357 load development and casual observations

[AJC1]

I did some powder homework on some of the popular powders for 357 I have. Number nine was a surprise as I haven't cross referenced it before and Lyman was much higher than all other sources I checked. The big numbers are my self imposed max but all the source materials are present for you to determine your own. I checked rifle and pistol sections and added that data where available. This is 158 jacketed data.

 

[barnfrog]

.... Lyman was much higher than all other sources I checked.

I have found that to be the case most of the time. The one exception seems to be Speer. Their max loads are often higher than Lyman's.

 

[AJC1]

I have found that to be the case most of the time. The one exception seems to be Speer. Their max loads are often higher than Lyman's.

I don't believe anyone would publish dangerous loads so even at the top if your in a book, can't be that crazy.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Tells me if you want SW-HP to perform well in a .357 revolver, use a standard small rifle primer and a longer than 4” barrel. There’s a difference between what will work and what works best. He was on the right track; he just got off the train before it reached the station.

Or autocomp with a standard primer. It does over drive 125s though.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Or autocomp with a standard primer. It does over drive 125s though.

Interesting. I have seen Autocomp on the shelf recently. Don’t recall how much. It’s one of those powders I haven’t got round to yet.

 

[barnfrog]

I don't believe anyone would publish dangerous loads so even at the top if your in a book, can't be that crazy.

Start low and work up still applies, though. I was able to take H110 and 2400 up to published max loads, but AA #9 started to give sticky extraction a couple tenths of a grain below max in the same gun. It's a Ruger so I might have been OK to load at max, but I wasn't going to chance it for the sake of a couple hundred fps.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Start low and work up still applies, though. I was able to take H110 and 2400 up to published max loads, but AA #9 started to give sticky extraction a couple tenths of a grain below max in the same gun. It's a Ruger so I might have been OK to load at max, but I wasn't going to chance it for the sake of a couple hundred fps.

Be careful with that advice. I got flamed pretty good before for suggesting the same is true of lower loads. Some starting loads in Hornady’s are way below Lyman’s and Speer’s. Same thing applies as always: comparable bullets, seating depth, primer, etc.

 

[AJC1]

Start low and work up still applies, though. I was able to take H110 and 2400 up to published max loads, but AA #9 started to give sticky extraction a couple tenths of a grain below max in the same gun. It's a Ruger so I might have been OK to load at max, but I wasn't going to chance it for the sake of a couple hundred fps.

I was at 14.9 with no problems. I don't intend to shoot that hot and will dial back to 14.1 which still shot well. That's still considerably above Hornaday by grains not tenths.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Interesting. I have seen Autocomp on the shelf recently. Don’t recall how much. It’s one of those powders I haven’t got round to yet.

I happened on it when the reloading store I frequent dropped a pound and spilled a few grains. They sold the rest for 10 dollars. I was impressive with light bullets in 357 and my Nagant pistol.
The Nagant was more impressive because of the velocity I got with a light charge in the sealed cylinder.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I happened on it when the reloading store I frequent dropped a pound and spilled a few grains. They sold the rest for 10 dollars. I was impressive with light bullets in 357 and my Nagant pistol.
The Nagant was more impressive because of the velocity I got with a light charge in the sealed cylinder.

Looks like Winchester came out with it in late ‘07, spent a year testing and working up data, then finally introduced it in ‘09 positioned to compete with Alliant Power Pistol. Made to fill compensators with out-gas to help manage slide inertia recoil in comp’d race guns. Probably a real dandy in an AR carbine with a gas system built for heavy pistol cartridges. Not sure what it will do in sealed chamber and a long barrel like a bolt or lever action carbine. Might be interesting. Thanks!

 

[Bfh_auto]

Looks like Winchester came out with it in late ‘07, spent a year testing and working up data, then finally introduced it in ‘09 positioned to compete with Alliant Power Pistol. Made to fill compensators with out-gas to help manage slide inertia recoil in comp’d race guns. Probably a real dandy in an AR carbine with a gas system built for heavy pistol cartridges. Not sure what it will do in sealed chamber and a long barrel like a bolt or lever action carbine. Might be interesting. Thanks!

I use it in place of blue dot. Obviously not grain for grain. But for similar power loads.
I never tried it on my Rossi because it gets a steady diet of H110 and 180 grain cast.
I could load a few next time I go to the range. I have a 4", 6.5", and 20" 357.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I use it in place of blue dot. Obviously not grain for grain. But for similar power loads.
I never tried it on my Rossi because it gets a steady diet of H110 and 180 grain cast.
I could load a few next time I go to the range. I have a 4", 6.5", and 20" 357.

