35 Whelen vs 338-06

[sage5907]

I have done the same with Winchester Featherweight rifles, but only up to 3 so far.
Rebore from 270 to 35 Whelen, 30-06, and 223.
I’m looking for a 6.5 Swede but no luck yet.
These are late 1980’s vintage. Beautiful rifles and fit me perfectly.

Yes, I'm into the Winchester featherweight rifle also and you're well on your way. I found a used 6.5 Swede barrel on eBay about 2 years ago and I bid $180 just before the auction closed and I thought I had it locked up but someone smarter than me outbid me in the last minutes. I was really disappointed. You may have to buy a rifle in a different caliber and then change the barrel. If you see a 6.5 Swede barrel bid high and then look for a rifle later. It costs about $120 to change a barrel.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Brief update on this project. I don't have the barrel in for this yet. But I did send my bolt off to Kampfeld Custom to have a bolt knob installed and the bolt fluted. It took all of 8 days door to door, and Karl answers the phone when you call. The bolt knob is in his "campfire" size.

 

[Okie_Poke]

My barrel finally came in and I got it installed today. Installation wasn't terribly difficult, but it took me some doing to keep my recoil lug straight. I have and used a jig made specifically for that, of course, but I still had a bit of trouble. I have the Wheeler over-the-action wrench that needs to clamp on where the jig attaches, and so I had to remove the jig before torquing down the barrel nut. I would tighten the barrel nut as much as I could before I had to put the action wrench on, but I wasn't able to get even 20 ft-pounds of torque on it that way. Every time I torqued the thing down without the jig holding the recoil lug centered, the recoil lug would shift ever-so-slightly off center. I think it would have been real simple to torque the barrel nut back against the action while leaving the recoil lug jig installed if I had one of those rear-entry action wrenches., but I had to improvise with what I have. Regardless, I got it done without scuffing the action or barrel.

Here's the bolt closing easily on the Go Gauge:





And here it is not closing on the No Go Gauge:



I went ahead and put it back in my existing Boyd's Thumbhole stock with the factory Walker trigger and the ADL pieces. I plan to upgrade the trigger, stock, and change to a hinged floor plate at some point, but I wanted to put the rifle back together now and keep adding pieces as I get them. It took a little bit of work with a dowel rod and some sandpaper to open the inlet up for the thicker barrel and barrel nut, but it didn't take too long once I figured out what I'm doing. It's free floated up to the recoil lug again.



I also installed a VX-5HD 3-15x44 scope with the Firedot reticle. I decided to try Leupold's one-piece rings/mounts that are apparently intended to compete with Talley's. My only observation so far this combination is that I was not able to mount the scope as far back as the tube would allow because the angle on the sope between the tube and the bell hit the base of the mount. I didn't notice the interference at first but was having a hard time keeping the scope level as I was torquing the ring screws down and figured it out when I looked the rifle over. As a result, I had to mount the scope about a quarter to a half an inch further forward than I would have otherwise. Here's the assembled rifle as it sits today:

 

[Okie_Poke]

I ordered a 23" barrel in X-Caliber's #4 contour, which is similar to most other folks #3 countour or a Bartlein 2B. As the rifle sits now, it weighs just under 9 1/2 pounds:



The barrel alone weighs 2 pounds 13 ounces, just under 1/2 pound more than the factory '06 barrel:



The Boyd's stock weighs nearly 3 pounds:



The barreled action weighs just over 5 pounds before I add the scope or stock.



I'm going to shoot it a bit and see what I think of the balance and recoil before I decide on what stock to order for it. I could cut some weight there, and I could put a lighter optic on it as others have suggested previously. I'm going to wait and see before deciding on that. It's probably getting a Timney trigger and some cerakote too at some point.

 

[Gun-Reck]

A long time admirer of the .338-06 for its high SD/BC bullets and respectable velocity from reasonable hunting rifle length barrels, have come to view the .35 Whelen as a more flexible and probably effective cartridge at reasonable distances.

