.357 for Whitetail

[Rock_Steady]

Hi guys, I'm just looking for input. I have a 1984c and a Ruger GP-100 both in .357 mag and I want to hunt whitetail with both this season. Any of you do this, and if so, what type of bullet are you using? I handload, so I'm not held back by factory only stuff. Any suggestions?

-Rock

 

[R.W.Dale]

Load up a heavy as possible hardcast FP bullet and drive it as fast as possible, then go kill something.

 

[W.E.G.]

The downside of hunting big game with pistol calibers or rifles firing lightweight bullets is the likelihood of no exit wound. Even if you make a good shot (hit a vital organ), the blood trail will be scant if you fail to obtain an exit wound. Its surprising how far a deer can sometimes travel after suffering a severe mortal wound.

I think I would use a heavy bullet - 158 grain minumum. Make good shots, and hope for an exit wound.

 

[mustanger98]

Me and my Daddy... we came up with a 180gr handload; Hornady's HP/XTP over H110. In the 1894 Marlin with 5D Williams, it's sighted in to bust a clay bird at 100yds with a 6o'clock hold. It's got a pretty good punch.

I agree with the 158gr minimum.

Even if you make a good shot (hit a vital organ), the blood trail will be scant if you fail to obtain an exit wound.

I can recall lung-shooting deer with a .30 caliber 150grainer and getting the exit wound and not having a blood trail. Last fall, I tracked my deer by heading in the general direction he went and where I heard him crash. There's tracks on the ground you can see and there's tracks not on the ground that you can't see. This one buck was down 75yds away in less than 15seconds or so.

Its surprising how far a deer can sometimes travel after suffering a severe mortal wound.

My above comments said, I agree. And they go further when they're pushed. I like the whole principle of the upper-lungs/spinal shot... down and DRT in theory. A good hit that way with a heavy-loaded .357 like we're talking about should do it. But, I go back to a conversation I had with my gun dealer who's also a hunter... he said he sells a lot of those Rossi kid's rifles (.223) and they kill deer with them, but if you have a big old buck come out and he's got does on the brain, he can be real hard to kill with a .300WinMag. But then, we're right back to shot placement being the key.

 

[mustanger98]

Load up a heavy as possible hardcast FP bullet and drive it as fast as possible, then go kill something.

Check your state's hunting regulations before you hunt with hardcast. I know Georgia and Alabama don't allow it. I don't know about your states.

Help mods - Merge threads?

I second that.

 

[Clipper]

I used Winchester 145gr silvertip HPs for 30 years...

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

180gr Hornady XTP over H-110 will give you a fine deer load for both your rifle and pistol.

 

[Buzz]

Pumpkinheaver, I have used the same bullet with it's sister powder (WW296) out of a GP100 on feral hogs. It certainly performs far better than it's "paper" ballistics would indicate.

 

[mustanger98]

180gr Hornady XTP over H-110

I mentioned that load in the duplicate thread. I haven't used it in a hunting situation yet; I usually use .30-30Winchester. However, back in January, Daddy and I took the Marlin 1894 to the range and tried this .357 load for accuracy. With the Williams 5D set right, we were bustin' clay birds on the 100yd line consistently. From what I saw that day and what I'm reading in this thread, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer out to 100-125yds with it just as things sit now.

 

[eliphalet]

Another thread that seems to happen with far to much regularity with no resolve.

 

[BobMcG]

Can you keep it close?

It rather depends on the range and placement.

From a tree stand, my 6" S&W 28 took out a black bear at about 30ft with a factory Rem 158gr SP and a head shot. Didn't go anyplace but down.

Another time my 4" Dan Wesson and I took a 350lb hog at 50ft with a factory Rem 158gr HSP and a shot behind the ear. Dropped like a ton of bricks.

This was around 25 years ago and soon after I started loading my own magnum rounds (instead of just .38spl practice rounds) and haven't bought any more factory ammo, but it has worked for me.

 

[Rock_Steady]

Right, well from the GP-100, I plan on only hunting at bow ranges, basically. I feel confident with it and its open sights out to about 50 yards. The 1894c I don't feel confident at all with because a gunsmith screwed up my sights, so I'm putting a scout scope on it.

Both guns I will be "keeping it close", no doubt.

 

[mustanger98]

RS, What did a gunsmith do to your sights? If he was a gunsmith worth going to, he wouldn't have screwed them up. And a real gunsmith could probably correct the problem.

 

[pheasant slayer]

Shot placement is the key, however, I personally feel it is not enough for deer. I use my 1894 in .44 mag but limit myself to 100 yards or less. That's even pushing it in my mind.