I’ll check this weekend in Micanopy and see if they still have a jug. I’ll try a pound just out of curiosity. Unless they don’t have it or it’s more than Unique…. Then I’ll satisfy my curiosity reading your post.

 

[DMW1116]

Minimum charges of W231 and CFE Pistol in a 357 Magnum case seem to be the ticket for my Blackhawk. I tried some today with 125 grain cast bullets and both put three shots nearly touching and a fourth shot I pulled off just a bit. Minimum charges of each powder also shoot 148 grain wadcutters very well from 357 Magnum cases.

 

[DMW1116]

Obligatory pics. Minimum and maximum charge of CFEP. Also some higher charges of HS-6.

 

[AJC1]

Obligatory pics. Minimum and maximum charge of CFEP. Also some higher charges of HS-6.View attachment 1103469View attachment 1103470

That's funny we just got back and shot our last dirty bird target like you have on the bottom. I shot 8.4 Silhouette and 8.8 true blue back to back and Silhouette performed better.

 

[DMW1116]

These are 125 gr Gallant bullets. I think the minimum CFEP charge is 6.6 grains. That group will be tough to beat. I’m guessing 1200 fps. Hodgden says 1375 but that’s a 10” barrel.

if it weren’t for the flier in the red, the bottom three shots marked “2” would be a great load. It probably is anyway. I’ll have to have a shoot off at some point.

The W231 group was only 1/4” bigger. It isn’t much faster than a hot 38+P load though. It might be better for long range as it never goes supersonic.

The irony of a copper fouling eraser powder working well in cast loads isn’t lost on me.

 

[DMW1116]

I like those Dirty Bird targets. I usually use them for rifle but just grabbed one for the last 2 loads of CFEP. I found out they have the right outer diameter for 50 yard bullseye. I hope the white spots don’t pull my aim off.

 

[AJC1]

I like those Dirty Bird targets. I usually use them for rifle but just grabbed one for the last 2 loads of CFEP. I found out they have the right outer diameter for 50 yard bullseye. I hope the white spots don’t pull my aim off.

I don't care for them myself. A black target in low light indoors with a peep is not great. I use a ton of the 3" stick on dots because my peeps are black and it's much easier to hit. I have some nail polish that is chartreuse that I use on my front pistol sight if I was shooting a lot of black targets I would paint the front post.

 

[DMW1116]

I had some orange paint marker on my Blackhawk. It’s worn off now. I need to do a proper job with some white then orange paint or nail polish.

Would there be any point in trying some 158 grain SWC bullets? I’m getting good accuracy with these and the 148 grain HBWC but I feel like 357 and 38 were meant for the heavier 158 grain bullets?

 

[AJC1]

I had some orange paint marker on my Blackhawk. It’s worn off now. I need to do a proper job with some white then orange paint or nail polish.

Would there be any point in trying some 158 grain SWC bullets? I’m getting good accuracy with these and the 148 grain HBWC but I feel like 357 and 38 were meant for the heavier 158 grain bullets?

Do what makes you happy. Light bullets means ringers in metallic Silhouette. If your just poking holes in paper load whatever makes small groups.

 

[DMW1116]

I’ve loaded up the last 357 Magnum test loads for the 125 grain Gallant cast bullets and also loaded a previous load of 125 grain XTP & HS-6 just to confirm it and check pressure signs. It shot really well but pressure seemed high with some partially flattened primers. Now I’ve learned I might have been overly cautious and the primers looked a lot like factory full power loads.

After the last test batch I have good accuracy so now I’m looking for velocity.

 

[AJC1]

Ran the full loadable range of red dot from 3.0-3.8 in 38 cases with the 154 noe. 3.0 was accurate very powder puff and had unburnt powder. 3.4 was perfect good burn and accurate. Both +p loads 3.6 and 3.8 just started opening up. I was happy that I had loaded up a bunch extra at 3.4 for junior he liked them fine and I'll just call it a lucky guess.

 

[DMW1116]

I tested the rest yesterday. It was a mixed bag. The 2400 loads with 125 grain cast produced some tolerable groups that deserve further exploration. The best was about 1.75” at 25 yards. Looks like I’ll be saving my meager supply for 158 grain bullets. I only have about half a pound left.

HS-6 appears to just not be for these bullets. They shoot and shoot fast but don’t group any better than my 9mm service pistols. Nothing wrong with that but I’ve come to expect better from the Blackhawk.

HS-6 does work well pushing 125 grain XTP bullets. The initial test load grouped about 1.25” and these did a little bigger at 1.7”. I plan to keep that load in the books but I don’t have any more 125 gr XTPs.

At this point I’ve settled on CFE Pistol for accuracy and velocity in 357 cases with these 125 grain cast bullets. The CFEP max load deserves some exploration too. I likely pulled that shot high above.