That said, for a hunting rifle larger than .30 caliber, went with the 9.3x62 Mauser, as it does "large" better, and PPU loads for it, providing inexpensive practice ammo and quality once-fired brass.

 

[Okie_Poke]

A long time admirer of the .338-06 for its high SD/BC bullets and respectable velocity from reasonable hunting rifle length barrels, have come to view the .35 Whelen as a more flexible and probably effective cartridge at reasonable distances.

That said, for a hunting rifle larger than .30 caliber, went with the 9.3x62 Mauser, as it does "large" better, and PPU loads for it, providing inexpensive practice ammo and quality once-fired brass.

To be honest, I went with the Whelen mostly because of the name. I agree the 338-06 looks better on paper, but this rifle isn't really intended to be a balanced do-all rifle. I have a 30-06 for that use case. In the end, I wanted the larger diameter bullet just to have more contrast with the 30-06. I went with Whelen instead of 9.3 mostly because of the name, and because the Whelen is directly based on the 30-06 case. Not terribly rational reasons, but that's where I landed.

 

[MarkIV70]

As a hunter with both calibers in pre-64 Model 70s, they both have advantages. They are also about 20 yrs old in my hands. The 35 Whelen came from near Boise, ID. as a custom rifle re-bore, re-cut rifle
using the original Winchester barrel with iron sights as backups in bear country. A 35 Whelen Ackley Imp is fine, but the Brown involves unnecessary work. The original design if a really good riflesmith does the work, has plenty
of shoulder. This custom stock looks exactly like the pre-64 Super Grade stock.

The 338-06 is on a 1950s M-70 with an actual Super Grade stock. It is very accurate with Nosler Partition or Accubond bullets. These rifles are old schoolers that work, and have iron sights.
The classic style stock is still the best design as it absorbs recoil. Even the McMillan stocks tend to follow this pattern.
Other Mauser calibers are fine, but if I need a bigger rifle its another Pre 64 M-70 in 375 H&H...or a Model 71 pre-war in 450 Alaskan. A rifle without iron sights is like a horse with a gimp leg, and slipping saddle.
Especially in Alaska, where gunsmiths and extra scopes may by a long way away by bush plane.
This is why the 30-06 is still very popular in the Last Frontier. Ammunition is available everywhere and new bullets like Swifts and Barnes make the 30-06 equal to a 300 H&H. Dude; Think iron sights...

 

[Chuck R.]

A carbon fiber stock would be in the 22-28 ounce range on average and that would save you about 18-20 ounces. You could easily find one with a slightly higher comb, combined with a bolt notch cut out that would allow you to get the scope clearance you're looking for.

 

[Okie_Poke]

A carbon fiber stock would be in the 22-28 ounce range on average and that would save you about 18-20 ounces. You could easily find one with a slightly higher comb, combined with a bolt notch cut out that would allow you to get the scope clearance you're looking for.

Yeah, I'm thinking about that. Even just a B&C stock in the 32-36 ounce range will save me 10-14 ounces and get me under 9 pounds, and I wouldn't have to pay for the carbon fiber. Also, I don't know how much of a raised comb I really need--this one aligns my eyes pretty good with the 44mm objective scope height-wise. That said, I'd like to know what the drop at comb on this stock is (is there a simple way to measure that?) and how that compares to a B&C stock. I don't think this stock drops much because I have to bend my cleaning rod ever so slightly around the back of the rollover cheekpiece when cleaning, so I think it rides a bit higher than a lot of classic-style stocks do. I used to have a 50mm objective scope on the old rifle in this stock and I didn't have trouble with eye alignment, but I sometimes do with even a 40mm scope on certain classic-style factory stocks.

I have been considering a carbon fiber McMillan Game Scout custom inlet for the barrel and barrel nut, but boy does that get spendy fast. There are lots of other options too, in so many shapes it's dizzying. I'm going to shoot this one for a bit and decide how much I want to try and lighten it up, and whether I want to go to an LPVO or some other lighter scope. Those two things will largely dictatge which direction I go with the stock.