 

[mustanger98]

Well, even Elmer Keith, who made extra-long shots on game animals, advocated getting as close as possible. And he made long shots on mule deer with .41mag, .44spl, and .44mag handguns. He also said a lot of the times he did, he was wishing he had a rifle.

So, sure, if you can shoot 'em from 50yds or less, go for it. But it helps if you give yourself some leeway (skill and rifle/ammo) to take longer shots. Dick Metcalf and a couple of other guys filmed a show... basically it was a commercial for that newfangled .308 Marlin Express... where Metcalf talked about sighting his rifle in to "shoot the pipe" so that his rifle/ammo's trajectory was always inside the approximately 10" diameter kill zone out as far as that'll work... 310yds or so for that cartridge. That's how I'm thinking too.

IMO, if we're considering that 180gr XTP in the .357mag, weightwise it's somewhere between a .44mag (200-240grs) and a .30-30 (150 and 170grs). Velocity isn't always where it's at so much as weight, ballistic coefficient, and sectional density. I'll have to check the 5th Edition Hornady manual, but IIRC, that 180grainer's loaded to run 1400-1600fps and that's humming for something that heavy in a .357 class cartridge. If a proper shot is made, it's gonna do a lot of damage. In my rifle, it's accurate enough for this job and then some. YMMV.

 

[birdbustr]

Hornady also makes the FP/XTP. Flat pointed with a smaller hollow cavity in the front than the HP/XTP. I've loaded both for my .357 handgun and they are both very consistent. The FP/XTP may give you a little more penetration and a slight delay in mushrooming.

 

[campbell]

Heavy bullet yes, but not a hollow point. For hunting with a handgun cartridge a hardcast with a big meplat is the way to go. Something along of the lines of Doubletap's 180 grain offering. For a handload, Beartooth has a 185 grain that's supposed to feed well in leverguns, and Cast Performance makes a great bullet as well.

 

[AStone]

Just putting in a subscription here to read and learn
since I now own an 1894C as a walkabout rifle that
may be pressed into deer service ...

 

[IDriveB5]

I will be using my 686 this season... 170gn Keith over a generous helping of 2400.

 

[AStone]

ID-B5,

What length is your 686?

 

[kmrcstintn]

works for my family; dad had 4" S&W 19 as a backup; switched to a 6" S&W 686 w/ red dot scope for primary/light carry; I have had several 4" and 6" revolvers for back-up...this year sees the addition of a Marlin 1894 that might or might not get scoped...depends upon dad's wants...he needs something w/ less recoil and that is what I have around for a camp rifle; the 1894 feeds and groups the 158 grainers really well...thinking about Buffalo Bore's heavy load that uses Speer Gold Dot 158's on top of a custom blend that chronos over 2,000 fps from the 18.5" barrel on the Marlin carbines!!!

 

[mustanger98]

kmrcstintn, I don't know your dad, but from the 20" barrel- mine's a bit older- this 180grainer handloaded over H110 don't seem to recoil that bad. I've got a bunch of artheritis and fused back/neck and I don't notice it, but that's me.

I really can't comment too much about scopes and red dots here. My rifle's wearing a Williams 5D. I don't get along with scopes well at all and I've never worked with a red dot. I do know a guy locally who seems to swear by red dots on handguns though. I'll have to check the regs, but I'm not even sure red dots are legal to hunt with in my area.

Oh, and for backup, make mine any of the K and N frame S&W's in .357mag or .44spl/mag. As long as it's in good shape and with my choice of grips and a nice trigger and good sights I can see.

 

[DogBonz]

it depends on the range

357 is plenty for deer at the appropriate range. My brother has taken two nice buck with his 6" 357. Both shots were between 30-40 yards and each deer dropped within 25-30 yards. Shot placement and practice are key, as is knowing your limits.

With the rifle, the 357 can generate some serious velocity, and if you do your part, the rifle will be more that enough for deer.

 

[Rock_Steady]

I had my front site (marlin factory) replaced with a williams firesight - the red fiber optic one. Well, it looks like when he tapped the dovetail out, he munged up the screws on the base - so he re-drilled and tapped them, put the firesight on - all at about a 4 degree angle from plumb. Looks terrible, won't zero. I won't be using him again. Problem is, there aren't any gunsmiths around that I can get to touch it - very difficult, they say, to unscrew someone else's screwup.

I was just gonna get a nice handgun scope, slap it on as a scout mount, and call it a day.

 

[mustanger98]

I almost posted an opinion, but then I re-read your post. It sounds like a big mess. Now I'm assuming you're talking about the screws that hold the ramp base on the barrel. I've been hearing there's not that many gunsmiths, but there's plenty of guys claiming to be gunsmiths who'll take your money.