Want to start annealing brass

[valleyforge.1777]

Want to start annealing brass

I have been reloading for a long time, but I have never annealed my brass. I have a decent amount of fired brass for 223, 30-30, 270 Win, and 7.7x58 Japanese. The 223 brass has been loaded and reloaded several times. I want to start annealing to get more reloading life and hopefully more consistency/accuracy from my loaded ammo. In particular, I have read that 30-30 brass has a very short reloading life (2-3 reloads) unless one anneals.

I think I will get the Annealeez device.

I have gotten close to getting into annealing brass a few times and always hesitate to go ahead and get the annealer. I am afraid of over-annealing the brass and ruining it. I just can’t get past that mental block. Is it actually possible to do this right and not ruin the brass?

Also, I don’t know where I would do this. My reloading room is a room off the den, inside the house. Sort of a den off the den, if that makes sense. Where do you guys do your annealing? Outside? In the garage? In the basement? Would there be any problem with annealing in a room off a den? I’m thinking about would there be a problem with CO2 or other gases from the propane nozzle flame, and are there any dangerous gases released from the brass itself? I assume there are traces of lead that get vaporized when the brass is annealed. Would doing this in a garage be OK? I think if I try to do this outside, particularly in cooler weather it would not really work.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

 

[EricBu]

I use the anealeze. I do it in my reloading room, but obviously I put up all my flammables first, and I have a separate work bench from the loading bench. It's not a dangerous device as long as you aren't stupid, and mind where you set it, and keep a clear area around it. There are better devices out there, but they cost more, or aren't as fast. There are lots of videos out there to help you learn where the flame needs to be adjusted and such. It takes a bit of practice to get it right, so have some sacrificial brass..don't start out with your good stuff! And I start every session with crap brass too, before I start running my good stuff through.

Buy a bottle of Tempilaq, 24423 750 degrees. It's cheap on Amazon. Use that to teach yourself how hot/long to anneal the brass, once you get the hang of it, you don't really need it so much, but it's good to use now and then to make sure you're staying dialed in. It doesn't store well, but the same company makes a thinner specifically for it, so you can keep it around a lot longer if you also have the thinner.

 

[Blue68f100]

Yes you can anneal without over doing it. The key is start off with a shorter time and/or lower heat, then work your way up. I used old scrp brass to setup the machine. Use Temp-Lac to determine if your getting the brass hot enough. Most think you need to get it real hot, this is not the case. With propane it's just before the color change in the flame. I do mine in the (climate controlled) shop, propane gas burns clean. You have to be ware of wind current moving the flame around.

Garage will work fine, just make sure your away from combustibles, the same can be said for ding it inside.

 

[Cemetery21]

I've done thousands inside - a 600 square foot room over the garage. I clean the brass really well before annealing - you can see the heat line travel down past the shoulder in good light. Same as above - set the flame/time so the brass drops just before flame turns yellow.
On my old 223 and 223AI brass it cut the neck splits from 15-20% to zero.

This article helped me a lot getting started: https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[Walkalong]

If your .30-30 brass is failing after 3 reloads you have another issue, but yes, in general, annealing will help case life. That said, I get 8 to 12 plus firings out of range .223 pickups with out annealing, and then failure is only the primer pockets loosening up.

 

[FROGO207]

When your brass is cheap and plentiful I don't bother with the extra steps of annealing/quenching. Things like match brass or 303 BRIT, 7.62X54, and such I anneal to save my time on prep or buying more of the expensive stuff.

ETA I use my lead pot, a leather glove with fingers cut off, and bucket of cold water to anneal.

 

[Dale Alan]

I use the anealeze. I do it in my reloading room, but obviously I put up all my flammables first, and I have a separate work bench from the loading bench. It's not a dangerous device as long as you aren't stupid, and mind where you set it, and keep a clear area around it. There are better devices out there, but they cost more, or aren't as fast. There are lots of videos out there to help you learn where the flame needs to be adjusted and such. It takes a bit of practice to get it right, so have some sacrificial brass..don't start out with your good stuff! And I start every session with crap brass too, before I start running my good stuff through.

Buy a bottle of Tempilaq, 24423 750 degrees. It's cheap on Amazon. Use that to teach yourself how hot/long to anneal the brass, once you get the hang of it, you don't really need it so much, but it's good to use now and then to make sure you're staying dialed in. It doesn't store well, but the same company makes a thinner specifically for it, so you can keep it around a lot longer if you also have the thinner.

I agree with this 100 percent . They are easy to operate after just a little experience . Tempilaq is a great teacher, takes all of the guess work out of it . After awhile you use it more like you use a backup scale or test weight , just to ease your mind . I especially like it for necking up/down and loading cast .

 

[Kaldor]

Annealeez is a great machine. As others have suggested, get some Tempilaq when you start out. After awhile you'll stop using it, as you'll be able to see the results you want without it.

For me it wasn't case life that dictated I started annealing, it was the neck tension consistency that was more important. More consistent from reload to reload equals better accuracy. Case neck life was just a positive side effect for me.

 

[EricBu]

Annealeez is a great machine. As others have suggested, get some Tempilaq when you start out. After awhile you'll stop using it, as you'll be able to see the results you want without it.

For me it wasn't case life that dictated I started annealing, it was the neck tension consistency that was more important. More consistent from reload to reload equals better accuracy. Case neck life was just a positive side effect for me.

Spot on, exactly why I got it. The consistent neck tension is a game changer.

 

[Demi-human]

A rose by any other name certainly would smell just as sweet.
I like the performance of my Annealeez, but I wish it were called nearly anything else.