Edit to add: I'm still considering a Boyd's Prairie Hunter in Walnut with Fleur de Lis checkering and a black tip. Because it's pretty. But, I'd have to pillar and glass bed it, and it would be just as heavy as it is now, and it wouldn't be as good of tool in varied weather conditions. Still so many decisions . . .

 

[Okie_Poke]

I shot this rifle for the first time last weekend. Spent most of my time at the range teaching my girls with a 22 and letting them shoot, but I did put three rounds down the Whelen just to test fire it and bore sight it. I used factory Hornady Superformance 200 grain Interlocks because that's what I could find most easily. I shot the first round standing up because I didn't know what I was in for. Then I got it close to centered up at 50 yards with two more shots from the bench. Girls were ready to go so I didn't shoot it any more, but no surprises so far.

I did chrono the second two shots from the bench and they clocked in at 3020 and 3029---about 100 fps faster than Hornady's box velocity for that ammo! No pressure or weird signs on the brass. When I got back home, I dropped the fired cases into a Wilson case gauge and measured them vs. the unfired brass with a Hornady comparator. They didn't grow hardly anything---maybe .001" to .002." So chamber is on the min side but the headspace gauges show it's in spec. I measured where the lands are with a couple different bullets and the Hornady stoney point tool, and about any 35 caliber bullet is going to be jumping a ways I think. Should be just fine.

More to follow once I start shooting it a bit more and working up loads for it.

 

[MarkIV70]

I have both calibers in pre-64 Model 70 custom rifles with the original cut-rifled barrels, re-chambered. They both are similar. They are designed for
bullet weights from 225 to 300 gr. Sometimes the 210 gr Nosler P. in the 338-06. I can even use the 300 gr solid in the 338-06. (Iron sights and an extra scope come in handy-in Africa or Alaska,)

And that is where the 30-06 cannot keep up: African or Alaskan dangerous game. The 338-06 is the 333 Jeffrey or 33 OKH. The 35 Whelen is the Rigby 350.
Both compare favorably with the British cartridges, pushing heavy bullets to reasonably useful velocity. Hodgdon's CFE -223 Alliant powder really ads
safe velocity to both of these cartridges, particularly the 35 Whelen. A 250 gr Swift or Nosler can be pushed safely to 2650 fps. Yes, the results of this powder
is in the A. Rifleman and the latest Speer manual with this CFE 223/ 35 Whelen loading. Impressive to say the least.

 

[WVRJ]

I have both calibers in M700 rifles and they are both more versatile than one might think. My Whelen is a M700 Classic that I put in a synthetic stock. It weighs a little bit over 8 pounds with a 3.5X10 Leupold on it. 225 grain Sierra Game Kings average around 2 inches at 100 yards and at 2700 FPS they hit the deer around here hard.
The 338-06 I have is based on a 338 Lapua that I traded for building a new 338 Lapua for a customer. The gunsmith who built the first one for him basically ruined the barrel and action. I took care of the action and cut down, threaded and contoured the barrel. It's 19 inches long. I used a Clymer reamer and set it up with
.002 headspace. I put it in a Magpul Hunter 700L stock for load development because the B&C stock I'm doing up now is a very light one. I like to find old fiberglass stocks and lighten them up and make them fit me. The rifle, scope, sling and 5 rounds of ammo in the Magpul detachable magazine tip the scales at 7 pounds 2 ounces. It's very accurate with several of the bullets that are for the 338 Federal. It's a light and compact rifle and I'm hoping to have it finished and ready to hunt by late spring.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The two are quite close on ballistic performance, However the .338 has the advantage of Higher sectional density and Higher ballistic coefficients and better all around bullet selections. Past 300yds, the .338 has it all over the .35W.

