.32 acp reloading question
- Thread starter Shivahasagun
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Shivahasagun
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Thanks.
I'm going for quieter but reliable. 775 fps average would be fine. Mind you this is a 4.5 in barrel.
P Flados
Member
QL is not "load data", but is easy to configure for a specific application. I used 0.471" for bullet length. Please double check yours against this value as 32 ACP is very sensitive to seating depth changes.
Code:
Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .312, 78, RN - 0.471 long - Rimrock
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.984 inch = 24.99 mm
Barrel Length : 4.5 inch = 114.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon HP38
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-66.7 21 1.00 428 32 3151 704 59.7 1.315
-60.0 26 1.20 499 43 4033 929 66.2 1.155
-53.3 30 1.40 569 56 5043 1172 72.3 1.029
-46.7 34 1.60 638 71 6255 1426 77.8 0.927
-40.0 38 1.80 706 86 7682 1687 82.6 0.843
-33.3 43 2.00 772 103 9330 1947 86.8 0.772
-26.7 47 2.20 836 121 11208 2203 90.4 0.711
-20.0 51 2.40 899 140 13330 2449 93.4 0.656
-13.3 55 2.60 960 160 15709 2682 95.8 0.606
-06.7 60 2.80 1019 180 18363 2898 97.6 0.562
+00.0 64 3.00 1076 201 21312 3096 98.9 0.525 ! Near Maximum !Shivahasagun
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Thanks!
I measured a bullet. It was .478 in. long. They are .309 in dia. OAL cartridge length is the max at .984 in.
I loaded them with 2.0 gr of HP38 which as luck would have it is a .17 cc Lee dipper and that's what I used.
I had to because I had PROBLEMS!
The Lee powder-through die wasn't right. (I'm using a new Lee 3-die .32 acp set) I don't know if it's the die, the insert, or my set up. I tried adjusting my set up and it didn't help unless I backed it way off. This reduced the incidences of the die DESTROYING cases!
It would occasionally crush one, like a V poking into the mouth of the case.
When I tried to set up my Lee Drum the problem got worse! One time I noticed the plastic arm of the drum getting bent horribly and I'm surprised it did not snap. I don't understand how that could happen.
I pulled the insert inside the die that does the belling and put it up to the mouth of a case. Seemed a little tight but not by alot.
The Lee Powder Through die is marked ".32 Short L2". I guess they use this same die for .32 S&W (short). Perhaps the insert is not appropriate for .32 acp? Perhaps it would work with thinner, American .32 acp brass but not my thicker, Euro 7.65 mm brass?
I destroyed about ten cases but did manage to get 50 rounds loaded to test / chrono.
Shivahasagun
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Should I attempt to reduce the diameter of the expander insert or is there another that already exists that would work?
Lee's web site says when an expander insert is too big to put it in a drill, apply 320 grit sandpaper, and reduce it by .001-.002".
The expander insert is mild steel, yes?
Lee's web site says when an expander insert is too big to put it in a drill, apply 320 grit sandpaper, and reduce it by .001-.002".
The expander insert is mild steel, yes?
rfwobbly
Member
For my Model 81 Berretta I use....
• T&B 78gr RN polymer-coated lead bullets. These are 0.314" diameter. https://tbbullets.com/bullets/polymer-coated-handgun/32-caliber/
• VV N310 and AA No.2 almost exclusively after testing 5 or 6 other pistol powders. The blow-back operation really does better with faster burning powders.
• These seat just fine in StarLine, and several other European brands of brass at an OAL of 0.950"
And shooting from supported positions at a measured 30 feet, here's some of the results I got....
► The black bull on a TQ-2 measures 2.3 inches.
Hope this helps.
• T&B 78gr RN polymer-coated lead bullets. These are 0.314" diameter. https://tbbullets.com/bullets/polymer-coated-handgun/32-caliber/
• VV N310 and AA No.2 almost exclusively after testing 5 or 6 other pistol powders. The blow-back operation really does better with faster burning powders.
• These seat just fine in StarLine, and several other European brands of brass at an OAL of 0.950"
And shooting from supported positions at a measured 30 feet, here's some of the results I got....
