.338-06 vs .35 Whelen

[Northwest Cajun]

Hi Guys

I've narrowed my selection of a new caliber between a .338-06 and a 35 Whelen, I've read that the 338-06 has advantages over the Whelen out to 200yds with 225gr-250gr bullets, I'd like to know what yall think.
The rifle will be built on a P17 Enfield action,24"or 25" barrel with fixed sights , forward mounted scope and lamanated stock.

Thanks

Cajun

 

[pinetree64]

I read a good article comparing the two several years ago in Handloader. You are correct, the 338/06 has better peformance. It seems that the 338 and 06 case are the perfect match providing better performance then the 30/06 or the 35 Whelen. I had my 30-06 rebarreled in 30-06 Ack, should have gone to the 338/06. Weatherby is the only one that has a 338/06, if they still make it.


tjg

 

[Badger Arms]

While I think I am a proponent of the .338-06, the 35 Whelen has one great advantage over the smaller caliber... Factory Loads. You might not consider this a great advantage if you reload or if you have somebody you know who does. The question of resale might not be that great to you, but things change. People get different ideas and need the money, get cancer, lose their jobs, etc. You might pass this on to your children and they need the money. You might be out on a hunt and run out of ammunition. You might face a situation where you just can't go to the store.

The Disadvantages of the 35 lie not in ballistics (which are mostly realized only on paper not on the game) but in the lack of bullet choice available in .358 caliber. The .338 has a much greater availability, but the bullets you'll find are designed to expand and perform at much higher velocities. Sure you can look a ballistics tables all day and the .338-06 might carry more energy, velocity, better trajectory, etc but will it take the game down as reliably? Bullets in .358 caliber were designed for the 35 Whelen and to expand reliably when shot from that gun.

Forgot to add something. The numbers you get from the .338-06 are reloads whereas the 35 Whelen is being downloaded a bit in factory ammo for mass production. When reloaded, the advantages of the .338-06 might disappear if they ever existed in the first place...

 

[cratz2]

On paper, they are very similar out to 300 yards or so. After that, the 338 looks better, trajectory wise and retained energy.

BA brings up good points concerning bullet selection and possible resale values. Good bullets are available in each and if you aren't the type to get experimental, they both will cover appropriate bases quite nicely.

In the field, hunting elk, moose or reasonable sized bears, I doubt if you will note much difference using standard bullets with similar sectional denisty and expansion properties.

 

[Northwest Cajun]

Once agian Badger, you are a wealth of information and posibilities. Whichever I pick, I'll make my own brass from 30-06, which was the whole point behind this project to make my own cartridges off a standard US military action.
And since it is part of my colllection of "military" rifles, I wouldn't get rid of it any time soon.

The point about the design of the bullets sounds good, but out to 200-250 yds it shouldn't make THAT much difference, shouldn't it?
I would most likely use 225 or 250 Hornady interlocks. The loading data I've found on line says I can push 225's at 2550-2650fps and 250's 2400-2500fps Those numbers are probably conservitave.


Cajun

 

[BigG]

...you can look a ballistics tables all day...

I agree that most of the advantages people describe about various cartridges are derived from statistics rather than actual performance. The 30/06 with 220 grain bullets will actually do about the same as either of the two choices, but I would agree that the 35 Whelen would be my choice if I was doing the picking. Actually, a 400 Whelen, since I'm a sucker for Elmer Keith's writings about the caliber.

400 is actually the 30/06 necked up. Begins to take on the panatela look of some of the classic African numbers.

 

[cratz2]

But I think the 400 had a lot of headspacing problems and brass ain't gonna last too long. The 375 seems to be OK in that regard - from what I read. I have no first hand experience with any of them except the Whelen.

I think I'd still go with the Whelen based on it having the most widely available ammo if you need to buy factory, 338-06 is only available from Weatherby as far as I know. As has been said, there is a greater choice of bullets in the .338 but if you stick to the most common weights, .338 or .358 should cover most bases.

If you're planning on keeping your shots inside 250 yards, I doubt if you or the target will notice the difference. Just depends on if you'd rather have what's a fairly obscure cartridge or an even less common cartridge.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The .400 Whelen is NOT a viable cartridge. As Cratz noted, the .400 had lots of headspace problems because there's virtually no shoulder.