In ‘03 I elected to convert my MkX Mauser to .338/06. If I had it to do over again I’d go .35Whelen because with the .338 I’ve “been there, done that “.
It also let in two .338MX, MXLR in the house…
I converted the .338/06 BACK to .30/06 original barrel. It was just too good and has sentimental value as I killed my first deer with it in ‘76…
But, since acquiring a .358win BLR-‘81, to go with the Marlin M336 in .35Rem, my .35 itch has been scratched.
Either should “float your boat “…
But then again, the .30/06 with a 220gr bullet beats either past 300yds with superior BC and SD’s.
.30/06 ammo selections are far superior.

 

[KnightHawk]

There’s some good information and fine rifles here.
My 35 caliber and 338 started early in the 80’s and the 348 Winchester before in the mid 70’s.
I picked up a custom Mauser 98 in 35 Whelen in mid 80’s. Beautiful rifle, French walnut, double set triggers. Didn’t like the triggers, which soured me on the rifle. About that time I picked up a Savage 99 in 358 which I harvested my first moose with.
In the early 70’s I picked up 3 Sako Finbear pre Gracia 338 magnums from a friend who owned a Gun store in Santa Ana California. He could not sell in Southern California so I got an excellent deal on buying all three.
My Father was working on a brown bear hunt in Alaska that my Father and his very good friend along with myself. 338 caliber made since especially having 3 matching rifles and ammo. The loads I put together was using the 275 grain semi pointed Spear. The hunt never materialized till a decade later in 1982. I moved to Alaska in 1974. I eventually ended up with all 3 rifles again after our hunt in 82. My Father carried the Sako I carried a custom 458 built by a friend in 73.
So that’s my small history on 338 and 35 caliber rifles.
I no longer have any 338 magnums but I have a 338-06 improved which is built on a 1917 Enfield.






Nice wood 24 inch barrel. My BIL built the rifle in the early 60’s with the original 30-06 barrel. This was gifted to me in the mid sixties when my BIL discovered the 300 Winchester magnum.
I rebarreled in the late 80’s to 338-06 improved. In the meantime I discovered the Winchester Featherweight XTR USRA made in 30-06 which fit me better than any rifle I had used before. Shortly after I picked up a 270 and a 223 also. The 270 was for my wife, she didn’t like it and I have no use for a 270 so I had it rebored to 35 Whelen.
The Featherweight 30-06 I’ve used Hornady BTSP 190 grain pushed with IMR 4350. It has worked great on Caribou, no boutique bullets needed. Hornady 220’s and Woodliegh’s 240 semi SP waiting to be tested.
So the 30-06 has been in the drivers seat with the Whelen and the 338-06 over by the wall waiting.
But about 8 or 10 years ago I bought a new Forbes rifle in 35 Whelen. Melvin had all kinds of problems with Colt, investors which is another story.
Anyway the Forbes Rifle Co was started by Melvin, but quickly that company went south quickly. No fault of Melvin from what I understand. But I had no idea of these struggles. The Forbes Rifle was ultra light which is what I what I wanted. I purchased apparently the last of 3 - 35 Whelen rifles made just as things were falling apart. This was the model 24.
Gun weighed 5.4 pounds and with a 2x7 Leupold compact weighing in just above 6 pounds.
This rifle was brutal with the Hornady 250 grain bullet. Apparently the famous Ultra light stock that absorbed recoil wasn’t the stock on this rifle. It went down the road quickly.
I am embarrassed to say that I have been neglecting the Whelen and the 338-06 as life has gotten in the way.
But this summer is going to be a 35 and 338 summer. I have a 357 Rossi lever, a JM Marlin 35 Remington, a 358 Winchester in an original Ruger 77 with a tang safety, and besides the Enfield above the Winchester Featherweight 35 will get special attention.






