.308 Winchester head stamps.

[usmc0811]

I just sorted some .308 brass that I have by head stamp markings. Here is what I have. Anyone have the good ,bad or ugly on any of these head stamps? Ones that are best or ones to avoid? I'm new to rifle reloading and could use any insight on this. I'll soon trim to a uniform length and load keeping brass separated by head stamp for the best quality ammo I can make, or am I overthinking this and should just load without bothering to separate?

 

[AJC1]

By separating you have already done the big part by trying to equalize volume based on different materials. I weight sort next looking for those way out of the group. I often find one or two that are three or four grains off the mean of the group. If they are very light you have more volume than the rest. If they are heavy you will have less volume and more pressure from the same powder charge.

 

[Ru4real]

I just sorted some .308 brass that I have by head stamp markings. Here is what I have. Anyone have the good ,bad or ugly on any of these head stamps? Ones that are best or ones to avoid? I'm new to rifle reloading and could use any insight on this. I'll soon trim to a uniform length and load keeping brass separated by head stamp for the best quality ammo I can make, or am I overthinking this and should just load without bothering to separate?View attachment 994294

I went through the same learnings when I started. Separating 45 ACP brass, lovingly making each case perfect, same length, uniform all the primer pockets, tumble to shiny, wipe down completed handloads. Get upset when I lost cases in the grass. It was work!

I eventually learned that I was the result of my bigger than wanted groups, not my guns or handloads. But each person must go through their own learning, so I applaud your efforts!

If I’m making bench rest quality ammo, I do exactly what you are doing, but this is pretty seldom these days, for me.

 

[Pat Riot]

It depends on what you plan to do with the ammo.
Like @Ru4real said, when I first started out I would sort, weigh, measure, trim etc...
A reloader friend of mine dropped by and asked what I was up to and I responded “putting rounds together for my Garand.” I have a Garand chambered in .308.
He explained that weighing, sorting, etc was all great if I were putting together Match Grade or hunting ammo but for general Target practice and plinking I was going way overboard.

He also reminded me that 7.62x51 brass has thicker walls than .308 and when loaded to high or max pressures the 7.62 brass might cause over pressures because there is lesser volume in the case. You should definitely bear that in mind.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

So USMC0811 ... there are a couple of ways to look at it. What are you going to-do with it?

If you're planning on running it through an AR platform of some sort, an AR 10 or SIG 716 or and HK or something like that, that's one thing and you may want to stick to strictly milspec brass for that but that is not always necessary.

And then you have your bolties ... where accuracy is paramount especially depending upon what you are trying to accomplish. A 200 yard hunting rifle or an 800 meter gong ringer or something inbetween like a 500 meter paper puncher?

Brass thickness definitely matters - as mentioned above.

I'm pretty finicky, still to this day, about how I load for my two bolties whereas I'll do large scale mass runs when I luck-upon a few buckets of milsurp 7.62x51 that I intend to run (or stockpile) through or for my 716s or one of my M1As etc. Which, there again, I load differently for one of the M1As than the others because it is more of a match quality M21 type build,

So I guess the bottom line is ... what's it for? What specific purpose do you have in mind?

If I get my hands on once fired Nosler, Hornady Match or Starline .308 brass then that is going in my special can for my special stick and my 500 meter line work. If I get a couple of buckets of milsurp FC or even Radway Green brass ... that's going to be dealt with differently starting with swaging or decrimping after decapping and then, from there, it gets easier.

Winchester, R*P, etc., that brass goes in my hunting bucket brass a lot of times for me to work up hunting loads with.

It just all depends. .308 and 7.62x51 they are my funnest (sic) loads to reload and shoot. Much like some of the younger guys these days are into the 6.5 stuff ... many of us old-timers still love the 30 cal the best. I'm the same way when it comes to how I load 30-06 for my bolties vs my Garands.

Either way, you're doing the right thing by separating your brass. Bag it in baggies and put it all in a box and work-up loads small batches at a time for your specific needs until you find your sweet spot.

Welcome to the club and have fun with it. Be crazy anal in the beginning, double-check everything you do in the beginning ... it'll pay-off in the long run.

 

[usmc0811]

I went through the same learnings when I started. Separating 45 ACP brass, lovingly making each case perfect, same length, uniform all the primer pockets, tumble to shiny, wipe down completed handloads. Get upset when I lost cases in the grass. It was work!

I eventually learned that I was the result of my bigger than wanted groups, not my guns or handloads. But each person must go through their own learning, so I applaud your efforts!

If I’m making bench rest quality ammo, I do exactly what you are doing, but this is pretty seldom these days, for me.

