6" .357 mag revolver for whitetail?

[mole]

Do you guys think that a 6 inch barreled .357 magnum revolver would be good enough for whitetail deer under short range conditions (40-50 yards)?

A buddy of mine wants to get one and a large reason for it is to hunt whitetail. Neither of us has tried it. While I don't doubt it is not possible and a good many people use .357 mag carbines, I personally perfer a 30/30 or .243 in order to use the least amount of force to get the job done properly. Any experiences? The hunting area is fairly dense forrest where most shots are 30-50 yards with average sized animals.

 

[m0ntels]

I asked a similar question a while back and got varying answers of course.

357 Mag hunting question

Proper bullet selection and of course shot placement seem to be key. I think in PA the minimum handgun is a 4" 357 for deer. I thought about taking mine this year, but it is just too pretty for woods duty. My 41 Blackhawk came pre-beat up, so that'll be going with me with some hardcast 220s over a healthy dose of 2400. Most of my shots are 50yds or less. It will be my first pistol hunt.

Randy

 

[warriorsociologist]

I took several whitetails in WI with a 6" S&W 686. Worked like a charm - exit wounds w/ 180gr Nosler Partitions looks the size of those made my my brother's .35 Rem. Most of my shots were < 30 yards.

 

[mustanger98]

mole:

Do you guys think that a 6 inch barreled .357 magnum revolver would be good enough for whitetail deer under short range conditions (40-50 yards)?

At the short ranges you said, it'll do it with good SoftPoints, or other hunting bullets. From what I'm hearing, I'm thinking stay away from HollowPoints.

Like warriorsociologist said about:

exit wounds w/ 180gr Nosler Partitions looks the size of those made my my brother's .35 Rem. Most of my shots were < 30 yards.

That's probably on a par with some of the better rifle performance I've seen and described in other threads.

Evidently, the law in Georgia thinks .357mag is plenty too , since they worded the law so any idiot could use a .25auto.

A buddy of mine wants to get one and a large reason for it is to hunt whitetail. Neither of us has tried it. While I don't doubt it is not possible and a good many people use .357 mag carbines, I personally perfer a 30/30 or .243 in order to use the least amount of force to get the job done properly. Any experiences? The hunting area is fairly dense forrest where most shots are 30-50 yards with average sized animals.

Hunting with handguns seems to be getting more and more popular with the added challenges of getting closer to game and having to shoot better than average to make the humane kill. When you kill a deer, you always use enough gun to do the job and while .30-30 and .243 are more than enough, so is a .357magnum revolver from close in.

One advantage to hunting with a handgun is if you're walking, your gun is holstered until needed, and therefore generally easier to get along with than the added weight of a rifle. Plus, in close quarters if somebody crawled into a thicket and came face to face with a hog...

I hunt thick cover too. I'm thinking a .357 revolver will do fine if you and your buddy do ya'll's parts.

 

[Fumbler]

It'll work fine, just practice practice practice.

It takes practice to shoot a pistol well.
It takes even more practice to shoot a pistol well in field conditions.

 

[Shootcraps]

Sure. As long as you can keep your shots on a 12 inch paper plate at the distance you intend to shoot. AND you're disciplined enough to wait for a good shot.

 

[mustanger98]

Fumbler:

It'll work fine, just practice practice practice.

It takes practice to shoot a pistol well.
It takes even more practice to shoot a pistol well in field conditions.

This brings range estimation into the mix. Distance will fool you between the range and different places in the woods. If you can a laser rangefinder and get known distances on trees, it's bound to help at short range just like with rifles at longer distances.

Then there's the question of what kind of rest can you use in the field. Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote some articles about handgun hunting- he said the rest he uses is to sit down with his back to a tree, bring his knees up and rest his wrists on his knees. Sheriff Wilson claims this is a very steady rest to use in the field. Of course, there's always rocks and trees and fenceposts, but don't count on them.

There's probably more I'm not thinking of at this point.

Shootcraps:

Sure. As long as you can keep your shots on a 12 inch paper plate at the distance you intend to shoot. AND you're disciplined enough to wait for a good shot.

Yeah. Here's another issue I didn't really think about. How many of us can put our handgun rounds in a 12" paper plate at 50yds, let alone the 10ring? Consistently, mind you; anybody can get lucky once in a while. With the above-described rest and proper trigger control and sight alignment, it is possible. I'd say you'd have to be a pretty good bullseye shooter to do it from standing on the range consistently, but then, as was said, all that changes in the field.

Not argueing with anybody; just thinking "out loud".