At 8 pounds 1 ounce it behaves much better than the Forbes rifle.
Besides Hornady and Spear bullets I have been into casting and powder coating bullets. I have probably a dozen 35 caliber molds from 135 to 310 grains in 35 and 200 to 300 grains for the 338.
Should keep me busy as soon as the snow disappears in April.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I went ahead and ordered a Boyd’s stock for it. In walnut with checkering. Not the most practical stock, but this isn’t the most practical rifle. It looks pretty to me! Also, the weight is noticeably lighter than the hardwood laminate it currently wears.

 

[freedom 1776]

30/06ai

338/06ai

30 Gibbs

338 Gibbs

 

[Bfh_auto]

Hello all:

My first rifle, which I still have, is a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. I have since purchased another 30-06 that I prefer and am considering having my old 700 re-barreled into something else. The something else I think I want is a 35 Whelen, mostly because I think it's cool.

However, when I look at selection for available bullets, I'm wondering if the 338-06 would be the "better" choice. For example, at the time of this writing, Midway only lists 3 jacketed bullets as being in stock that are suitable for the 35 Whelen, and one of those is a 180 grain bullet I'm not interested in. Midsouth likewise lists three such bullets, again including a 180 grain in which I'm not interested. The real choices are 200 grain TTSX, 200 grain Hornady Interlock, 250 Hornady Interlock, 250 Norma Oryx. Those are all decent choices, but it's not a lot of choices. For .338" bullets, by contrast, Midway and Midsouth both currently list five hunting bullets between 200 and 250 grains, which include 8 different bullets between the two sites. No Nosler anything in stock for either, unsurprisingly I guess in our current market conditions, but unfortunate because a Whelen with a Partition seems like it'd be a good match.

I can find acceptable dies for both cartridges. I haven't seen head-stamped brass in stock for either in a while, though 30-06 brass is not hard to find (I have plenty). Primers are primers. So, from a component standpoint, bullet selection seems to be the main difference.

I plan to handload probably exclusively for either cartridge. But, I do like the option of shooting factory ammunition "just in case." Over the years, I've seen 35 Whelen in stock more often than 338-06. Right now Midway has two Barnes loads in stock for the Whelen and nothing for the 338-06. Gunbroker has a few more options for 35 Whelen, but only one very highly priced option for 338-06.

I might also play with cast lead bullets again some day, which in my mind fits better with the Whelen.

I know component and ammunition availability change over time and that right now is not a great time to find components or ammunition for the less-popular cartridges and calibers. But, I've been thinking about these particular cartridges for years at this point, and the current mix of ammo and components is pretty fair comparison of what I've seen over the years---bullet selection somewhat favors the 338 while factory ammo (and head stamped brass) favor the 35 Whelen.

After writing all of this out, I think I'm still leaning toward the Whelen. However, I would like your input. If you haven another suggestion, I'd be happy to consider that too, though I don't really want to change the bolt face so any magnums are out. I've considered a fast-twist 25-06, but it's awful close to my 6.5 Creedmoors. I've also considered a 280 AI, but I have a 30-06 for that use case. Both of those are still in consideration, but I think I prefer the idea of a medium bore thumper, even though I don't have a real need for one. In any event, help me out. This will be my first custom/semi-custom rifle build, so I'm (over)thinking through it a lot before I do it.

I have a Whelen. The 180 fn speer works very well in it. I also like it as a full velocity powder coated cast bullet shooter. It does well with 3031-4064 burn rate powders.
I suggest going AI for a better shoulder design.

 

[tdbmd]

Hello all:

My first rifle, which I still have, is a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. I have since purchased another 30-06 that I prefer and am considering having my old 700 re-barreled into something else. The something else I think I want is a 35 Whelen, mostly because I think it's cool.

