.308 Win Reloading Question Also Annealing Before or After Prep?

[Load Master]

My first question, do you single stage size your .308 or size on a progressive?

When annealing, do you prep the brass first, and why?

I purchased Lake City .308 once fired brass. I wet tumbled it and once dried I dry media tumbled to polish it up more. This brass with proper lube still takes more effort to size than I expected. I'm not sticking any cases, but the force needed is more than what I would want to put my progressive through. The dates on the brass show 2012 - 2013, so this isn't fresh brass. I also have no idea what this brass was originally shot out of. This is my first venture into 308 brass prep. I have done many thousands of .223 and 30/06. This 308 is a bit different to say the least.

Also, wondering if annealing would be in order for this base. Thanks!!

 

[Blue68f100]

I anneal after I have the brass clean, before sizing. Makes sizing easier. You may/will need to reset your sizing die due to different spring back. If properly annealed you will have less spring back.

 

[Grumulkin]

The only progressive press I have is for shotshell reloading. I've loaded thousands of rounds on single state presses.

I don't clean brass before resizing. All case prep, trimming, etc. is done before cleaning. I also, not that long ago, processed probably 1,500 to 2,000 pieces of Lake City brass. I clean the brass with stainless steel pins and the last step is annealing. If I cleaned before resizing, then I'd have to clean again again to get the lube off which would waste my time.

One of the ways to tell if the annealing temperature is appropriate is to stop before there is flare of the flame; a tiny bit of flare on an occasional case is OK. If the cases are dirty with lube, etc. the flare might not be as dependable and you might get ugly cases with burned on soot. The last opinions on dirty cases are not from experience because I've never annealed dirty cases.

 

[Walkalong]

Anneal before sizing, so that means prep after annealing.

Once fired LC fired from bolt guns hasn't (Shouldn't be) work hardened enough to worry about annealing, unless you plan to do it after every firing anyway.

Once fired from machine guns is a different animal, and annealing could help there.

I doubt most people anneal it first, or even at all.

 

[Load Master]

Thanks guys for the info. That helps a lot. I only have 250 cases to prep. I haven't complete the rifle these round are being prep for. Wait on a few parts, lower and the rail are all I need to finish it.

 

[firewrench044]

Brass of that vintage would have been used in a full automatic weapon
otherwise it would have a head stamp LC LR ( Lake City, Long Range )
( used in a rifle )

 

[Load Master]

Brass of that vintage would have been used in a full automatic weapon
otherwise it would have a head stamp LC LR ( Lake City, Long Range )
( used in a rifle )

That makes sense. I've sized many 30/06 and never required the amount of force needed to resize these.

 

[Wildfire]

There are very good instructions on line about annealing rifle brass. I would look at that. Orange may be too much. Flare is way too much.
You should also be able to look up LC brass and see how Mil spec brass is made. This would enlighten you. nothing near how commercial brass is made. Mil spec brass is made in a hurry. Less time spent and way less quality. If you do not anneal, you may expect around 5 or so reloads to that brass. After 2 or 3 firings then anneal it and you should get some more life from it. Annealing can distort cases. Size after annealing. There is a way easy to do way of annealing and cost is low. "Tempilac" Temperature indicating liquid is used to see when the brass is done. 750 Tempilac is right for that round. You are going to hear different, but Oh well.
Mil spec brass has less case capacity because the brass is thicker {not stronger just thicker}.

 

[z7]

As has been said, lc 308 brass is machine gun fired. i processed about 500pcs a few years ago, i ended up annealing before sizing, i think it helps. i did a test batch of 20rds, no anealing ever, firing decent load of varget (about 45 grains) and a 168g bullet through an ar 10 and threw the brass out after 5 reloads, so 6 total firings, one was a M240. i had no indication of failure, just figured i better not push my luck


It is tough stuff

 

[Load Master]

I guess I was somewhat surprised and a little disappointed that none of my reloading manuals address annealing. It is as if it doesn't exist. Any ideas on why they avoid the subject? Most of the reloading manuals spend a fair amount of time on case head separations and how to detect it.