Yes my pistol brass I never bother doing this. But for rifle I think I just might continue to get the best loads possible. Also I'm not loading nearly as much as I do pistol ammo so it won't be too time consuming.

 

[usmc0811]

So USMC0811 ... there are a couple of ways to look at it. What are you going to-do with it?

If you're planning on running it through an AR platform of some sort, an AR 10 or SIG 716 or and HK or something like that, that's one thing and you may want to stick to strictly milspec brass for that but that is not always necessary.

And then you have your bolties ... where accuracy is paramount especially depending upon what you are trying to accomplish. A 200 yard hunting rifle or an 800 meter gong ringer or something inbetween like a 500 meter paper puncher?

Brass thickness definitely matters - as mentioned above.

I'm pretty finicky, still to this day, about how I load for my two bolties whereas I'll do large scale mass runs when I luck-upon a few buckets of milsurp 7.62x51 that I intend to run (or stockpile) through or for my 716s or one of my M1As etc. Which, there again, I load differently for one of the M1As than the others because it is more of a match quality M21 type build,

So I guess the bottom line is ... what's it for? What specific purpose do you have in mind?

If I get my hands on once fired Nosler, Hornady Match or Starline .308 brass then that is going in my special can for my special stick and my 500 meter line work. If I get a couple of buckets of milsurp FC or even Radway Green brass ... that's going to be dealt with differently starting with swaging or decrimping after decapping and then, from there, it gets easier.

Winchester, R*P, etc., that brass goes in my hunting bucket brass a lot of times for me to work up hunting loads with.

It just all depends. .308 and 7.62x51 they are my funnest (sic) loads to reload and shoot. Much like some of the younger guys these days are into the 6.5 stuff ... many of us old-timers still love the 30 cal the best. I'm the same way when it comes to how I load 30-06 for my bolties vs my Garands.

Either way, you're doing the right thing by separating your brass. Bag it in baggies and put it all in a box and work-up loads small batches at a time for your specific needs until you find your sweet spot.

Welcome to the club and have fun with it. Be crazy anal in the beginning, double-check everything you do in the beginning ... it'll pay-off in the long run.

Thank you for your advice. My rounds will be mainly used for shooting at 100 yards and hunting white tail deer within 100 yards. I'm thinking about getting a thompson center encore or a bolt gun.

 

[AJC1]

If your hunting that nickle is great for field work. It does not corrode and cleans up easy.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Thank you for your advice. My rounds will be mainly used for shooting at 100 yards and hunting white tail deer within 100 yards. I'm thinking about getting a thompson center encore or a bolt gun.

You can't go wrong with a good Savage straight out of the box ... Best bolty out there value for the money, best bang for your buck ... a Savage 110 in .308 will last you a lifetime and do whatever you need it to-do if you take care of it. Best straight out of the box accuracy of any stock rifle IMHO and very affordable.

Just a fwiw. If you live near and Sportsman's Warehouse or even a Cabella's or Bass Pro they usually have some great deals going on Savage Rifles.

Once you get yourself a good bolty then you get yourself a good levergun then an AR and then .... well, it'll become an obsession by then.

There is a basic must have list ....

A good bolty in .308
A levergun and matching wheel gun in 45 Colt or 44 Mag or 38/357 Mag.
A reliable semi auto pistol in your favorite caliber
A 22LR rifle of choice
Last but not least a good 12 gauge pump

And you can reload for everything on that list except 22LR and some are even claiming that you can reload 22LR these days.

You're off to a good start. Saving and scrounging for every piece of brass is a good start ... even brass that you may not own a platform-for, that brass becomes tradable. Just the other day I traded several hundred pieces of 270 brass for 165 pieces of once fired 30 Carbine brass and over 300 once fired pieces of 44 mag brass. It was a fair trade for me.

Point being ... save and sort all the brass you can get your hands on friend. Bag it and stash what you don't use away like a precious metal ... because, these days, it is.

 

[Howa 9700]

If your hunting that nickle is great for field work. It does not corrode and cleans up easy.

So during a recent range run, opened a box of Federal ammo to discover it was nickle plated brass.

Does this get treated (and loaded) same as regular brass?

 

[Ironicaintit]

So during a recent range run, opened a box of Federal ammo to discover it was nickle plated brass.

Does this get treated (and loaded) same as regular brass?

Yes it loads the same. Some say you’ll get fewer loads out of those cases before they fail, but loading them is the same as plain brass.

I separate all my brass and keep them all segregated, but more for OCD than anything.

