.357 Troubles

[fxvr5]

Both are measuring at .3770

I'm getting .375 with my Dillon size die.

Maybe other folks can measure their sized cases and we'll have more data for a comparison.

 

[Demi-human]

If his dies work for 38s. Then it's not a junk die issue.
I agree with you about the expander being set wrong.

with my 38 brass. I can still insert and remove the bullets by hand but it takes effort/significant squeezing of the bullet.

I wouldn't call this working properly.
One should not be able to remove a bullet by hand.
Else we wouldn't need presses.

 

[Demi-human]

I'm getting .375 with my Dillon size die.

So with his measurments and .010" brass there is exactly zero tension on a .357 bullet. I like more than that, even with thicker brass.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

This would be a tempting time to order some new dies. I started with Lee dies in all 3 pistol calibers I load but have gradually replaced most of the dies. I still use the through the powder expander and sometimes the FCD. Before switching dies I polished one expander down some. I can say that I like the Redding and the RCBS sizing dies I picked up on Ebay a lot better then I did the Lees that they replaced.

I picked up some RCBS dies for 357. Hopefully that solves it. This isn't an issue with the brand new hornady brass just my 1nce fired ones from my last round of loading 357.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

Measure the inside of your sizing die, and the outside and inside of the brass. Let us know what it is.

Sounds like the sizing die is too large, or missing the carbide insert.

All my RP brass goes into a separate bend due to it's thinner wall and softer brass. Only works well with over size lead bullets.

Inside die is .3720
In .38
At the end near bullet/ opening is. 375
At the base near neck its .3770
Inside .3555

In .357
At the near bullet/opening is .3750
At base near neck its 3.780
Inside is .357

 

[KINGLIZRD]

I wouldn't call this working properly.
One should not be able to remove a bullet by hand.
Else we wouldn't need presses.

OK thats with the RP brass. Not my other 38 brass

 

[Demi-human]

Inside is .357

So zero tension.
I like four thousandths smaller than bullet diameter in a pistol. Less so in a rifle.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm gonna guess the RCBS dies will solve his problem.

 

[AJC1]

There is significantly more tension with my 38 brass. I can still insert and remove the bullets by hand but it takes effort/significant squeezing of the bullet.

The bullet will move if I tighten the caliper on the 357 brass when taking measurements with almost no effort. The bullet in the 38 case is not loose by any means but does not need the press to set deeper in the case.

If you can insert the bullets by hand in your 38s then those dont have good neck tension either. Given that new fact your dies are not sizing your brass down near enough. A new sizer is your next step.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I wouldn't call this working properly.
One should not be able to remove a bullet by hand.
Else we wouldn't need presses.

I reread the OP. If he is not having the issue when loading the 38 special brass which is shorter. How is he running into problems with longer brass unless it's from the brass being thin?
I did see he said the issue is with non-flared cases also.

 

[Demi-human]

If he is not having the issue when loading the 38 special brass

I think he is, he just doesn’t know it yet.
(No offense intended, King.)

How is he running into problems with longer brass unless it's from the brass being thin?

I think it is.
At least too thin for his die. Or the die is too big.
Regardless, for me, if my bullet measures .357”, I want my brass inside diameter to be .354”, with .353” being better. Both measurements too large for a Nine Millimeter bullet.
It matters not to me what the dies measure where, as long as when they are done and the brass has sprung back, that it measures what I need at the inside to hold the bullet firmly.

I pride myself on not needing a crimp. Inaccurate things can happen with too tight, but I have no problems at all with ‘very firm’.

How is he running into problems with longer brass

I’m not sure. A mystery is afoot! That’s the fun part!

 

[Blue68f100]

Inside die is .3720
In .38
At the end near bullet/ opening is. 375
At the base near neck its .3770
Inside .3555

In .357
At the near bullet/opening is .3750
At base near neck its 3.780
Inside is .357

The problem is the ultra thin RP brass. A sizing die that will take the dia to 0.355" in will work and solve your problem. The down side is that it will over work the 38 brass which is thicker.

 

[buck460XVR]

The problem is the ultra thin RP brass. A sizing die that will take the dia to 0.355" in will work and solve your problem. The down side is that it will over work the 38 brass which is thicker.

I use a lot of RP brass in .357 and have never had a issue with neck tension with my RCBS dies. Have seen no issue with using them on brass like Starline which is noticeably thicker. I have had issues in the past with neck tension using stock Lee sizing dies in .380. Lee's solution? Have me buy a $28 "undersize" sizing die. If the OP can start his bullets without flaring after resizing, he either has a bad sizing die, or has adjusted it incorrectly, or has undersized bullets. A proper die should be able to correctly size any of the most popular brands of brass....this includes RP.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I think he is, he just doesn’t know it yet.

I wonder if the OP is using cast for his 38 loads. It could be why he didn't complain about them.
I've used the same Lee dies for 357 since 2006. I've never had an issue that wasn't caused by operator error.
I learned to set the sizer as low as I can. I set the flare to barely allow the bullet to start.

