338 Federal or 45-70

[JShirley]

Nomad,

Welcome to THR! The .338 Federal is a good short-to-medium range round for deer-sized game. The .45-70, OTOH, can be reasonably used from a strong modern rifle against anything smaller than elephant and cape buff. Against something big and toothy, I'd prefer the .45-70 every time.

John

 

[Buzzard]

Marlin 1895G Guide Gun. Slightly tweaked.

Dump the buckhorn and put a peep or ghost ring sight on it. The XS Sight Systems rail & ghost ring combo is really popular. If you want to get a little nuts, slap a red-dot sight on it. Do not forget to put a Limbsaver pad on the thing. Because if you do forget, the gun will remind you. And not in a friendly way.

You now have a fast-handling, lever-action, freight-train dispenser. Ammo can be found anywhere, components are very common, and you can handload it from "learning to shoot" to "I ain't doin' THAT again!"

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I hope this doesn't drift the thread too far, I don't think it will.

Its kinda amazing...

The resurgence of the popularity of the 45-70, a round thats 135 years old and many people are just now discovering it. I just "re" discovered it less than a year ago...until then I had never fired a "fully loaded" 45-70, and I've had a 45-70 for a long time.

When fully loaded...its not for the faint of heart.

Screw on a recoil pad boys...the 45-70 has entered the 21st century.

 

[Nomad44]

Thanks John, I am glad to be a member.

Thank you everyone for your input, I believe the winner is the 45-70.

 

[chas08]

You now have a fast-handling, lever-action, freight-train dispenser.

(LMAO) I love that analogy

and you can handload it from "learning to shoot" to "I ain't doin' THAT again!"

Well maybe since I don't handload anymore, I won't hurt myself. I have found that the Hornady Leverevolution ammo works really well in my Marlin. I've owned (and gotten rid of) bolt actions that wouldn't shoot as well at 100 yds as my Marlin will at 200 yds. I had overlooked this cartridge for 50+ years and as it turns out, I love it.

 

[Kachok]

I like the idea of the 338 Fed, it was kinna stolen from the wrightings of Jack O'Connor when he described what the perfect woods rifle would be. That said, I would not choose it over a legend like the 45-70. I think that any round that has lasted over 100 years fills a nitch very nicly, think about it. 30-06 Still the all around king of big game, 6.5x55 MOST VERSITILE CALABER EVER, 30-30 all the woods hunter ever needs with min recoil and no muzzle blast, 7x57 Do I really need to comment on that one. You just don't find calibers that old that are unbalanced. The nitch the 45-70 still fills better then anything is remarkable killing power in a quick handeling lever rifle, with no more recoil then an experenced shooter can easly handle. If I were to choose a rifle to stalk hunt large bear/boar in thick cover there simply is no other choice.

 

[kludge]

I'd take the .338 Fed, except maybe for bison, and then only for nostalgia.

If we're limiting this to lever actions I'd go for the .358 Win instead in a Browning BLR, and if we're not limited to levers I'd also look at .350 Rem Mag and maybe the .35 Whelen or .338-06. I rarely buy factory rifle ammo so ammo availability means little to me.

 

[IdahoLT1]

Dick Metcalf dumped a 2200lb Bison with one shot at 150yds(IIRC) using the .338 Federal. The .338 Federal is plenty for anything in N. America inside 250yds. In commercial loadings, it has more muzzle energy than the 7mm remington with similar recoil to a .30-06 shooting 180gr. bullets.

As far as availability, if you reload and can get .308 brass, you can shoot the .338 Federal, regardless of its commercial availability.

 

[GooseGestapo]

APPLES vs. ORANGES....

I've got both, sorta.....

I've got a Marlin 1895GG, AND, I've got a Marlin 338MX, and fwiw a MkX Mauser in .338/06....