I just thougt of something else... you know, not all our eyes are what they used to be and some of us can't see standard sights to begin with... I just remembered that OneRaggedHole sight system. They make it for Ruger handguns (as well as for rifles) and it puts an aperture rear sight on a revolver.

http://www.oneraggedhole.com/The_RUGER_One_Hole_Sight.htm

 

[Lennyjoe]

Evidently, the law in Georgia thinks .357mag is plenty too , since they worded the law so any idiot could use a .25auto

Wow, thats a new one on me. I had to pull up the regs and read it for myself. When I started hunting in Georgia in 95 there was a 500ft lbs of energy at 100yds for handguns.

Guess times are a changing. Either that or someone bufooned the re-write.

 

[mustanger98]

Lennyjoe:

Wow, thats a new one on me. I had to pull up the regs and read it for myself. When I started hunting in Georgia in 95 there was a 500ft lbs of energy at 100yds for handguns.

Guess times are a changing. Either that or someone bufooned the re-write.

I remember that 500ft/lbs@100yds rule. I thought it was a good idea and I think .357mag and .44mag both satisfied that rule. I'm thinking .460- the .45ACP on steroids conversion kit deal- satisfies that one too, but I'm not sure. I know the game warden didn't seem to have a problem with it but he hadn't seen anybody carry one hunting either.

I think sombody "bufooned the re-write". Anyway, with the way they worded it so any centerfire handgun qualifies to deer hunt, that deal about using a .25auto was the joke around this one gun shop I don't go to now. It never was funny to me because I can just see some blithering idiot try it with disastrous results with a deer running off wounded if it was hit at all.

 

[USSR]

mole,

No problem with the .357 as a deer gun. I have taken a couple with my 6" S&W 686. I would suggest that you go to the range to determine the maximum distance at which you can hit the target reliably shooting offhand. For me, I restrict my shots to 30 yards or less.

Don

 

[Lennyjoe]

Good point USSR.

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

it wil work but it is a hard hunt you bassicly are bow hunting get with 20 yards for best affects just my oppion but it will work now a .454 will really knockem down

 

[mustanger98]

Whereas a .357mag will work at close ranges as the shooter is capable, the .454Casull will knock a basketball sized hole in 'em. I don't know that I'd go to the trouble of packing the extra weight on that one unless I was after big hogs or bear. The average Georgia Whitetail, I think the .357 will do fine with the right bullet placed right.

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

yeah but it will knowck them down
lol

 

[mustanger98]

Notice, I said:

I think the .357 will do fine with the right bullet placed right.

My favored shot, from everything I put together, is double lung/spinal. On just double lungs, they won't walk far if they're not pushed. On that plus spinal disruption, according to what I've seen and most of my sources, they go typically down in their tracks and don't get up. That's regardless of what they were shot with (.243" diameter on up regardless of case size and propelant).

On the other hand, somebody can stick with .30-30 and I've heard stories of deer doing a flip on impact and not getting up. Never actually saw that one happen though.

 

[~z]

Everyone is right, yes it will work, and yes you MUST practice to determine your effective range and MUST be deciplined to stay in that range, and you are basically bow hunting without a bow.
All that said, if your partner wants to buy a pistol largely for hunting, a larger cal may do better. I have taken deer and hogs with .357, .41, .44, and .45ACP. If I was to choose one for deer, I'd choose the .41...everytime. My intention is not to slight the .357 in the least, I have 6" and a 4" 686 and love hunting with the 6"er. But if you are gonna dig a grave, you can use a spoon or a shovel.
~z

 

[tube_ee]

Just don't scope it

If you stick with iron sights, you will be very unlikely to take a shot beyond the 50 - 75 yard clean kill range for a heavy-loaded (that's heavy in both bullet and powder) .357. The same goes for the .357 in a lever gun. The big increase in velocity extends the range out to the 100 -125 yard zone, which is about as far as most shooters can shoot well with iron sights. (All ranges are maximums, based mostly on the work of Paco Kelly. I highly recommend his ".357 Heavy" article for some good dope on hunting with the original magnum.)

Some guns don't need to be scoped. The .357 magnum is, IMHO, a gun that shouldn't be scoped. To do so would only encourage shots that are beyond the cartridge's killing range.

--Shannon

 

[mole]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm not the one that wants to use the 6" .357, my buddy is. I was trying to talk him out of it, but I guess I'll shut up now since you guys seem confident in the .357 handgun. He was going to use softpoints and/or cast lead. I assume that because of the velocity differences the same exact bullets shouldn't be used in a revolver and carbine. Am I right? Any bulllet suggestions for a carbine? We use his grandfather's old reloading press, so we can "roll our own" if need be.

His basic reasoning was that it was bow hunting except instead of shooting a heavy arrow he was shooting a lighter missle at greater speed with more energy. He reckoned that if an arrow was enough, so was a .357 handgun.

thanks,
mole

 

[Shootcraps]

I would use a heavy hollowpoint bullet for whitetail. It's a thin-skinned animal without a heavy layer of fat. You want the bullet to get in and then expand so it takes out the vitals and stays inside.