► The black bull on a TQ-2 measures 2.3 inches.
Hope this helps.
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Shivahasagun
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For my Model 81 Berretta I use....
• T&B 78gr RN polymer-coated lead bullets. These are 0.314" diameter. https://tbbullets.com/bullets/polymer-coated-handgun/32-caliber/
• VV N310 and AA No.2 almost exclusively after testing 5 or 6 other pistol powders. The blow-back operation really does better with faster burning powders.
• These seat just fine in StarLine, and several other European brands of brass at an OAL of 0.950"
And shooting from supported positions at a measured 30 feet, here's some of the results I got....
► The black bull on a TQ-2 measures 2.3 inches.
Hope this helps.
That's pretty good!
I've found my 81BB/FS to be 15 yd guns.
By that I mean that's the furthest away I can normally keep a 4 inch group off-hand. The sights are small and radius short. At 25 yds my groups tend to be 5-8 inches. Enough for a "torso" hit.
That's in decent light. On a heavily overcast day or similar lighting condition I can barely see just the front sight and it's bright orange with that line of paint continued onto the slide.
I'm going to research reducing my expander insert.
Shivahasagun
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I fired about 35 rounds of my 7.65 mm reloads today. They worked! No malfunctions!
Accuracy was fine and they cycled my 81FS, locking the slide back when empty. Recoil was slightly milder than the mild Geco FMJ. Is it worth reloading .32 just for the slight reduction in recoil, especially when shooting suppressed?
Nah. Cheaper to shoot, though. IF you can find your cases among everything else on the ground. 9x19, .380, .32 acp...you can't tell them apart from 5 feet up. Or even less. I only recovered "3" cases. I fired my 35 reloads plus another 75 rounds or so. Drat. .25 acp cases are actually much easier to find.
7-round chronograph results:
Avg. 818 fps
High 856
Low 788
ES 68
SD 24
Reloading this won't be cheaper if I can't recover much brass. When I can it costs me about $8.50 / 50 vs $20 / 50 buying new. If I can find Euro cases for under 23 cents each I can break even.
Anyway, thanks for the help. My next focus is machining down the .32 acp expander plug to fit my 7.65 mm cases.
Accuracy was fine and they cycled my 81FS, locking the slide back when empty. Recoil was slightly milder than the mild Geco FMJ. Is it worth reloading .32 just for the slight reduction in recoil, especially when shooting suppressed?
Nah. Cheaper to shoot, though. IF you can find your cases among everything else on the ground. 9x19, .380, .32 acp...you can't tell them apart from 5 feet up. Or even less. I only recovered "3" cases. I fired my 35 reloads plus another 75 rounds or so. Drat. .25 acp cases are actually much easier to find.
7-round chronograph results:
Avg. 818 fps
High 856
Low 788
ES 68
SD 24
Reloading this won't be cheaper if I can't recover much brass. When I can it costs me about $8.50 / 50 vs $20 / 50 buying new. If I can find Euro cases for under 23 cents each I can break even.
Anyway, thanks for the help. My next focus is machining down the .32 acp expander plug to fit my 7.65 mm cases.
P Flados
Member
For the expander plug, I would start with just adding a little shallow angle bevel. Also pay attention to brass placement and any tilt in the shell holder. Getting brass to sit "straight up" in the shell holder can be hit or miss with 32 ACP. If a round is not fully inserted or is a little tilted and the expander does not have a bevel, catching and crushing happens. For my custom expander die assembly (I have a mini lathe), I have the die body machined with an ID just big enough and a generous entry bevel to get the case centered before reaching the expander plug.
As far as brass, my mixed headstamp 32 ACP brass was pretty bad as far as dimensional variances.
And thanks for the feedback on measured velocity. Your 818 fps is a little better than expected. With a corrected bullet length, QL shows 777 fps at 9561 psi. I would not be surprised if some of the rounds with higher velocities had thicker brass giving a reduced powder capacity and more break away friction.
Also, I feel your pain with brass loss. For my 380 ACP brass, I used a black sharpy to color in the groove just above the rim. It makes them much easier to spot on the floor of the range among all of the 9mm stuff. Sweeping off the area you expect them to collect before shooting your gun can also help.