One point mentioned and is worth repeating;
7.62 brass does indeed have less internal capacity than commercial 308 brass, and so loads for them need to be worked up separately

 

[usmc0811]

Yes it loads the same. Some say you’ll get fewer loads out of those cases before they fail, but loading them is the same as plain brass.

I separate all my brass and keep them all segregated, but more for OCD than anything.

One point mentioned and is worth repeating;
7.62 brass does indeed have less internal capacity than commercial 308 brass, and so loads for them need to be worked up separately

I've been reloading pistol ammo for about 15 years now. I do
.40
.38/.357
.380
9mm
.45
.44 mag.
And cast for those calibers also. Just now getting into reloading rifle. I have over 500 pieces of.308 brass clean and ready to go, just don't have a rifle yet lol but my buddy has a few that I can use for hunting and target until I get one.

 

[HowardC]

Couple comments on thread topics in general:

Learned the hard way that Hornady 308 Win has crimped-in primers.(personally, and according to Hornady tech). Not worth the effort (so far) with availability of 308 brass. I also learned from a Hornady tech reply that their "match" brass is no different than their regular 308 brass, just the headstamps are different. And, they reportedly discontinued the 'match' headstamping in about 2014. FWIW....

For both 308 reloading and making other cartridges, I found not much difference in 308 brass, except Rem 308 brass had about 50% split necks on necking down to 260 compared to Win or Fed (none) in a sample of 30 cases. OTOH, new Rem 260 brass, (only available then) has lasted through 9 (one box-store bought), and 3-6 reloadings when fireformed to 260 AI. None have been annealed, although are just neck sized.

I have worked with some nickel plated brass. When I necked some down to 260, the necks developed a 'checkered' appearance, making me wonder what it would do to the dies. I have separate dies for 3006 and 300 Win nickel brass, but don't load it much, so far.

I separate cases by brand, and isolate for each rifle, neck sizing, with partial FL sizing as needed to bump shoulders. Obviously, range brass gets FL sizing the first time. Beyond trimming, I don't do much else. I clean as needed in corn cob or walnut vibration. I like storing dedicated, working brass in clear poly XPLOR boxes. Unprocessed brass just lives in plastic bags.

-West out

 

[bluejay75]

I think the FC is the best of what you have there. 75% of my 308 reloads are in FC. It is soft and if youre running them hard youre only getting 2-3 firings. But the thing that makes them not so great makes them accurate. It is a softer brass and lends well to low SDs and consistent loads. I also like that it does not have a ton of case capacity. The CBC, 7.62x51, and maybe the PMC can be shot together as they have close to the same case capacity.

 

[bluejay75]

You can't go wrong with a good Savage straight out of the box ... Best bolty out there value for the money, best bang for your buck ... a Savage 110 in .308 will last you a lifetime and do whatever you need it to-do if you take care of it. Best straight out of the box accuracy of any stock rifle IMHO and very affordable.

Just a fwiw. If you live near and Sportsman's Warehouse or even a Cabella's or Bass Pro they usually have some great deals going on Savage Rifles.

Once you get yourself a good bolty then you get yourself a good levergun then an AR and then .... well, it'll become an obsession by then.

There is a basic must have list ....

A good bolty in .308
A levergun and matching wheel gun in 45 Colt or 44 Mag or 38/357 Mag.
A reliable semi auto pistol in your favorite caliber
A 22LR rifle of choice
Last but not least a good 12 gauge pump

And you can reload for everything on that list except 22LR and some are even claiming that you can reload 22LR these days.

You're off to a good start. Saving and scrounging for every piece of brass is a good start ... even brass that you may not own a platform-for, that brass becomes tradable. Just the other day I traded several hundred pieces of 270 brass for 165 pieces of once fired 30 Carbine brass and over 300 once fired pieces of 44 mag brass. It was a fair trade for me.

Point being ... save and sort all the brass you can get your hands on friend. Bag it and stash what you don't use away like a precious metal ... because, these days, it is.

And if you tighten the headspace on the Savage and bed the stock it will shoot like a custom gun.

 

[usmc0811]

I think the FC is the best of what you have there. 75% of my 308 reloads are in FC. It is soft and if youre running them hard youre only getting 2-3 firings. But the thing that makes them not so great makes them accurate. It is a softer brass and lends well to low SDs and consistent loads. I also like that it does not have a ton of case capacity. The CBC, 7.62x51, and maybe the PMC can be shot together as they have close to the same case capacity.

Thank you. What is the best way to find out what the case capacity is? Is there a certain technique?

 

[jmr40]

I have several hundred pieces each of Hornady, Winchester, Remington, and military surplus. More Hornady than any other. I also have about 100 pieces of Nosler. I used to have some Federal, but never had much and no longer use it.