If I want just a little more accuracy and a little less velocity the W231 load and 125 grain bullets works well, but only the minimum charge. Things fell apart at higher charges.

2400 and 158 grain XTPs have beaten everything else, even the wadcutters, for accuracy. Velocity/energy speaks for itself with a near max charge of 14.1 grains.

A run of 38 Special and Silhouette powder is in order. This combo pushed the 125 gr cast through one hole at 10 yards but hasn’t been tried at 25.

The wadcutters in a 357 case is still a favorite load but the local supply is gone and I have just enough for a single round of slow fire at 25 yards just to see how it goes.

For my intended purpose of long range handgunning, beyond 50 yards, the CFEP load seems the best compromise. Thanks to those who suggested trying a copper fouling eraser powder with lead bullets.

I’m on the hunt for some Blue Dot but will need to see if it works in 357. I’ve not thought about Red Dot but it seems intriguing.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I tested the rest yesterday. It was a mixed bag. The 2400 loads with 125 grain cast produced some tolerable groups that deserve further exploration. The best was about 1.75” at 25 yards. Looks like I’ll be saving my meager supply for 158 grain bullets. I only have about half a pound left.

HS-6 appears to just not be for these bullets. They shoot and shoot fast but don’t group any better than my 9mm service pistols. Nothing wrong with that but I’ve come to expect better from the Blackhawk.

HS-6 does work well pushing 125 grain XTP bullets. The initial test load grouped about 1.25” and these did a little bigger at 1.7”. I plan to keep that load in the books but I don’t have any more 125 gr XTPs.

At this point I’ve settled on CFE Pistol for accuracy and velocity in 357 cases with these 125 grain cast bullets. The CFEP max load deserves some exploration too. I likely pulled that shot high above.

If I want just a little more accuracy and a little less velocity the W231 load and 125 grain bullets works well, but only the minimum charge. Things fell apart at higher charges.

2400 and 158 grain XTPs have beaten everything else, even the wadcutters, for accuracy. Velocity/energy speaks for itself with a near max charge of 14.1 grains.

A run of 38 Special and Silhouette powder is in order. This combo pushed the 125 gr cast through one hole at 10 yards but hasn’t been tried at 25.

The wadcutters in a 357 case is still a favorite load but the local supply is gone and I have just enough for a single round of slow fire at 25 yards just to see how it goes.

For my intended purpose of long range handgunning, beyond 50 yards, the CFEP load seems the best compromise. Thanks to those who suggested trying a copper fouling eraser powder with lead bullets.

I’m on the hunt for some Blue Dot but will need to see if it works in 357. I’ve not thought about Red Dot but it seems intriguing.

If you can’t find Blue Dot, Accurate No.7 is also good for light jacketed bullets in the Blackhawk. It is in mine, at least.

 

[AJC1]

I tested the rest yesterday. It was a mixed bag. The 2400 loads with 125 grain cast produced some tolerable groups that deserve further exploration. The best was about 1.75” at 25 yards. Looks like I’ll be saving my meager supply for 158 grain bullets. I only have about half a pound left.

HS-6 appears to just not be for these bullets. They shoot and shoot fast but don’t group any better than my 9mm service pistols. Nothing wrong with that but I’ve come to expect better from the Blackhawk.

HS-6 does work well pushing 125 grain XTP bullets. The initial test load grouped about 1.25” and these did a little bigger at 1.7”. I plan to keep that load in the books but I don’t have any more 125 gr XTPs.

At this point I’ve settled on CFE Pistol for accuracy and velocity in 357 cases with these 125 grain cast bullets. The CFEP max load deserves some exploration too. I likely pulled that shot high above.

If I want just a little more accuracy and a little less velocity the W231 load and 125 grain bullets works well, but only the minimum charge. Things fell apart at higher charges.

2400 and 158 grain XTPs have beaten everything else, even the wadcutters, for accuracy. Velocity/energy speaks for itself with a near max charge of 14.1 grains.

A run of 38 Special and Silhouette powder is in order. This combo pushed the 125 gr cast through one hole at 10 yards but hasn’t been tried at 25.

The wadcutters in a 357 case is still a favorite load but the local supply is gone and I have just enough for a single round of slow fire at 25 yards just to see how it goes.

For my intended purpose of long range handgunning, beyond 50 yards, the CFEP load seems the best compromise. Thanks to those who suggested trying a copper fouling eraser powder with lead bullets.

I’m on the hunt for some Blue Dot but will need to see if it works in 357. I’ve not thought about Red Dot but it seems intriguing.

I've been looking for blue Dot for a while. I'm very interested in your observations when you get a chance to use it.