However, when I look at selection for available bullets, I'm wondering if the 338-06 would be the "better" choice. For example, at the time of this writing, Midway only lists 3 jacketed bullets as being in stock that are suitable for the 35 Whelen, and one of those is a 180 grain bullet I'm not interested in. Midsouth likewise lists three such bullets, again including a 180 grain in which I'm not interested. The real choices are 200 grain TTSX, 200 grain Hornady Interlock, 250 Hornady Interlock, 250 Norma Oryx. Those are all decent choices, but it's not a lot of choices. For .338" bullets, by contrast, Midway and Midsouth both currently list five hunting bullets between 200 and 250 grains, which include 8 different bullets between the two sites. No Nosler anything in stock for either, unsurprisingly I guess in our current market conditions, but unfortunate because a Whelen with a Partition seems like it'd be a good match.

I can find acceptable dies for both cartridges. I haven't seen head-stamped brass in stock for either in a while, though 30-06 brass is not hard to find (I have plenty). Primers are primers. So, from a component standpoint, bullet selection seems to be the main difference.

I plan to handload probably exclusively for either cartridge. But, I do like the option of shooting factory ammunition "just in case." Over the years, I've seen 35 Whelen in stock more often than 338-06. Right now Midway has two Barnes loads in stock for the Whelen and nothing for the 338-06. Gunbroker has a few more options for 35 Whelen, but only one very highly priced option for 338-06.

I might also play with cast lead bullets again some day, which in my mind fits better with the Whelen.

I know component and ammunition availability change over time and that right now is not a great time to find components or ammunition for the less-popular cartridges and calibers. But, I've been thinking about these particular cartridges for years at this point, and the current mix of ammo and components is pretty fair comparison of what I've seen over the years---bullet selection somewhat favors the 338 while factory ammo (and head stamped brass) favor the 35 Whelen.

After writing all of this out, I think I'm still leaning toward the Whelen. However, I would like your input. If you haven another suggestion, I'd be happy to consider that too, though I don't really want to change the bolt face so any magnums are out. I've considered a fast-twist 25-06, but it's awful close to my 6.5 Creedmoors. I've also considered a 280 AI, but I have a 30-06 for that use case. Both of those are still in consideration, but I think I prefer the idea of a medium bore thumper, even though I don't have a real need for one. In any event, help me out. This will be my first custom/semi-custom rifle build, so I'm (over)thinking through it a lot before I do it.

Many times the 225 grain Sierra is available, just bought a couple of boxes about 2 months ago. Also have bought 225 grain Nosler Partitions in the past but have not looked for any lately. Speer makes a 250 grain softpoint that I see available fairly often as well.

 

[Chuck R.]

Many times the 225 grain Sierra is available, just bought a couple of boxes about 2 months ago. Also have bought 225 grain Nosler Partitions in the past but have not looked for any lately. Speer makes a 250 grain softpoint that I see available fairly often as well.

The 225 partitions have been unavailable for a while now, it's unfortunate because it's my favorite bullet in my 350RM. I've got enough left for a couple elk hunts after confirming my zero

The 225 Sierras are a great bullet, very accurate and I've killed one 5x4 bull with them at about 230yds, found them on the off side under the hide, perfect mushrooms.

I've been impressed with the 180 Speer HotCor FP in my 358Win. This one went through the shoulder of a feral boar at about 10' and travelled his length coming to rest by his hind quarter:

It's the only one I've recovered, the rest have passed through, shoulder and necks.

 

[Okie_Poke]

The bullets I have are 250 Speer Hot-Cors and 225 Barnes TSX. I have a tickler setup for 250 grain partitions as that bullet just seems like it would fit the Whelen's "personality," for lack of a better term. They came in stock at Midway a while back and I failed to grab them, but I will next time they hit. It is a cartridge where you want to stockpile bullets when they are in stock as most appear to be on limited runs.

I've only shot the Hot-Cors so far (other than the Hornady Superformance factory load noted above, which is just screaming fast). Accuracy has been so-so, though right now I'm mostly loading single-round-per-charge ladders with various powders to gather some data and get familiar with the cartridge.

Once my bottom metal comes in, I'll get the stock installed and likely pillar bed it. More updates to come as I put the rifle together. Given the actual stock weight, I think the rifle is going to be right at or under 9 pounds but we'll see.