As far as brass, my mixed headstamp 32 ACP brass was pretty bad as far as dimensional variances.
And thanks for the feedback on measured velocity. Your 818 fps is a little better than expected. With a corrected bullet length, QL shows 777 fps at 9561 psi. I would not be surprised if some of the rounds with higher velocities had thicker brass giving a reduced powder capacity and more break away friction.
Also, I feel your pain with brass loss. For my 380 ACP brass, I used a black sharpy to color in the groove just above the rim. It makes them much easier to spot on the floor of the range among all of the 9mm stuff. Sweeping off the area you expect them to collect before shooting your gun can also help.
Amen to that!
Shivahasagun
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My Lee expander plug measured .310" dia.
I worked on it with 150 grit sandpaper then 600 grit. It still measured .310" so apparently it's decent steel. I'm not sure how else to reduce it without making it out of round.
Oh well, at least it's polished.
I'm not aware of another insert that would do what I need.
I found a PMC case, unfired, and compared to the Geco. Wasn't hard to see the expander plug fit it better.
I took one of my .309 dia coated bullets and seated it into the PMC case. I could do this by hand, but not quite seat it all the way.
I put it in the press, seated it to .980", and crimped it harder than I was the Euro cases. The die is a taper, not a roll crimp. I pushed the bullet against metal several times pretty hard and remeasured. There was no change. I used a hammer to pull the bullet. It took three good whacks on concrete. About what I'd expect from a lead bullet. The bullet was not damaged by the crimping.
Maybe I should get a bag of Starline brass and load my .309 bullets in them with as much crimp as I dare?
Sure, i can try harder to recover brass from my Geco, Fiocchi, and S&B ammo, but that takes time.
Also, S&B brass may require an extra step because I've found CCI primers not wanting to seat. Geco brass was not uniform. Some pockets were very tight, others a bit easy. Not loving that brass, either.
As for the rim of this brass, the PMC and Starline have a design very similar to the Geco. The S&B and Fiocchi have the more classic 7.65 mm groove / rim shape.
The gun doesn't seem to care.
I'm going to order a bag or two of Starline .32 brass and load my .309 bullets in them.
I worked on it with 150 grit sandpaper then 600 grit. It still measured .310" so apparently it's decent steel. I'm not sure how else to reduce it without making it out of round.
Oh well, at least it's polished.
I'm not aware of another insert that would do what I need.
I found a PMC case, unfired, and compared to the Geco. Wasn't hard to see the expander plug fit it better.
I took one of my .309 dia coated bullets and seated it into the PMC case. I could do this by hand, but not quite seat it all the way.
I put it in the press, seated it to .980", and crimped it harder than I was the Euro cases. The die is a taper, not a roll crimp. I pushed the bullet against metal several times pretty hard and remeasured. There was no change. I used a hammer to pull the bullet. It took three good whacks on concrete. About what I'd expect from a lead bullet. The bullet was not damaged by the crimping.
Maybe I should get a bag of Starline brass and load my .309 bullets in them with as much crimp as I dare?
Sure, i can try harder to recover brass from my Geco, Fiocchi, and S&B ammo, but that takes time.
Also, S&B brass may require an extra step because I've found CCI primers not wanting to seat. Geco brass was not uniform. Some pockets were very tight, others a bit easy. Not loving that brass, either.
As for the rim of this brass, the PMC and Starline have a design very similar to the Geco. The S&B and Fiocchi have the more classic 7.65 mm groove / rim shape.
The gun doesn't seem to care.
I'm going to order a bag or two of Starline .32 brass and load my .309 bullets in them.
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Shivahasagun
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Ordered 300 rds of Starline .32 brass. Was on sale.
I'll collect 150 fired cases eventually to load the rest of the .309 bullets I have.
I'll collect 150 fired cases eventually to load the rest of the .309 bullets I have.
rfwobbly
Member
Notes for Dillon users starting to load 32ACP...
• Dillon has the correct size shell plate, but not the dies. They will send you Redding Dies at full price, which you can buy elsewhere discounted.
