357, CCI Primers, and light strikes

[baz]

Loaded up my first batch of 357 this week, and went to try them out. Of the five, two were light strikes and didn't fire. One fired on a second try, the other took two tries before it fired. The gun was a Taurus 605. I've shot hundreds of rounds of commercial stuff through it, mostly 38, some 357. I've been reloading 38, and its shot my 38 reloads just fine.

But my 38 reloads all have WSP primers. I used CCI 500 for the 357 reloads.

Between the possibilities of a weak spring in the 605, and CCI primers having a reputation for hardness, I'm going to try the same loads with WSP primers and see if they work okay. As I said, the WSP primers have all gone bang with my 38 reloads in this gun.

Anything else to look into?

 

[MarshallDodge]

I have not used CCI primers so I can't comment on them. Currently I am using Winchester primers but I have have heard that Federal primers are the best for light strike issues.

I had a Taurus .22 target pistol years ago that had a light strike issue. The problem was fixed by adjusting the hammer spring located under the grips.

 

[Mal H]

You should also look into your priming technique. If the primer is not bottomed in the primer pocket, then the first firing pin hit will finish seating it and the second will fire it. If your gun fires factory rounds without failures, then this is the most likely cause of the problem.

Inspect your primers for being seated below the surface of the case head. How much below is a variable depending on the variety of the primer and the case. But, they should definitely be below the surface by several thousandths of an inch.

I use a hand primer instead of using the press and have never had an improperly seated primer - just squeeze the grip all the way to the stop. The primer is either seated or it is going to be deformed trying to seat because I'm not stopping til I hit the stop. (No, I don't get deformed primers, they all seat properly.)

 

[ReloaderFred]

I'll second what Mal H said. The seating of primers causes a lot of reloaders headaches until they develop the proper technique and get them seated below flush.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[tasco 74]

plus 1 on what MAL H said.................. i use the lee auto prime to feel em bottom out in the primer pocket.............

 

[baz]

Well, since I'm still pretty green, I'll watch how I prime. But if the problem were my priming technique, then wouldn't I be just as likely to have light strikes with my 38 rounds using WSP primers? I've loaded up a few dozen of those, now, and never had a light strike. But the first batch of 357's, where I just so happened to switch to CCI primers, is when the problem occured.

I suppose it could be both -- the primers and my technique. Maybe WSP's are seating easier, and the CCI 500's are not going in quite as deep?

I am, though, using the Lee hand primer, and don't really recall that the CCI primers required more thumb force than the WSP primers.

What is most interesting about the responses is what I've learned: that not seating them deep enough could be the cause of a light strike. Without Mal H's explanation, which makes perfect sense on hearing it, I wouldn't have thought about that.

Well, new question, then. Though I only charged 5 cartidges for an initial test load, I primed 100. On the possibility that I'm not seating them deep enough, what's the harm in putting the uncharged cartidges back in the Lee hand primer -- empty of course -- and given them a bit more of a nudge to make sure they are seated deepn enough? Any reason why I couldn't, or shouldn't do that?

 

[captain54]

based on the possibility of not seating them far enough, before you run them back through the hand primer (which I have done before without issue) examine them and see if the primer is seated flush with or below the case and then take note of where they are after you run a couple back through the hand primer and examine to see if there is in fact a difference. This might help you rule out this as the problem or might prove that it is the problem.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Mal, Fred and Tasco have it...

 

[243winxb]

Hold a straight edge like a metal ruler across the top of the head over the primer. Flush or just slightly below the metal edge is fine. Seat the primer deeper than needed and the travel of the firing pin will be short causing a miss fire. I would guess its your hammer spring thats not strong enough for the primer. Some times firing double action will not hit the primer hard enough, but single action will. The is because on double action the hammer doesnt travel its full backward motion. CCI primers in the mag small pistol run on the large side for there diameter and can require extra force to seat then fully in some brass.

 

[Steve C]

As others have said your primer was not seated properly. This often happens to new reloaders as they worry about the warnings on crushing the primer, not realizing it takes a lot of force to do that. Tight primers can also make the inexperienced think the primer is seated fully.

Proper primer seating isn't done by depth but by feel. You seat the primer firmly until you feel it contact the bottom of the primer pocket. Enough pressure must be used to push in the primer and give it a set. Failure to have completed full contact with the bottom of the primer pocket will usually result in misfires for the reason Mal H described.

The reason most of us can tell you about this issue is that at one time we made the same mistake.

 

[baz]

More good suggestions. I'll report back after I've had a chance to check things out.

Thanks, all!

 

[Mal H]

The reason most of us can tell you about this issue is that at one time we made the same mistake.

Amen!

In the early days, I would think, "I can't believe you have to press that hard! Something's going to break." You do - it won't.

 

[baz]

Well, I'm where I can look at the rest of the first batch of 100 that I primed, and and they sure don't look like they aren't seated deep enough. Every one I've checked is below the surface of the case head. I ran two or three through the primer tool again, using as much pressure as I dared, and they were not in any deeper as a result of a second try.

In the early days, I would think, "I can't believe you have to press that hard! Something's going to break." You do - it won't.

