357 load development and casual observations
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GeoDudeFlorida
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Yeah, still waiting for Speer and Sierra to get the word that the plandemic shortage is over.
Not that Hornady doesn’t make some decent bullets but they’re a bit proud of them.
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AJC1
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One of my initial goals in 357 was to find a mag load that I could shoot often but still had good numbers and was cheap. 8.8 grains of true blue and a cast 158 is decently fast and cost effective. I got that powder thinking it was a lot closer to blue dot. I haven't been able to get BD but the idea at least in my mind is its the efficient mag load.... right around 10 grains is where it starts to get resource hogging. true blue goes up to 9.8 but I've never gone above start.
I’m of a similar mind for the CFEP load and 125 grain cast. It’s right around 1200-1300 fps and shot great and was quite pleasant. The max load shot pretty well but the minimum load was great and under 7 grains, giving me an even thousand per pound of powder.
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AJC1
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Any idea what case fill that load gives. Kinda trying to get more knowledgeable on doing that myself and then figuring out the normalizing number which eliminates powder forward/back testing. For rifle 80% seems the good point up to 95 ish but I don't have a basis to work from in pistol.
I went through the 110 grain hollow point and 21 grains of H110 phase.
It was an accurate fire ball.
A friend was butchering a cow and shot it wrong. It was running circles in the barnyard. So my brother grabbed my pistol from the truck and dropped it. Our friends Dad drawled "what is that an aught six?"
I about died laughing. Needless to say it boomed.
Do check the throats and bore, Otherwise you are wasting your time and money. Be advised you can rent a cylinder reamer.
Assuming 0.358" diameter will work out for you, head on over to Roze distribution and get some 148 grain hollow base wadcutters. Somewhere around 2.6 to 3.0 grains of Bullseye or W-231/HP-38 should do fine in .38 special brass. Typically this is a very hard to beat round.
If you need 0.359" diameter I've been shooting the Brazos 148 grain button nose wadcutter and they ain't half bad. Plus the price is right.
Starline for brass if needed and any small pistol primer will do. Haven't tried Ginex yet but Fiocchi primers have been fine for me.
Oh, and pick up some stainless chamber brushes from Brownells. In a cordless drill they make shooting .38 in a .357 painless. I do best running them dry and then patching with solvent (Don't use them in your barrel!!!). Shooting both lead and copper I'd be looking to get that bore perfectly clean. That might take more time and effort than you assume. Following up with a 100 strokes of JB bore paste wouldn't hurt.
Come on back when you want something for hunting. You can do okay with a 158 grain gas checked semi-wadcutter or 170 grain "Keith" style. I'm using Rim Rock for them. Now we will be talking 4227/2400/H110/296 powder and in some cases, small pistol magnum primers.
I'd only use 125 grain for two-legged critters, and even then, I'd rather go heavier.
Assuming 0.358" diameter will work out for you, head on over to Roze distribution and get some 148 grain hollow base wadcutters. Somewhere around 2.6 to 3.0 grains of Bullseye or W-231/HP-38 should do fine in .38 special brass. Typically this is a very hard to beat round.
If you need 0.359" diameter I've been shooting the Brazos 148 grain button nose wadcutter and they ain't half bad. Plus the price is right.
Starline for brass if needed and any small pistol primer will do. Haven't tried Ginex yet but Fiocchi primers have been fine for me.
Oh, and pick up some stainless chamber brushes from Brownells. In a cordless drill they make shooting .38 in a .357 painless. I do best running them dry and then patching with solvent (Don't use them in your barrel!!!). Shooting both lead and copper I'd be looking to get that bore perfectly clean. That might take more time and effort than you assume. Following up with a 100 strokes of JB bore paste wouldn't hurt.
Come on back when you want something for hunting. You can do okay with a 158 grain gas checked semi-wadcutter or 170 grain "Keith" style. I'm using Rim Rock for them. Now we will be talking 4227/2400/H110/296 powder and in some cases, small pistol magnum primers.
I'd only use 125 grain for two-legged critters, and even then, I'd rather go heavier.
I’ve used Hornady HBWC with great success in 357 cases. They wouldn’t do nearly as well from 38 cases. They’re one of my favorite loads for target shooting.
Since I’m only punching paper I’m using the 125 grain cast bullets for now. I’d do a lot of things different for hunting.
Since I’m only punching paper I’m using the 125 grain cast bullets for now. I’d do a lot of things different for hunting.