• On charges under 3.0gr you will also want the Extra-Small powder bar. However the only difference between Small and Extra-Small is that the V-notch is filled in. At a cost of $47 you can buy a LOT of epoxy to fill in that notch.
• Dillon has the correct size shell plate, but not the dies. They will send you Redding Dies at full price, which you can buy elsewhere discounted.
• On charges under 3.0gr you will also want the Extra-Small powder bar. However the only difference between Small and Extra-Small is that the V-notch is filled in. At a cost of $47 you can buy a LOT of epoxy to fill in that notch.
Shivahasagun
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I tried loading the new Starline brass and although it fit properly in the expander insert (which I beveled & polished) I still crushed a couple cases along with bad powder drops.
I was so teed-off!
The next I started over to figure out the problem. The casing didn't line up under the dies perfectly. This isn't new, but I think with this short, narrow case it's more of a problem.
I've loaded 9x19, .38 SC, .32 Long & Mag using the same press & Auto Drum.
After checking several things I narrowed it down to something very simple. The case seat.
I found rotating it to a certain spot put the case further inboard and under the die in that axis, and then pushing down on the seat just before the case entered the expander / powder through die, seems to have solved the problems!
I just loaded 20 that way and had no issues, it was moving right along!
2 grs HP38 and .9800 OAL.
I have noticed the thinner Starline brass and .309 bullets result in less than desirable tension. I can turn the bullets in the cases with my fingers often.
However, when I press or smack the bullets on metal, they do not slide into the case.
If you recall I originally bought these .309 bullets to go with my thick brass Euro cases but learned the Lee expander is sized for thin American brass. So I got thin, American brass and load these bullets in that.
Once I'm through these @425 bullets I have left I'll get .310 bullets next time. These are for my US-spec match grade Allegheny Arms barrel. (.308 bore)
I was so teed-off!
The next I started over to figure out the problem. The casing didn't line up under the dies perfectly. This isn't new, but I think with this short, narrow case it's more of a problem.
I've loaded 9x19, .38 SC, .32 Long & Mag using the same press & Auto Drum.
After checking several things I narrowed it down to something very simple. The case seat.
I found rotating it to a certain spot put the case further inboard and under the die in that axis, and then pushing down on the seat just before the case entered the expander / powder through die, seems to have solved the problems!
I just loaded 20 that way and had no issues, it was moving right along!
2 grs HP38 and .9800 OAL.
I have noticed the thinner Starline brass and .309 bullets result in less than desirable tension. I can turn the bullets in the cases with my fingers often.
However, when I press or smack the bullets on metal, they do not slide into the case.
If you recall I originally bought these .309 bullets to go with my thick brass Euro cases but learned the Lee expander is sized for thin American brass. So I got thin, American brass and load these bullets in that.
Once I'm through these @425 bullets I have left I'll get .310 bullets next time. These are for my US-spec match grade Allegheny Arms barrel. (.308 bore)
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Shivahasagun
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This doesn't seem right.
I must have meant .356 in for the M84 barrel and .357 for the 9x19.
Blue68f100
Member
If you have a drill that will hold the expander you have what is needed to reduce it. As long as the expander is spinning it will stay round. Use a steel backing for the sand paper. A file works good for this. Now the sand paper needs to be high quality made for steel wet/dry has a better backing. If you by chance have some diamond files they will work but may need to clean up with sand paper afterward depending on grit size.
Contact Lee and tell them the problem they may send you another one the right size.
I can do it for you if you Lee want take care of it. Just pm me for shipping address. I have a lathe at my disposal to do the work.
Question. Is you sizing die reducing the brass far enough to hold the bullet?
Shivahasagun
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I ended up using a couple grades of stone then polishing rouge just to make more bevel. Seems to have helped.
Thanks for the advice and I can call Lee or send an email about a smaller diameter expander to use with euro spec cases.
As far as holding the seated bullet, barely.
I can turn some of them with my fingers. But I can't push the bullet deeper by hitting it against steel. I also chambered a few and remeasured. No change.
This is with Starline brass and .309 coated bullets. I'll get .310 bullets next time.
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