.357 148gr HBWCs

[rcmodel]

We must have very different Speer 1979 #10 manuals.

Mine doesn't list Unique at all for either .38 Spl. or .357 Mag with HBWC bullets.

It only lists Unique in .38 Special using the 148 grain BBWC.
4.5 grains gives 868 FPS, and 5.1 gives 981.

The .357 HBWC loads all top out at a little over 800 FPS, and there is a warning to not exceed those velocities with HBWC bullets.

Both the .38 & .357 data was tested in Ruger Security Six revolvers, not S&W.

Very curious indeed!

Speer #13 does list Unique in .38 Spl, using 4.5 - 5.1 grains, but only with a BBWC,
Not with a HBWC.
Those loads were tested in a S&W Model 14.

 

[Sunray]

"...a good starting point for Bullseye and target wadcutters in a .357 case?..." Use regular .38 Special cast bullet data. However, 2.5 to 2.8 grains of Bullseye will give you an accurate target load. No crimp. Work up the load for your revolver. The same powder charge works with either a DEWC or HBWC. Shot bullseye for eons using .357 cases and .38 data.
"...just seat 'em till' they look right..." Seat 'em flush.
"...NEVER loaded this bullet in a .357 magnum case; cuz when driven at higher velocities..." The case has nothing to do with resulting velocity. Don't use 'em with .357 data though.

 

[loneviking]

We must have very different Speer 1979 #10 manuals.

Mine doesn't list Unique at all for either .38 Spl. or .357 Mag with HBWC bullets.

It only lists Unique in .38 Special using the 148 grain BBWC.
4.5 grains gives 868 FPS, and 5.1 gives 981.

The .357 HBWC loads all top out at a little over 800 FPS, and there is a warning to not exceed those velocities with HBWC bullets.

Both the .38 & .357 data was tested in Ruger Security Six revolvers, not S&W.

Very curious indeed!

Speer #13 does list Unique in .38 Spl, using 4.5 - 5.1 grains, but only with a BBWC,
Not with a HBWC.
Those loads were tested in a S&W Model 14.

Hmmm, O.K., let's take a second look and make sure I'm not getting both senile AND dyslexic!

I have in my hot little hands a Speer Reloading Manual, Number 10, for Rifle and Pistol. Mine lists 5 printings of this manual with the last being in April of 1984:
1st printing, Oct. 1979
2nd printing, Feb. 1980
3rd printing, Feb. 1981
4th printing, May 1982
5th printing, April 1984.

That's probably what the difference is, but let's continue on...

On page 359, in the .38 special section, is the load table for the .358 Dia. Speer, 148 gr. HBWC. The table lists two Bullseye loads:

2.8 resulting in 741 fps
3.1 resulting in 799 fps

And yes, tested in a Model 14.

Page 365 has the load table for the .357, and you're right! No Unique, Bullseye is still there with a load of 3.0 for 733 fps, and 3.3 for 806 fps. The warning is still there saying that bullet deformation may occur which might result in gun damage. The gun used for testing was a Ruger Security 6!

So, I stand corrected! And I have to get some Bullseye powder as all I have is Unique....

 

[slimshot]

'little mags

For years I have been loading my old DEWC's in .357 cases. All of my .357 cases get prepped with Winchester small pistol magnum primers for uniformity, including the ones for the DEWC's. I load with 3.0 gr of Bullseye and seat the bullet to the third ring. They are great light loads in a revolver, but beleive it or not, they worked out best in my Marlin .357 lever 1894! They feed fine because of the extra length, and shoot small clusters of sharp cut holes at 50 yards. (A REAL small cluster at 25 yards!) I don't mean to start another debate about mag primers, it's just that I've never switched from them for my 2400 powder loads, and I didn't want to mix up any standard-primed cases in that caliber. Just my two cents....

 

[loneviking]

No debate from me as that is what I use as well. Third ring? I thought so but everybody keeps saying 'flush' and that ain't flush! Looks like 3.0 to 3.3 gr. of Bullseye should do the trick!

 

[rcmodel]

I am of the opinion that all 148 grain WC should be seated flush for use in the S&W Model 52 autoloader, because that is all they will feed.

I seat them out slightly for revolver use, because I feel that gives the exposed bullet a slightly better chance of centering itself in the chamber throats.

But I couldn't prove it one way or another!