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AJC1
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Loaded a test round with the Lyman 358429 just to see where seating to the crimp groove got me and what it would look like. Well at 1.665 it's verrrrry long and exactly what I expected. The case is trimed to 1.280 about exactly as I can manage. The Lyman manual calls for 1.553 which would be crimping into the top driving band far above the crimp groove. My math says the trim length for Sammi 1.590 max oal utilizing the crimp groove would be 1.205. That's closer to 38 than 357.
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AJC1
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BRatigan
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I have a load of 6.9 grains of CFEP under a 125 grain XTP (I know it's not cast), and the case fill is 49.5%. Its shoots about 1100fps. Very accurate out of my 4.75 inch El Patron.
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AJC1
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Made a dummy of 38 and I eyeballed it and came up with 1.535. Checked the book and their posted 1.537. Looks like I found a winner. 38 on the left.
I’ve started testing the MBC bullets I got last year. I have 2400 and CFEP loaded up for tomorrow. Seated right the crimp groove they are a little long at 1.595-1.600 inches. They chamber fine so we’ll see what happens. I also have some FMJ flat nosed 158 grain bullets over Accurate #9. I’ll try 3 and see how they do.
The FMJ load shot pretty good though I just tried it off hand.
CFEP didn’t do so well with this bullet. The bullets were centered but scattered around a 3” pattern. For reference a good load in this gun will shoot under 1.5”.
The 2400 loads have the most promise. The second and third increments were pretty good. The second had three shots touching with the fourth off to the left. The third increment was better but was around 2”. I think the 2nd increment was a pulled shot. I’ve done the same with other loads. Three touching and a fourth off a little.
CFEP didn’t do so well with this bullet. The bullets were centered but scattered around a 3” pattern. For reference a good load in this gun will shoot under 1.5”.
The 2400 loads have the most promise. The second and third increments were pretty good. The second had three shots touching with the fourth off to the left. The third increment was better but was around 2”. I think the 2nd increment was a pulled shot. I’ve done the same with other loads. Three touching and a fourth off a little.
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AJC1
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I didn't see your load data but 2400 for 150 ish is happy between 13.5 and 14 grains.
Max charge from my manual was below 14 for this weight. The best groups were just under 13 grains. The 0.3 grain increments I was using might be too big. Group 1 was about the same as a decent factory load. Somewhere between 2 and 3 is probably optimal. Charge 2 is very good if that flier was me pulling a shot; less than 1” at 25 yards. If not there is still room around load 3 to investigate.
I doubt there is often much similarity between jacketed and cast but the best groups with a 158 grain XTP started just under 13 also. They were really stable for three different charge weights.
I doubt there is often much similarity between jacketed and cast but the best groups with a 158 grain XTP started just under 13 also. They were really stable for three different charge weights.
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AJC1
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Tested my 13.7 grain load from the Lyman manual which indicated they used a 4" and my load was 116fps slower. I'm guessing a universal receiver doesn't have a cylinder gap. Still 1210 isn't shabby just not the 1326 they claim.
The Lyman cast manual has a max of 14 for a 155 grain cast but 13.5 for 158. I doubt 3 grains makes that much difference but these were bullets are a little larger in diameter so they may hit pressure before slightly smaller ones. They mic at 0.359-0.360”.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Seating depth can make a difference as well. How much bullet is in the case will change depending on the alloy, too. Those are usually very small differences but I guess there could be a magic combination that’s way over pressure.
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AJC1
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I'm in a weird spot for testing because my bullet is not officially listed. The shape is 158 but the weight is 154 powdercoated. Lube and gas checks add weight and I don't so I use book maxes and leave the extra on the table as a saftey factor. I do the same with oal when I seat longer than book numbers I stick to book max.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Well, if you know the case length and the bullet length you can subtract the case length from the overall length and then subtract what’s left from the total bullet length and that will tell you how much of bullet is in the case.
fxvr5
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It does.
Right but I was thinking of the amount of the Lyman bullet in the case. Maybe Lyman has the bullet length in the manual. I’ve never looked.
GeoDudeFlorida
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It depends on the edition. Check the alloy tested, too. Higher tin will have better fill and that can add a couple thousandths to the length of the cooled bullet vs. a lower tin alloy. Same thing goes for higher antimony alloys. The editions all have testing specifications and most include cast bullet specifications as well. Hope this helps.
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