I can relate to that, somewhat. I teach computer courses, and new students are frequently afraid to use enough force when seating memory chips, a video card, etc. Of course, they are just afraid of breaking something, not causing something to go KABOOM! Still, I've got strong hands and a strong grip, and from visual inspection, I'm not sure this -- not seating the primers deep enough -- is the problem.

So, having something of a logical, orderly, experimental mind, what I'm going to do next is load up 10 of cartridges already primed with CCI primers, and load up 10 with Winchester primers. Next time I go to the range (maybe next week) I'll fire them off and see what happens. Maybe those first two light strikes where just flukes, but 2 out of 5, when I've been successfully loading 38's with no problems, seems more than just coincidence.

Edit: I'm tempted to retract what I've written, won't. Looking more closely, while all of them are at least flush with the case head, I think I can tell that with greater pressure, they are seating a tiny, tiny, bit deeper. So, for my experiment, I'll use 10 with CCI as originally primed, 10 with CCI after running them through the primer again, and 10 new ones with WSP.

 

[ReloaderFred]

You can see if those rounds are going to fire in your gun even before you go to the range next week. Just take some of the empty primed cases and see if they will go off in your gun. After all, you're just interested in whether the primers are going to detonate at this point, so rather than load the rounds, and maybe have to pull them down later, just fire off those primers and see if they work.

Just be sure to wear eye and hearing protection and do them in the garage. They will go "pop", but not as loud as a gunshot.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[jvik]

I use CCI primers in my 38 spl's. I don't have any problems shooting them i my S&W K-Frame. I agree that is is probably a primer seating issue.

 

[tasco 74]

as for knowing if the primer is in the pocket flush i always feel each case when i take it from the autoprime... if one isn't seated flush you can feel it right away.............

 

[3rdpig]

I've had the same problem with my older model 38 bodyguard. It's fine in SA mode with CCI primers, but will often not fire 1 or 2 out of every 5 in DA mode. The primers are seated fully. Does not happen with Winchester or Federal primers. I tried a replacement stock strength spring with the same results, but the problem went away with a Wolfe extra power spring. I went back to the stock spring and Winchester primers. This was the only gun I had this problem in, my Rugers and Colt all fire the reloads with CCI primers fine.

 

[243winxb]

When my very old , well used S&W M28 started misfiring with its finely hand tuned action, this is what i found. When i went to buy Win primers(after i retired) they were out of stock. The CCI Mag primes i then loaded would not fire every time, even after turning in the strain screw on the hammer spring. The Win primers fired 100 % of the time. Win are softer then the CCI's i guess. CCI mag. primes are some what larger in dia. then others, (yes, i use mag primers for 38 target loads also),takes more seating force. I know this from 42 years of reloading and 18 years operating a gun shop. So after futher looking over the misfire problem, i noticed the nose of the firing pin had lots of wear on it from normal uses , plus some gas cutting from a few pierced primes. This made the firing pin a little on the short side. So a new strain spring and screw(the screw gets shorter because the spring does move during firing some what) were ordered along with a new firing pin. All fixed, no misfires now. A test for a Smith and Wesson, may work on other guns also<> Gun empty.
Dryfire gun and hold trigger fully to rear.
Cock hammer with thumb.
Hook a weight around the hammer (for example 3 1/2 LB min weight for 357).
The hammer must not move rearward when the gun is lifted.

 

[baz]

Well, I got to the range today, and performed my "experiment." Of the 10 with CCI primers that were from my original batch, 2 were light strikes. Of the 10 with CCI primers that I ran back through the hand primer, with greater force applied, none were light strikes. And none of the 10 I loaded with WSP were like strikes.

So I conclude that it was a combination of my priming technique (not using enough force), perhaps amplified by the CCI primers being a bit more finicky, causing the light strikes.

Thanks to all who replied. It was a great learning experience. Now I can concentrate on finding the right load, and hopefully have no more problems with the primers.

 

[Stinger]

I've used CCI for over 99% of all of my reloads. I have NEVER had one fail to ignite.

 

[W.E.G.]

I don't suppose your revolver might have some "endshake" issues?

 

[Grump]

I STRONGLY suggest you dig up some reliable information on what your firearm's hammerspring tension should be, and make sure yours is within 80% of that value. If you're at *only* 80%, up it to 90-100% of "nominal spec".

IME, a too-light FP strike still has at least double the velocity variation even when the primers are firing 100%.

 

[baz]

I've used CCI for over 99% of all of my reloads. I have NEVER had one fail to ignite.

And after making sure I was seating them with enough force, I haven't either. But based on other replies, light strikes with CCI primers are not unheard of, either.

I don't suppose your revolver might have some "endshake" issues?

I STRONGLY suggest you dig up some reliable information on what your firearm's hammerspring tension should be, and make sure yours is within 80% of that value. If you're at *only* 80%, up it to 90-100% of "nominal spec".

If I continue to have problems, I'll look into these issues. But these suggestions do seem to ignore the original context of this thread. I've never had any problems shooting commercial loads from this gun. These are my first 357 handloads, so it is more likely a problem with my handloads than the gun, don't ya' think?