 

[murf]

There wasn't any directions for 357 on the seating die. The directions said 3 full turns out for 38 so I went 4 and 1/4 and adjust so there is no crimp.

the 357 magnum case is a lot longer than the 38 special case. 4.25 turns ain't gonna getit.

back out the seater die, put a 357 magnum case in the shellholder, fully raise the ram, screw down the seating die till it bottoms out on the case, back off the die half a turn and lock it down. seat a bullet and see how the neck tension is. i think you may have been seating your bullets with a full crimp and the crimp sized your bullets down.

luck,

murf

 

[Spade5]

You could take a dry erase marker and mark up a piece of brass and run it through the Lee sizer. I would think most of the marker would be removed. May not tell you anything but the price is right - cheap.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I picked up some RCBS dies for 357. Hopefully that solves it. This isn't an issue with the brand new hornady brass just my 1nce fired ones from my last round of loading 357.

Your new brass will be the proper size when you buy it. You wouldn't know if your die is working properly until you shoot them.

Out of curiosity. How are you setting your sizing die? If you aren't setting it low enough. It could give you those issues.

 

[Walkalong]

If his dies work for 38s. Then it's not a junk die issue.
I agree with you about the expander being set wrong.
I have done that in the past when switching from 38 to 357.

Perhaps, or he happens to have thick .38 Spl and thin .357, and I thought he said his .38 Spl were only a little bit better, but not where they should be. Might be wrong there.

I could have sworn he posted that he skipped the expander on at least one case and still had no neck tension.

But yes, we often see that issue here where folks have the expander adjusted too far down.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

So zero tension.
I like four thousandths smaller than bullet diameter in a pistol. Less so in a

I reread the OP. If he is not having the issue when loading the 38 special brass which is shorter. How is he running into problems with longer brass unless it's from the brass being thin?
I did see he said the issue is with non-flared cases also.

Yea prob was only with previously shot rp 38 brass and Hornady 357 brass. I believe it was something I did when loading the brass originally

 

[KINGLIZRD]

I think he is, he just doesn’t know it yet.
(No offense intended, King.)



I think it is.
At least too thin for his die. Or the die is too big.
Regardless, for me, if my bullet measures .357”, I want my brass inside diameter to be .354”, with .353” being better. Both measurements too large for a Nine Millimeter bullet.
It matters not to me what the dies measure where, as long as when they are done and the brass has sprung back, that it measures what I need at the inside to hold the bullet firmly.

I pride myself on not needing a crimp. Inaccurate things can happen with too tight, but I have no problems at all with ‘very firm’.



I’m not sure. A mystery is afoot! That’s the fun part!

Decided to scrub the 357 brass and not use the rp brass. My other brass which was resized geco brass worked well as well as the new hornady 357 brass. Im going to wait for new ribs 357 sizing die and see if it changes the problem brass.

I also took significant care in setting up and using the expander/loading die. On my 357 brass and barely flared the mouth.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

the 357 magnum case is a lot longer than the 38 special case. 4.25 turns ain't gonna getit.

back out the seater die, put a 357 magnum case in the shellholder, fully raise the ram, screw down the seating die till it bottoms out on the case, back off the die half a turn and lock it down. seat a bullet and see how the neck tension is. i think you may have been seating your bullets with a full crimp and the crimp sized your bullets down.

luck,

murf

I used new brass and inserted a case and raised until the crimp of the seat die did not grab the case then used the seat dial on top of the die to seat the bullet appropriately.

After I seated all my 357 loads in the new brass I lowered the die to apply.minor crimp.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

So zero tension.
I like four thousandths smaller than bullet diameter in a pistol. Less so in a

You could take a dry erase marker and mark up a piece of brass and run it through the Lee sizer. I would think most of the marker would be removed. May not tell you anything but the price is right - cheap.

I will try this if the RCBS dies do not make a difference.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

Your new brass will be the proper size when you buy it. You wouldn't know if your die is working properly until you shoot them.

Out of curiosity. How are you setting your sizing die? If you aren't setting it low enough. It could give you those issues.

Sizing die is screwed in to meet the the shell holder then down 1/4-1/3 more.

 

[KINGLIZRD]

Perhaps, or he happens to have thick .38 Spl and thin .357, and I thought he said his .38 Spl were only a little bit better, but not where they should be. Might be wrong there.

I could have sworn he posted that he skipped the expander on at least one case and still had no neck tension.

But yes, we often see that issue here where folks have the expander adjusted too far down.

I believe my issue was that I did not use the expander/load threw die correctly and over expanded the first sets of bass. Is that brass trashed now?

Additionally I don't have this issue with all of.my 38 brass just the RP brass has week neck tension.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Sizing die is screwed in to meet the the shell holder then down 1/4-1/3 more.

I have to agree with everyone else that says a new sizer is in order. I try to err on the don't throw money at a problem side.
My earlier comments were made without seeing your post about the 38 brass not having correct neck tension also.