I anneal my brass where ever is convenient. The kitchen right after the drying, the basement when I need to be quiet, the garage when I want some natural light. I don’t bump the dial, and the thirty or Fourty degree ambient temperature swing doesn’t affect the outcome of a thousand degree torch.
I also recommend an adapter and a twenty pound cylinder for long runs, to keep the torch pressure even.

There is more soot coming out of a scented candle than would be coming from the torch flame. The lead residue wouldn’t be vaporized if it was totally cleaned off first.
(Wet tumbling… Come to the bright side… it’s never too clean!… Muhahahahaaa!)

 

[lordpaxman]

I’m still using the spinning socket guess-at-the-color method, but I don’t have a high volume yet. Some have mentioned 750 degree Tempilaq, do you paint that on the inside of the case mouth and wait for it to melt? Other forum entries mention the Tempilstik and touching that to the case, when it melts, or “writes”, it’s at temp. Just asking if anyone has preferences?

 

[jmorris]

I’m thinking about would there be a problem with CO2 or other gases from the propane nozzle flame,

Lots of homes have gas stove tops.


Using propane, I find the flame color to be the best indicator when setting up a machine.

 

[gifbohane]

Valley Forge- I am exactly where you are on annealing. I have gone onto their site and progressed all the way to "Pay" and then X'd out. It they would have run a sale of just $5 off I would have bought one.

But I saw Walkalong's post and if I got 10 to 12 firings out of what I have it would be a lifetime supply.....without annealing.

 

[Blue68f100]

I’m still using the spinning socket guess-at-the-color method, but I don’t have a high volume yet. Some have mentioned 750 degree Tempilaq, do you paint that on the inside of the case mouth and wait for it to melt? Other forum entries mention the Tempilstik and touching that to the case, when it melts, or “writes”, it’s at temp. Just asking if anyone has preferences?

You put on the inside of the necks. You want to know the temp made it all the way through. It has a dull color when first applied and dried. Once it reaches temp it goes to looking wet/glossy.

 

[Dale Alan]

I’m thinking about would there be a problem with CO2 or other gases from the propane nozzle flame, and are there any dangerous gases released from the brass itself?

Unless you are in a tightly sealed small room I would not worry too much . I have never had a censor go off , but then again my house is 137 years old...I worry more about the draught messing with my flame temp .

 

[NMexJim]

Overbored cartridges such as in the list below and from the article What is an “Overbore” Cartridge? Let’s Look at Some Numbers… « Daily Bulletin (accurateshooter.com) benefit the most from annealing. You may want to try and find the reload number where your cartridges would start to need some annealing. Like gif says above, you may find you don't need to. I don't anneal 5.56 for instance and have not found a need to anneal .308.




You might want to use the spinning method of annealing like lordpaxman until you decide if you need a more complicated and expensive setup. See this video. ANNEALING BRASS (CHEAP & EASY WAY) - Bing video. I've used this for years w/o issue.

I've got a number of .243 rifles and all cases need annealing around 5 reloads. That's at max. If I go much past that, I get hard bolt lift.

 

[Varminterror]

What would overbore ratio have to do with annealing?

Absolutely nothing, in my personal experience. Annealing is a means of returning brass to a repeatable, softened state, as a method of influencing neck tension consistency... that has far more to do with the demands of the application and the working done to the case neck than the case capacity.

 

[Demi-human]

that has far more to do with the demands of the application and the working done to the case neck than the case capacity.

I agree. Many of the most used benchrest/ target cartridges are in the top area of the chart. I’d wager that just the number of shooters annealing 223REM would tilt the scales towards the “non-overbore” cartridges as to how many cases are actually annealed by reloaders per year.

How well the case is sized to the rifle chamber, and how much it is work during the prep cycle, will affect how much annealing would help in a specific instance.

But it’s so easy, why not do them all, I say. And do!

 

[jmorris]

But it’s so easy, why not do them all, I say.

Some methods I have seen implemented likely do more harm than good, that would be one reason to not do them all.

Makes me wonder how many people anneal and have never done any testing using an unaltered control group vs the altered group (another good reason). Or is it like a kid putting loud exhaust on his car and “it has to be” faster, without any empirical evidence.

This is a good read on the subject.

https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[IALoder]

I'm in the same boat as you, I'm looking at giving annealing a go with the annealeez as well. There is some very helpful posts here, thanks guys! Sorry I have nothing to add to the conversation here other than a thanks!

 

[Dale Alan]

I have annealed using many different methods . I find the anneleez to be a great product for the money . Once you learn the process it is very simple to set up , Just yesterday I prepped four 6 x 45mm with Tempilaq to tweak my settings , it only took two before I was set . After the initial 5 minutes to set up it took another10 minutes +/- to run nearly 200 cases That being said, I think the moment I had 100 percent confidence in my annealing was the first time I used Tempilaq ...Tempilaq is a great teacher , I will admit that I doubt I ever got my brass hot enough for a uniform anneal on all brass before I used Tempilaq .

 

[GHinNH]

Annealing is absolutely worthwhile, to what extent needs to be determined individually.
Knowing what I do, I anneal all rifle cases. Every time a case is fired or re-sized it gets work hardened the same way a coat hanger will break when bent repeatedly. Same thing happens to cases.

Brass is primarily made of copper and zinc, the melting point of zinc is 787F so if brass is overheated for a prolonged time the zinc content will gas off and that is what causes harm to the brass. It would take making the neck glow brightly a long time to show signs of deterioration with black flakes of oxidation forming.

It's really not difficult to do, and also not particularly easy to mess it up as long as some care and consistency is maintained.
I made this machine some time ago as a fun little project after watching YT vids of similar ones and I've refined the annealing process, but I want to make some form of case feeder next to eliminate some handling.