For the obvious use, yes, at ranges under 100yds with either a heavy handload, or one of the custom factory loads you can get some near-.458winmag performance from the .45/70. I've shot some 400gr loads at near 2,000fps (remember 18.5"bbl) and power and penetration are awesome. Recoil has to be expected!

However, with the .338Fed (and it's rimmed equivalent the .338MarlinExpress), with the available bullets, the trajectory at 300yds is much, much flatter and recoil is much tamer (eq. to the .30/06).

Kinetic energy (ft/lbs) favors the .338Fed (.338ME), but momentum (lb/ft) favors the .45/70. It is well documented that the momentum calculation better describes the performance of large bullets on large game. For black bear and deer size game, the ft/lbs is better.

So, to MY conclusion:
Different tools for different jobs.
To walk into an alder thicket to take/dispatch a LARGE bear- give me my 1895GG; it wears both the original rear sight, and a Williams Guide-reciever sight as well as a Williams Fire sight front sight. I also have a Leupold base, rings and a Leupold VX-III 1.5-5x scope that can be screwed on the reciever as desired. I've got a heavy load... 400gr hard cast, heat treated FN over full case of IMR3031. And, a "working" load of 300gr FNGC (weighs 320gr as cast) over 30.0gr of #2400 for an inexpensive "do all" load, from plinking to deer hunting. (chrono's 1,650fps and shoot sub-2moa at 100yds)

To walk the ridges and dark timber of the western rocky mt. or the oak-pine bottoms of the S.E.USA, with the possibility of a 200-300yd shot on a deer, pig, elk, black bear along a powerline or gasline ROW, and at same time to handle a bear that tries to get into the tent with me at 3am, -I'll take the .338ME, or if YOU prefer, an AR platform in .338FED. Give the .338FED a Nosler 210gr Partition and you're "adequately" equiped for anything in N.America. The whole reason for it's existence (and Marlin .338MX).
Efficient packaging of a proven commodity. My MarlinMX weighs 8.6lbs with Leupold VariX-II scope and 5rds of ammo. The MkX weighs 10.5lbs and is 5" longer...
And yes, if in Alaska, my first round in the barrel will have a Nosler 210gr Partition over 46.0gr of Acc#2520. Gets 2,450fps mv. Hits 1" higher and to the left of the 200gr FTX at 100yds.

 

[Kachok]

Hold on now let's give the 338 it's due. Despite the fact that I perfer the 45-70 I will say that the 338 Fed is better for anything past 150-200 yards. Much higher BC on those 210 gr 338 spritzers then the 405 gr .458cal flat nose. Both are good, both have their place.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Just an FYI I don't have either caliber but I've been reading about the .338 Fed reloading data and none of the available commercial powders will give you the same ballistics as the factory loaded stuff. At least not yet.

But that doesn't mean that you can't reload great rounds, you'll just never reach the maximum velocity like the factory stuff can.

 

[Maverick223]

Lovesbeer99, Hodgdon just released the LeveRevolution powder used for the .308MX/.338MX/.338Fed./.30-30Win. (but NOT the .45-70Govt. )...it should be available 1st quarter next yr. I don't know what performance difference it makes for the .308/.338MX and the .338Fed, but it sure gives new life to the venerable old the .30-30Win.

BTW, the Superformance powder should come out at the same time (looking forward to try some of that in my 6mmRem.).

 

[Flintknapper]

Onmilo wrote:

.338 Federal can be chambered in a semi auto rifle, something the .45/70 cannot without some extensive gunsmithing and nobody need post a picture of a Gatling Gun

This is true, however for those not aware.....the .458 SOCOM can be built up on an AR platform (all you need is the upper). It has ballistics nearly identical to the venerable 45/70 and will shoot anything from a 100 gr. pill (yes 100) up to 600 gr. bullets.

I shoot mostly 250 gr through 405 gr bullets through mine.

Not meaning to take this thread off-track, just saying there are options available.

Personally, if shots under 200 yds. were the "norm", I would go with the 45/70.

Flint.