 

[mustanger98]

mole:

I'm not the one that wants to use the 6" .357, my buddy is. I was trying to talk him out of it, but I guess I'll shut up now since you guys seem confident in the .357 handgun. He was going to use softpoints and/or cast lead.

Right. It's not just us, though, who are "confident in the .357 handgun". I can recall times Dick Metcalf (Guns&Ammo, Shooting Times, etc.) talked about shooting deer with the .357mag revolver. In GA, it's illegal to use non-expanding bullets, so cast lead is out. IIRC, it's illegal to posess non-expanding bullets (cast lead and/or FMJ's) while hunting.

I assume that because of the velocity differences the same exact bullets shouldn't be used in a revolver and carbine. Am I right? Any bulllet suggestions for a carbine? We use his grandfather's old reloading press, so we can "roll our own" if need be.

Actually, if you consult the Hornady 5th Edition manual, the bullets are the same between revolver and carbine and so are some of the powder charges. Before ya'll roll your own you better check out published data and consider pressures between powders and bullets in a given burn rate and weight range.

His basic reasoning was that it was bow hunting except instead of shooting a heavy arrow he was shooting a lighter missle at greater speed with more energy. He reckoned that if an arrow was enough, so was a .357 handgun.

That is, I think, about right, but the .357 is a whole lot more advanced on the power scale than archery.

Shootcraps:

I would use a heavy hollowpoint bullet for whitetail.

Up close, that'll probably work as well as a softpoint, but I've heard good and bad about hunting with HP's.

It's a thin-skinned animal without a heavy layer of fat. You want the bullet to get in and then expand so it takes out the vitals and stays inside.

I don't know about the "stays inside" part. I've heard more about wanting the exit wound too. Inside 50yds, I'd say the .357 with any appropriate hunting bullet running at optimum speed will do it. Again, I'm leaning toward recommending softpoints, but that's just me.

 

[mole]

"it's illegal to posess non-expanding bullets (cast lead and/or FMJ's) while hunting."

I asked him about that. He says he was planning on using a drill press to make his own "hollow points." He wants to then test their expansion on water jugs and phone books. I think the drilling wouldn't give constant results. There's only one way to find out---could make for a fun afternoon.

 

[mustanger98]

I asked him about that. He says he was planning on using a drill press to make his own "hollow points." He wants to then test their expansion on water jugs and phone books. I think the drilling wouldn't give constant results. There's only one way to find out---could make for a fun afternoon.

I think you're right about the fun afternoon and the inconsistent results. If you drill out a cast lead bullet, you'll also loose some of the weight that you'll need to do any good. If ya'll try it, be sure and weigh the bullets before and after drilling to see what's lost.

For a better result with a cast lead HP, Midway sells Hornady SW/HP's and they may have one in 158gr, but I couldn't swear to that weight's availability as I don't have the catalog in front of me right now. Tell you what I'd do with the SW/HP- I'd load it to run 1000fps or so and 4.8grs of Clays will do something like that in a .357. Or, I'd just go ahead and load a SP or HP 158gr Hornady to run 1200-1300fps with H110 (cranking up the horsepower according to the Hornady 5th Edition manual) and have a more dependable load.

FWIW, I've loaded 158gr LFP's over 4.8grs (w/ .7cc Lee dipper) of Clays and had a load that reliably busted gallon jugs at 25yds from a revolver. But, while Clays fills the case, it also burns dirtier than Unique or 2400 either one. And that's a little hotter than "cowboy load"; not a deer hunting load. Go with the SP's- 158gr or heavier.

 

[Fumbler]

Or he could just buy some Hornady 158gr XTP's

As far as the exit hole thing goes, I personally would prefer an exit hole. It's 2 holes that leave a blood trail instead of one and if i had to pick between under penetration and overpenetration I'll take the overpenetration. Better to be sure you a made hole than not.

 

[mustanger98]

Or he could just buy some Hornady 158gr XTP's

While that's true, under the assumption we're now talking about factory-loaded ammo, it could also get expensive. However, IIRC, the muzzle velocity and ft/lbs is printed right there on the side of the box. They could be measured for cartridge OAL (over-all-length), tried at 25yds and 50yds, evaluated for accuracy, and then hanloads tweaked for improved accuracy if needed out to 50yds.

The problem I see with the Hornady 158gr XTP ammo I see on the shelf here is it's marked "personal defense" rather than hunting. I haven't noticed any Hornady Custom .357 SP hunting ammo. I know either one will kill, and I have opinions too, but I sometimes wonder which is best after hearing what some people say about this or that bullet design.

 

[USSR]

You want the bullet to get in and then expand so it takes out the vitals and stays inside.

You DEFINATELY want the bullet to exit, so as to bleed them out quicker as well as leave a blood trail.

Don