wood dowels also, but they will some times break.
Cleaning the bore good and leaving it moist is not a bad idea. I have done it from the muzzle also.
Good luck.
res45
Member
How to slug your bore.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp
Harley Quinn
Member
Res45,
Good post.
The picture of one I like is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_Sniper_Rifle
But I doubt if that is his
Heck of a weapon
Good post.
The picture of one I like is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_Sniper_Rifle
But I doubt if that is his
Heck of a weapon
Sunray
Member
"...how does one slug a barrel?..." It's far less complicated than Mike Trope makes it out to be. Just hammer a cast .30 calibre(it'll expand a bit) bullet through the bore with a brass rod and a plastic mallet then measure the bullet with a micrometer or calipre. It's best to do it from the chamber end.
The nominal bore diameter on a Moisin is .311". A .308" bullet will rattle down the barrel. It's too small.
The nominal bore diameter on a Moisin is .311". A .308" bullet will rattle down the barrel. It's too small.
Harley Quinn
Member
zxcvbob
Member
Why not use bullets for a 303 British? I'm not sure what the exact size is, but I know they are a little larger than .309
Bob
Bob
Cosmoline
Member
I use .303 Brit/Jap bullets all the time for Mosins.
Harley Quinn
Member
Good choice and you know without slugging they are better than the ones for the 308----It is a given
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=165542
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