Based on past experience I can use the same load data with all of it except the military brass and the Federal brass. I still keep it separate and load in batches with the same brass. I may load up 100 rounds of 155 gr target loads in Hornady brass and 50 rounds of 168 gr hunting loads in the Winchester brass etc.

There is enough difference in the Federal and military brass that I have to work up different loads. Both of those have less case capacity and require lower powder charges to get the same speeds. That is neither good nor bad, just different, but that is the reason I stopped using Federal. I have a butt load of military brass that I've accumulated over the years but I generally only use it for mid range plinking loads where accuracy or speed isn't a priority.

I don't think it makes nearly as much difference WHICH brass. But to be consistent

 

[bluejay75]

Thank you. What is the best way to find out what the case capacity is? Is there a certain technique?

Fill a case with powder to the neck of the case. Tap the case 4-5 times to settle the powder and make sure its all the way up to the base of the neck. Use your funnel and move that powder charge from case to case making sure you settle it. You now have a point at which to compare. There are other ways, but this is my low tech non scientific way. I want a little compression on most of my loads. So cases with less case capacity lets me know I can get there most times.

jmr40 is on to something though. I just ran into trouble yesterday with my method. 46 grains of Varget seats a 155 Scenar with a little compression. 46.3 compressed to the point that it deformed my bullet. 46.6 would not seat to the target depth. And wouldnt you know...46.6 shot a .31 inch group. I had some Starline and ran into the same problem. All three of the loads above were less than .60 inches so I settled on 46 grains as my next seasons hunting load.

 

[lordpaxman]

Some of your cases my have crimped primers, like the NATO cases. They’re easy to deal with if you want to reload them, and usually the military brass is a bit thicker resulting in less case volume.
Here’s another way to measure case volume:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/most-accurate-way-to-measure-case-volume.223567/
I generally sort rifle brass by headstamp but that’s because the volume is low and I’ll usually be loading on a SS press. At 100 yards you probably won’t notice any difference in a specific load across any of the brass but make sure if you’re at max load you take case volume into account.
The other aspect of developing a load is a methodology like a ladder or OCW, but then again at 100 yards a few shots on paper will tell a lot. Good luck.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Thank you. What is the best way to find out what the case capacity is? Is there a certain technique?

Most of us, especially in the beginning, use the water fill and measure method. One caveat I have discovered over the years is to dump the cases in a plastic water bottle first, with some dish soap and water, and shake the heck out of them. You might even throw some steel pins in there to make sure the insides of the cases are good and clean.

Why?

Because that removes the possibility of residue being inside the case before you take your water volume measurements. That way you ensure that all are the same ... and make sure not to use dented cases.

But when you get into all of that you're getting into the minutiae of the craft. That's why most people start on pistol cases, straight walled cases, and work up the learning curve from there.

I've known a couple of guys who tried to start with bottlenecked cases and they ended-up getting really frustrated and quitting.

 

[usmc0811]

Thanks for the information. I have been reloading multiple calibers for pistols for about 15 years so have a decent understand of that process. Just now getting into rifle calibers. Can't wait this will be fun. I already have hundreds if not a thousand or two of .308 & .223/.556 brass but don't yet have a rifle for either of those calibers lol. Looking for either a .308 bolt rifle or one of them Thompson center encores in .308.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

One last thing, at least for the time-being, that I was thinking about.

You don't always have-to, nor will you want-to, necessarily trim a case (especially in batches) before you begin working-up a load.

Here's why.

Decide on the projectile you are going to use (and this especially holds true with 5.56 for instance but sometimes with some of the 30s) and then check your COAL against your load data ... is the projectile you are planning on using cannelured? If so do a dry run and see what depth you'll need that brass to reach in order to lip your crimp solidly in the cannelure. If the neck is too long then you'll need to trim and rim ... if too short then you've got a problem, if just right then you're Goldilocks.

Now the cannelure issue does not come into play too often in 30 cal (unless you occasionally run into it when working up some M21 milspec loads or something) ... but the practice of doing a dry run on seating depth is a good one when precision reloading BEFORE you trim a bowl full of brass.

I'm probably going to draw some wicked chaff for what I am about to type here friend ... but I wouldn't spend the money on a Thompson unless you're talking about one of their new bolties (you're talking about the Center Encore). I get Thompsons for some of the wildcat stuff and I was shooting them back in the 70s (glorified accuratized pistols with awesome grips)... but what you want, for .308, is a good bolty for what you apparently want to accomplish.

Consider this ... unless you and I are talking about two different beasts.