The largest I'd really want to go with a .30-06 case is up to .375. There was an article in Rifle or Handloader a number of years ago, probably 1992, about the .375-06. Impressive numbers.

Regarding the .338-06 vs. the .35 Whelen and handloads vs factory, I really don't think much of the factory loads for the .35 at all.

They're kind of sedate, with a very limited bullet selection. Or they were when I was looking seriously at one about 5 years ago.

As for bullet selection, Hornady offers 5 bullets each in .338 and .358 in virtually the same weight range. There's a .180-gr. .358 bullet, probably suitable really only for the .35 Remington, and both top out at 250-gr.

Quite frankly, for the .35, that's 50-75 grains too light on the top end.

Hornady's soft point .338 in 250-grs. has an extremely impressive ballistic coefficient of .431, with a sectional density of .313. Much better than anything in .35 caliber.

Given the choice of the two, I'd be inclined to go with the .338-06.

 

[Badger Arms]

400 Whelen: Barnes said it was not a viable cartridge. I tend to agree with him on that one.

375 Whelen: Outstanding cartridge for short range. You should use bullets designed for the 375 Winchester to expand properly and those bullets tend to be flat-pointed and lose their velocity. You can use the bigger, tougher bullets but don't be surprised if you get spotty terminal performance at longer ranges.

35 Whelen: Well, I agree with Mike on the choices in Factory loadings, but there is a choice at least. It does have mid-range capabilities and its drop is not that great.

338-06: I won't disagree with what was said. I just don't necessarily want to be strapped to a wildcat cartridge.

 

[EchoSixMike]

Rather than the 375-06, might want to consider the 9.3x62. It can be made off 06 brass, but it's available in factory loads too. Performance is very similar, and load data is available in far greater abundance. Everybody has started making bullets as well. Nosler Partition in 286gn would be good all around. It's a very popular Euro caliber for the Dark Continent. S/F...Ken M

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I just don't necessarily want to be strapped to a wildcat cartridge."

No different than a commercial cartridge for which you can't find loaded ammo, or for which the selection is unsuitable.

The .338-06 may be a wild cat, but it's a relatively well-accepted wildcat, and cartridges like that have a good chance of eventually becoming a factor chambering, just like the .35 Whelen.

Forming cases is a simple matter of fireforming them, and all that is really needed for sizing is a neck sizer, which isn't difficult at all to obtain.

As far as wildcats go, this one's about as slamdunk easy as they get.

As for the .400 Whelen, Barnes is correct. I also know two people from my days with NRA who actually experimented with the .400 Whelen. They said when it worked, it worked well. When it didn't, it stank.


"9.3x62 Mauser..."

Hello European .35 Whelen.

How easy is it to come by the 9.3mm bullets?

One of the guys who messed with the .400 Whelen used a 9.3x57 Mauser to take several moose or elk over the years in the United States and Scandanavia.

 

[EchoSixMike]

How easy is it to come by the 9.3mm bullets? <<<<<

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.ex...egoryString=9315+***+652+***+675+***+9016+***

How's that? Other places work too S/F...Ken M

 

[cratz2]

338-06: I won't disagree with what was said. I just don't necessarily want to be strapped to a wildcat cartridge.

I don't think it's a wildcat anymore... I think A-Square standardized it a few years back. Probably be a while before it's regarded as a standardized cartridge thus you'll be stuck with the possible shortcomings of a wildcat... very little loaded ammo and probably less resale value.

 

[HerbG]

I've handloaded the .338/06 for years with excellent results. In a strong action like the Enfield, you drive heavy bullets pretty fast. I slightly prefer it over the .35 Whelen because of the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficient of .338 bullets. However, it's hard to fault anything that carries the name of one of the greatest riflemen who ever pulled a trigger - Townsend Whelen.

 

[BigG]

The only ca-atridge Townsend Whelen designed was the 400 Whelen. The 35 was made by somebody else and named after the good colonel.

 

[cratz2]

The 35 Whelen was named after him, not by him but I think he definately helped out with the 35.