 

[dh1633pm]

I don't run dirty brass through my dies. Cleaning a second time isn't really a waste of time, its just to remove the lube. I have processed 1000's of LC 7.62 brass through my Co-Ax press. Its done a little at a time.

First the brass can be pretty dirty. With sand and other foreign objects and sometimes just plain dirty.
I remove the primers with a decapping die and then do an initial cleaning. The initial clean is to get the gunk out of the brass.
All cleaning is done wet with pins. Dry them in the oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes. In the summer, its out on the deck in the sun.
I have three dies for resizing. Lee, C&H and an RCBS small base.
Next step is to resize. I setup two presses with the Co-Ax doing the most and a C&H Press also in action.
Clean them again
Each and every round is then placed on a Wilson Gauge. Those not passing are rejected and run through the small base.
Then each is measured. Those needing trimming are placed in the reject pile and those that don't proceed to the next step.
The rejects are trimmed and then a champher tool is used to clean up the edges.
They are then placed back with the ones that didn't need trimming.
Next step is the dillon super swager to fix the primer pockets.
They are then placed into bags and marked as processed and ready to reload.

When I need them for loading, I always have a big supply. I don't sit there and do them all at once. I do a little every day until the big project is done incremental steps.

I don't anneal until I have fired them myself the first time.

 

[Load Master]

I don't run dirty brass through my dies. Cleaning a second time isn't really a waste of time, its just to remove the lube. I have processed 1000's of LC 7.62 brass through my Co-Ax press. Its done a little at a time.

First the brass can be pretty dirty. With sand and other foreign objects and sometimes just plain dirty.
I remove the primers with a decapping die and then do an initial cleaning. The initial clean is to get the gunk out of the brass.
All cleaning is done wet with pins. Dry them in the oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes. In the summer, its out on the deck in the sun.
I have three dies for resizing. Lee, C&H and an RCBS small base.
Next step is to resize. I setup two presses with the Co-Ax doing the most and a C&H Press also in action.
Clean them again
Each and every round is then placed on a Wilson Gauge. Those not passing are rejected and run through the small base.
Then each is measured. Those needing trimming are placed in the reject pile and those that don't proceed to the next step.
The rejects are trimmed and then a champher tool is used to clean up the edges.
They are then placed back with the ones that didn't need trimming.
Next step is the dillon super swager to fix the primer pockets.
They are then placed into bags and marked as processed and ready to reload.

When I need them for loading, I always have a big supply. I don't sit there and do them all at once. I do a little every day until the big project is done incremental steps.

I don't anneal until I have fired them myself the first time.

Thanks for sharing your process. This is close to what I am doing. The only difference, I use the case gauge to tell me if the case needs to be trimmed. I find it fast and accurate. If the case, after sizing has the case neck protrude past the gauge it goes into the trim box.

What does your annealing process consist of?

 

[Wildfire]

Post #9 and #11 say it right. Annealing brass that has not been fired in your rifle is sort of a waste of time if at the least not resizing to spec.
I clean before and after also. I completely wore out a set of dies not doing so. They were scratched beyond repair. But then, this is who some of us have to learn the hard way. And yes it can matter what you want it for. Mine went through a Rem. 700 PSS only. I wanted exact rounds and perfect specs. It all paid off with pretty much so one hole groups at 100 yards. I also do the same thing for 2 rifles {Rem 700s in .223}. These are long range P-dog guns and I wanted tight litle holes instead of groups. At that point it all matters. Tossing groups from autos may not matter as much to some. It can be hard to get the same accuracy from brand new brass at the first loading. The second loading being fire formed usually shoots better. No matter, clean just always seemed better in my book. When doing a lot of cases 1633 seems to have it figured out.

 

[dh1633pm]

I have a Lyman Gauge I use for length. I have found it faster than the case gauge. But I am aware that the case gauge can also measure for length. Thanks for the mention of that. Its another good use of a tool.