.38 HBWC seating ?

[velocette]

Started using HBWC bullets in my K38 over 2.7 / 2.8 gr of Bullseye, mild recoil and great accuracy
and no bore leading. A great winner. Until I try to use them with a speedloader. They don't cooperate. When I used DEWC 148s the rounded nub end made speedloader use easy.
Not so with the HBWCs so far.
Question, how deep do you seat your HBWCs and how far does the crimp come around the face of the bullet?
It looks as if I seat them deeper and round the face with the crimp, it might help, but I don't want to lose the nice accuracy or begin splitting brass more than I do now.
Opinions?

Roger

 

[dannyd]

This chart helps

 

[ericuda]

Speedloaders have their purpose.

 

[deadeye dick]

I crimp at the crimp groove leaving about 1/4 in exposed. I shoot these out of a 38/357 Blackhawk. This works for me

 

[Walkalong]

I've never tried to use speedloaders with HBWCs.

 

[dannyd]

I seat them just about flush and that works for me

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I seat HBWC in 38 Spl flush. Speed loaders don't work with them.

If I want to use speed loaders - which isn't often - I use a round nose or round flat bullet. The Lee 358-125RF or the 358-158-RN works very well in that situation.

 

[Walkalong]

You could always load them long and try them. Light roll crimp into canellure.

 

[Walkalong]

Or a light roll crimp over the leading edge.

 

[velocette]

As Walkalong noted, rolling the crimp around the front of the bullet may give me a smoother entry to the cylinders with a speedloader. Definitely do not want to overpressure the old K38 revolver.
Need to use speedloaders as I use a revolver in my club's monthly "combat" match with 20 second 12 round strings with (obviously) a reload and other 12, 18 and 24 rd strings in more time, all of which are easier with speedloaders.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Need to use speedloaders as I use a revolver in my club's monthly "combat" match with 20 second 12 round strings with (obviously) a reload and other 12, 18 and 24 rd strings in more time, all of which are easier with speedloaders.

Sounds like the old PPC matches I used to shoot when I got into LE back in the early 80s. My PPC gun was built on a K-38 frame and we did use speedloaders with our flush seated HBWC ammo.

We shot a lot of Winchester Super Match 148gr HBWC with the bullet seated flush (actually a little below flush) to allow the case mouth to be roll crimped over the front of the bullet...it had to be able to feed in semiautomatic pistols like the S&W M-52 also.

There are 3 things that will make your ability to load with speedloaders a bit smoother:
1. Modify the gun: Chamfer the rear of the chambers to remove the sharp edge ( really more useful when loading RN bullets)
2. Picking a good speedloader: The speedloader of choice used to be the Dade, but the Safariland Comp-III was overtaking them when I stopped shooting PPC. You want speedloaders which hold the shells as stable as possible to avoid mis-alignment.
3. Technique: I place my index finger between the top 2 rounds to guide them into the top 2 chambers. Let the rounds align, you can't force them

 

[.38 Special]

@9mmepiphany's experience matches mine exactly. Flush seat, roll crimp, break the edges around the chambers, and use Comp-IIIs.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Did someone say PPC?





Cylinder chamfer?

 

[meesterdon]

 

[velocette]

That's what I wanted to know. Yes, my club's monthly match is modeled after PPC matches with small "adjustments" for hard to get ammo and the age of the competitors. I am using Safariland comp III speedloaders, my K38's chamber mouths have been lightly chamfered.
Wanting to use the 148 HBWCs for their accuracy and clean holes in the target.
Thank you, one and all for helping with good information and suggestions.
Anyone wishing to escape the icy winds of winter, 2nd Sunday of every month my club hosts a low pressure PPC lookalike, Hollywood Rifle & Pistol Club, just outside of Fort Lauderdale FL. URL is in my signature below.

 

[wcwhitey]

@9mmepiphany exactly! This is also why you see the Bulleseye charge go from 2.3 to 2.7 grains it’s the seating depth. For a Model 52 S&W you seated just below and roll crimped just a bit to give a taper for the auto loader. You also loaded down to 2,5 grains to compensate. Some would go down as far as 2.3 but that would sometimes not cycle the pistol. For a revolver anything goes in Bullseye as the reload isn’t critical what shoots the best does. It’s all about experimentation, trial and error.

 

[BJung]

I think you'll need to use a round nose. Maybe if you extend your wadcutter, the cartridges would feed better.

 

[mdi]

I never tried a speed loader with wadcutter, on occasion I tried speed strips. But just looking at a flat, square ended bullet tells me that quickly feeding some into holes that are just lightly chamfered would be problematic. Especially when one is trying to stuff 5 or 6 in at the same time. Never being in a hurry, I just load one at a time...

The majority of my wadcutter use was 38 cal,, 150 gr. DEWC. I also used this bullet for a house gun load when I was not shooting jacketed bullets (late '70s, early '80s). A max load of W231 provided a decent accuracy out to 10-12 yards and I figgered the flat nose would do a good but of damage at 850 to 900 fps.

 

[9mmepiphany]

But just looking at a flat, square ended bullet tells me that quickly feeding some into holes that are just lightly chamfered would be problematic. Especially when one is trying to stuff 5 or 6 in at the same time.

Not at all, if you remember to not trying to control all 6 at once. Concentrate on aligning just the top 2

...on occasion I tried speed strips.

It is the same concept...speed strips just take 3 times as long. The only advantage of speed strips is they are less bulky

 

[Jim Watson]

Agree, a roll crimp on a flush wadcutter will let you speed load and feed through a M52 or Super to Special conversion.

When I was in PPC there was a rumor that a team was using 110 gr hollow points at the closer ranges for speedier loading and more time to aim. Being cheap, a friend and I tried it with cast 125 gr truncated cones. They loaded quick but while we were prepared to make an elevation change, for some reason they shot away in windage too and we were not willing to fool with that.

 

[velocette]

Jim W;
I have tried the same and gotten the same results. Mine shot low right and not just a little bit. One of the reasons I am working to retain the accuracy improvement with the 147 HBWC bullets. Sadly, some of the competitors in my club, actually know how to shoot and are using semi autos.