Look in most reloading manuals and you'll notice something in quite a few. You'll see data for "Rifles" and "Pistols" and even "Cowboy" ... and then you'll see "Thompsons." There's a reason for that. Short barrels, recoil considerations, burn rates, pressure curves ... why limit yourself to those margins?

And I even get the single shot Pro Hunter series, I do. One shot one kill etc., I get it but ...

Get yourself a good bolt gun for .308 and you'll never regret it. Preferably magazine fed. The cartridge was designed for bolt guns and milspec semi autos ... not single shot pistols with longer barrels.

Anyways, pardon me overstepping my boundaries and if I offended in any way ... but you've got all that beautiful .308 and x51 brass, make the most of it. It's made for hunting and paper punching and defending your property and it is the absolute finest all-around cartridge ever necked down from 30-06 brass ... make the most of it friend.

If you really wanna do Thompson Encore in a bad way look at 7mm Mag or 300 Win Mag or even 300 SWM. Now you're talking a reason to buy a Thompson Pro Hunter.

You can get a Savage 110 or any number of solid well built bolties (Mossberg now makes a really good one) for less money than you'll pay for the Thompson.

Anyways, sorry for the LWR. Just caught myself ... reads as if I am advising my Son. Mea culpa

/advice rant off

 

[AJC1]

One last thing, at least for the time-being, that I was thinking about.

You don't always have-to, nor will you want-to, necessarily trim a case (especially in batches) before you begin working-up a load.

Here's why.

Decide on the projectile you are going to use (and this especially holds true with 5.56 for instance but sometimes with some of the 30s) and then check your COAL against your load data ... is the projectile you are planning on using cannelured? If so do a dry run and see what depth you'll need that brass to reach in order to lip your crimp solidly in the cannelure. If the neck is too long then you'll need to trim and rim ... if too short then you've got a problem, if just right then you're Goldilocks.

Now the cannelure issue does not come into play too often in 30 cal (unless you occasionally run into it when working up some M21 milspec loads or something) ... but the practice of doing a dry run on seating depth is a good one when precision reloading BEFORE you trim a bowl full of brass.

I'm probably going to draw some wicked chaff for what I am about to type here friend ... but I wouldn't spend the money on a Thompson unless you're talking about one of their new bolties (you're talking about the Center Encore). I get Thompsons for some of the wildcat stuff and I was shooting them back in the 70s (glorified accuratized pistols with awesome grips)... but what you want, for .308, is a good bolty for what you apparently want to accomplish.

Consider this ... unless you and I are talking about two different beasts.

Look in most reloading manuals and you'll notice something in quite a few. You'll see data for "Rifles" and "Pistols" and even "Cowboy" ... and then you'll see "Thompsons." There's a reason for that. Short barrels, recoil considerations, burn rates, pressure curves ... why limit yourself to those margins?

And I even get the single shot Pro Hunter series, I do. One shot one kill etc., I get it but ...

Get yourself a good bolt gun for .308 and you'll never regret it. Preferably magazine fed. The cartridge was designed for bolt guns and milspec semi autos ... not single shot pistols with longer barrels.

Anyways, pardon me overstepping my boundaries and if I offended in any way ... but you've got all that beautiful .308 and x51 brass, make the most of it. It's made for hunting and paper punching and defending your property and it is the absolute finest all-around cartridge ever necked down from 30-06 brass ... make the most of it friend.

If you really wanna do Thompson Encore in a bad way look at 7mm Mag or 300 Win Mag or even 300 SWM. Now you're talking a reason to buy a Thompson Pro Hunter.

You can get a Savage 110 or any number of solid well built bolties (Mossberg now makes a really good one) for less money than you'll pay for the Thompson.

Anyways, sorry for the LWR. Just caught myself ... reads as if I am advising my Son. Mea culpa

/advice rant off

A ramage or a savage is a great way to go if your mechanical and detail oriented. The also have switch barrel guns if you have cash. 308 brass also makes other options if your crafty. 243. 7-08 and a few others.

 

[kalielkslayer]

For me, loading ammo for a bolt, or single shot
doesn’t make sense unless you have the gun to tailor it to. Different guns have deeper chambers. Loading to factory specs won’t get the most outta those guns.

For a semi-auto, that’s a different story in my opinion.

That’s why we try different powders, different seating depths, vary the volume of powder, different bullets.

My last bolt purchase (.243) resulted in my buying 2 boxes of 7 different bullets (700 bullets) from 65 grains to 105 grains, before I ever fired a shot out of it. Probably overkill but I figured it would take a minimum of 50 to work up a load leaving me the leftovers to build some rounds until I could find more of the same.

And the Savage recommendation i second. My last 3 bolt guns have been Savage 116s.